All this transgender athlete fuss lately. . .

[Scouts Honor]

1 minute ago, 1032004 said:

wait, all these ellipses…

are you @LJB?

lol.. he and i had many a battle...

I always use that... waiting for YOU to make the connection

it's like your joey from friends

[Scouts Honor]

this is a non wrestling topic

so... probably belongs on the other forum.. 

but yeah.

relevance.

[scourge165]

2 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

i know... you don't understand much of anything

no problem

i can explain it for you

50 + 1 means 51%

majority

again. go back to what YOU think she was talking about. maybe she was.

but now, take another step. if you think gay marriage is confusing to kids

talk about a girl having to have a boy in her restroom or locker room.

EVEN YOU can understand that  confusion i hope. 

Wow Jimmy! That's insightful! 

 

I think that YOU think you made a point there, but you didn't. 

I don't think gay marriage is "confusing to kids," particularly as she was talking about HS students. 

 

I do think it's kinda cute how you came back here after denying trans people were breaking the law in Algeria, puffed out and posted that like you were making a point!

 

I'm not getting sucked into guessing what the meaning behind a post YOU MADE was, alright Jimmy?

[scourge165]

5 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

you and 1090129u3029u3094u were the one who said gay marriage.

 

 

I did? 

Huh...I don't recall doing that, but alright.

 

6 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

wow. so b/c it's not about athletics it doesn't fit.

You mean in a thread specifically dedicated to trans and DSD participation in sports?

Yeah, for that reason.

 

8 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

get a brain.

You genuinely sound and write like a teenage girl. 

wow.... b/c like...it's about the topic it doesn't fit(and expression no women has EVER said to you incidentally). 

omg like....get a brain!

 

Did you just snort like 5 Adderall and think that post was really some poignant stamps on the discussion that cleared everything up? 

You aren't even remotely close to the topic. 

 

 

[scourge165]

15 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

this is a non wrestling topic

so... probably belongs on the other forum.. 

but yeah.

relevance.

Yeah...your reply probably does...along with a description about WTF your point is.

The topic however, that was specifically related to Trans, DSD, Wrestling and other athletics. 

That's why when you write;

Quote

wow. so b/c it's not about athletics it doesn't fit.

It's so funny because it's just proof you don't even bother to read the thread, you just come in with an assumption, jump in with a ridiculous post(from someone else) and then you're confused why it's not related to the thread. 

 

Quote

 

lol.. he and i had many a battle...

I always use that... waiting for YOU to make the connection

it's like your joey from friends

 

"many a battle," eh? Arguing with yourself. I believe that's multi-personality disorder. 

 

But Jimmy/Scout/LBJ was just waiting for YOU @1032004to make that connection! And he used that ever so timely reference from that 30 year old TV show to insult you(I think it was an insult). 

I'm rather fond of the ellipsis myself. 

They.... make....less....sense when you don't put them...where a pause... in the sentence for impact...should go.

 

I'd ask what you were waiting for someone to pick up on from your poor use of ellipsis... even for informal writing. 

I must admit, I do just find you to be generally entertainingly stupid, but it's late and I have to do this tomorrow. 

Edited Friday at 05:27 AM by scourge165

[1032004]

7 hours ago, Scouts Honor said:

you and 1090129u3029u3094u were the one who said gay marriage.

wow. so b/c it's not about athletics it doesn't fit.

get a brain.

The video you posted brought up gay marriage.   In the 3 minute video it was one of the few specific points she made.

-She doesn’t like that the school thinks things are going well or wants to protect people from hurtful words

-She thinks they should focus more on preparing children for careers and improving their end-of-grade testing

-Less than 5% of people identify as LGBTQ.

-More than 50% of people believe in God, who made marriage between a  man and a woman.

-She demands that the “children who fear god” be protected, whatever that means

[whaletail]

On 6/12/2025 at 10:36 AM, scourge165 said:

I don't think anyone said you "can't ask what's fair." 

I think that's EXACTLY what we're talking about and may be more useful without the morons like Scout(who just happens to have the PERFECT personal anecdote from last night...while this topic was going by the way) just yelling over the conversation by calling her a man. 

I have no clue what's "fair" for people like that. I think in order to be qualified to answer that question, you'd have to have a MUCH better understanding of this topic than I have. I know it can't just be 'they're stronger.' Most great athletes are born physically superior. 

