Real American Freestyle

[wrestlingfan22]

1 minute ago, MPhillips said:

Rokfin?

Rokfin is included as part of FoxNation? Or are you making a joke

[MPhillips]

2 minutes ago, wrestlingfan22 said:

Rokfin is included as part of FoxNation? Or are you making a joke

I honestly wasn't sure what you were implying so I asked.

That description matches ROKFIN to a T minus the lack of wrestling, mentioned...

[wrestlingfan22]

1 minute ago, MPhillips said:

I honestly wasn't sure what you were implying so I asked.

That description matches ROKFIN to a T minus the lack of wrestling, mentioned...

Oh, got it. I was talking about FoxNation. Don't get me started on the non-wrestling accounts on Rokfin

[1032004]

Looks like you can do a one month free trial and normal monthly cost is $7.99 or $60 for the year 

Edited 15 hours ago by 1032004

[BruceyB]

19 minutes ago, wrestlingfan22 said:

So you have to pay for a streaming service that is almost entirely political* (with some documentaries and other shows) and provides no other wrestling-specific value to wrestling fans, just to watch these cards?

 

*not commenting either way on that because I don't want to open that can of worms

You pay a few bucks to watch the event, and cancel the next day. I'd think of it more like a very cheap PPV.

Man, people love complaining about having to spend a few bucks to watch a wrestling event. 

[1032004]

1 minute ago, BruceyB said:

You pay a few bucks to watch the event, and cancel the next day. I'd think of it more like a very cheap PPV.

Man, people love complaining about having to spend a few bucks to watch a wrestling event. 

FoxNation does seem like a much better value than Rokfin, at least 

[wrestlingfan22]

4 minutes ago, BruceyB said:

You pay a few bucks to watch the event, and cancel the next day. I'd think of it more like a very cheap PPV.

Man, people love complaining about having to spend a few bucks to watch a wrestling event. 

I get that, but I would rather it just be a PPV at that point. The more hoops I have to jump through to the more apathetic I get. My comment was more about the casual wrestling fan. Is someone who doesn't care that much about freestyle going to do all that just to watch these cards? 

Also, from a booking perspective, how often are the cards going to be, and how long is each one going to take? If they are monthly and will be archived, I feel like that could be a worthy $ trade-off for wrestling fans to subscribe. Card length matters also because it starts Saturday at 7. Is it going to run till midnight? Or can we expect it to wrap earlier than that? Overall, while it is still an unknown product, I am skeptical about the streaming choice but hope that it all goes well for wrestling's sake. 

One thing I am curious about is the people already subscribed to FoxNation. if RAF can get them interested in wrestling, that could be a large untapped audience. I just know nothing about how many people/demographics of FoxNation subscribers. 

[MPhillips]

27 minutes ago, BruceyB said:

Man, people love complaining

Even about complaining...

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

1 hour ago, Ragu said:

Bill O'Reilly on the mic?

Sean Hannity.

[BruceyB]

24 minutes ago, wrestlingfan22 said:

I get that, but I would rather it just be a PPV at that point. The more hoops I have to jump through to the more apathetic I get. My comment was more about the casual wrestling fan. Is someone who doesn't care that much about freestyle going to do all that just to watch these cards? 

Also, from a booking perspective, how often are the cards going to be, and how long is each one going to take? If they are monthly and will be archived, I feel like that could be a worthy $ trade-off for wrestling fans to subscribe. Card length matters also because it starts Saturday at 7. Is it going to run till midnight? Or can we expect it to wrap earlier than that? Overall, while it is still an unknown product, I am skeptical about the streaming choice but hope that it all goes well for wrestling's sake. 

One thing I am curious about is the people already subscribed to FoxNation. if RAF can get them interested in wrestling, that could be a large untapped audience. I just know nothing about how many people/demographics of FoxNation subscribers. 

I can understand that. At the end of the day, RAF is not going to create any notable influx of new wrestling fans. Best case scenario it finds enough stability that it is another event for wrestling fans to enjoy. The most likely scenario is that it folds after a few events with little to no support from the wrestling community. I can tell you right now, I'm not going to be planning my Saturday nights around an exhibition wrestling league.

Wrestling will never be a sport that attracts non-wrestling fans. It's too nuanced and hard to follow, even for very knowledgeable fans. During the Fargo finals JD Rader was probably wrong more often than right when predicting the outcomes of coaches challenges. 

[Mr. PeanutButter]

1 hour ago, BruceyB said:

I can understand that. At the end of the day, RAF is not going to create any notable influx of new wrestling fans. Best case scenario it finds enough stability that it is another event for wrestling fans to enjoy. The most likely scenario is that it folds after a few events with little to no support from the wrestling community. I can tell you right now, I'm not going to be planning my Saturday nights around an exhibition wrestling league.

Wrestling will never be a sport that attracts non-wrestling fans. It's too nuanced and hard to follow, even for very knowledgeable fans. During the Fargo finals JD Rader was probably wrong more often than right when predicting the outcomes of coaches challenges. 

Damn bro. You sure are a downer this Monday 

[Ragu]

2 hours ago, BruceyB said:

Wrestling will never be a sport that attracts non-wrestling fans. It's too nuanced and hard to follow, even for very knowledgeable fans.

[CHROMEBIRD]

2 hours ago, BruceyB said:

Wrestling will never be a sport that attracts non-wrestling fans. It's too nuanced and hard to follow, even for very knowledgeable fans. During the Fargo finals JD Rader was probably wrong more often than right when predicting the outcomes of coaches challenges. 

Yeah, I agree with this. The last thing casuals want to see is a close but banal technical match won on criteria or something. Fans crave

1. Spectacle
2. Attachment
3. Stakes

So I don't see why RAF (or any other pro freestyle league) feels like they need to adhere so closely to UWW's format. Why not experiment and come up with something different but close enough to International Freestyle but with broader appeal? 

Fans are willing to sit through 100+ minute stretches of soccer players frivolously swatting the ball around just to catch a goaaaaal. Or a BJJ guy sitting on his ass like an idiot all match, only to finally see someone get caught in a submission. Why not encourage the same for wrestling? If casuals want to see wrestlers get pinned or tossed on their head, why not make slams legal, allow wrestlers to celebrate or even trash talk during breakages, or offer cash bonuses for pins? 

Also give casuals a reason to attach themselves to wresters. Create teams or play up wrestlers' affiliation with a city, region, or club that fans can get behind. Pro teams gain instant traction because a lot of fans, even if they aren't real fans of the sport, want to rep their city. 

And as others have mentioned before, there needs to eventually be real skin in the game for competitors. Title belts, a point system leading to a title, something. It would also help if the stakes were global and not just American as some might assume from the league name. And I'm not a big fan of sports betting, but that's another way of growing interest. People will bet on anything these days.

I know this is all easier said than done, and next month's matches are just the first event. Just that, big picture, there's no need to be so strictly guardrailed by UWW's rules and that leagues have some interesting levers they can pull grow interest

[BruceyB]

1 hour ago, Mr. PeanutButter said:

Damn bro. You sure are a downer this Monday 

I'm just not going to go on pretending like wrestling is a few tweaks away from unlocking some massive fan base that was being gatekept from the sport due to a lack of accessibility, promotion, or coverage.

Take three of the most popular sports in the Olympic games: track, swimming, and gymnastics. These sports receive massing viewership and interest once every 4 years. When was the last time you watched any of these sports on TV outside of the Olympics? I can be locked in on any of them for the games, but once they're over, I'm no longer following any of these sports, despite an enjoyable viewing experience. There just isn't enough excitement in the results for me outside of the magnitude of the Olympics.

Now take a viewer that isn't a fan of wrestling, but watches the coverage during the Olympics, or even a casual wrestling fan that watches the NCAA finals every year.. there is a massive gap to cross to convince these types of fans that an exhibition that holds absolutely zero weight in the sport is worth their time.

[Truzzcat]

Think about it as paying 8 dollars to support wrestling. Unfortunately, it takes money to grow things. Without events turning a profit at some point or at least getting close a sustainable professional league will not exist.

[Mr. PeanutButter]

32 minutes ago, BruceyB said:

I'm just not going to go on pretending like wrestling is a few tweaks away from unlocking some massive fan base that was being gatekept from the sport due to a lack of accessibility, promotion, or coverage.

Take three of the most popular sports in the Olympic games: track, swimming, and gymnastics. These sports receive massing viewership and interest once every 4 years. When was the last time you watched any of these sports on TV outside of the Olympics? I can be locked in on any of them for the games, but once they're over, I'm no longer following any of these sports, despite an enjoyable viewing experience. There just isn't enough excitement in the results for me outside of the magnitude of the Olympics.

Now take a viewer that isn't a fan of wrestling, but watches the coverage during the Olympics, or even a casual wrestling fan that watches the NCAA finals every year.. there is a massive gap to cross to convince these types of fans that an exhibition that holds absolutely zero weight in the sport is worth their time.

I think I mostly agree but I feel more optimistic about making wrestling a little less fringe. Maybe not mainstream level but I do think the sport has potential to be a lot more popular. After all, it is significantly more popular in many other countries. 

As to your other question, being a former swimmer, I actually watch swimming more often than wrestling. Having recently discovered a love for sprinting, I have started to follow track pretty regularly 

[CHROMEBIRD]

10 minutes ago, Mr. PeanutButter said:

As to your other question, being a former swimmer, I actually watch swimming more often than wrestling. Having recently discovered a love for sprinting, I have started to follow track pretty regularly 

What the? Another one??

[Mr. PeanutButter]

11 minutes ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

What the? Another one??

Ed Ruth was a swimmer too

BigRedFan who posts here has a pretty fast 100 free time as well. 

It's a great sport. Very zenful. You should try!

[Dark Energy]

Hoping this works  and is successful.  Nervous about boring matches though.   What is being done to promote exciting matches?  Bout of the night awards?  Guys that are boring don’t get invited back?  
 

Want guys not afraid to lose once in a while.  Guys that want to put on a show.  

[1032004]

Real Woods and Lance Palmer were on Fox and Friends

 

 

 

[1032004]

On 7/15/2025 at 7:17 PM, 1032004 said:

 

They probably won’t be succesful either but I think Claw has put the most thought into their league so far.  New rules trying to make it more exciting, and a team aspect even including a draft.  I know you’re the brain so maybe you still have some tricks up your sleeve, but so far all RAF has done is pay the most money to get the biggest names, and announce that the first venue will be at a school that just cut wrestling.
 

 

CLAW also got legit social media influencers involved like Cayden Henschel and Georgio Poullas.  They may not have the money that RAF does, but they have the best ideas IMO

[Doublehalf]

2 hours ago, 1032004 said:

Real Woods and Lance Palmer were on Fox and Friends

 

 

 

I think it's great wrestling and the event in particular is getting this exposure. 
 

What I find odd is how it seems like wrestling is almost being politically commandeered or owned by right wing politics. I don't say that to start a debate but just seeing how things have played out with the prez at NCAAs and the spectacle that was made on his entrance, Bo Nickal and his outward political nature, Dan Gable stumping for trump in Iowa and just the kind of people that seem to be involved lately even at a youth wrestling level. Just never really saw that in other fringe sports before to my knowledge. Maybe it's just the nature of wrestling being more of a blue collar sport and the rural/urban divide but it's just a weird thing to watch happen in real time... 

Maybe it's always been a sport with the same people but the attention it gets from folks on the right side of the spectrum just seems to be increasing and more in your face than it ever was:.

[BigRedFan]

5 hours ago, Mr. PeanutButter said:

BigRedFan who posts here has a pretty fast 100 free time as well. 

"Had."  (off-topic:  I did a swim workout last week with an Olympic bronze medalist from the 1976 Olympics)

Everyone should follow Mondo Duplantis, possibly the most dominant pole vaulter of all time, and sheer beauty in motion.  Was it the Diamond League that put Duplantis (WR PV) against Warholm (WR 400H) in a 100m match race?  Great spectacle, and clever promoting.

[BigRedFan]

37 minutes ago, Doublehalf said:

Maybe it's just the nature of wrestling being more of a blue collar sport and the rural/urban divide but it's just a weird thing to watch happen in real time... 

Maybe it's always been a sport with the same people but the attention it gets from folks on the right side of the spectrum just seems to be increasing and more in your face than it ever was:.

I was disappointed to see Yianni and Rob Koll visit the WH with (not all of) the other NCAA champions and take a photo with Trump.  Same reaction when Vito went over to Trump after winning his second NCAA tournament.  Neither of them were "blue collar" raised, nor from a rural area (Rochester and Long Island?  Ha!).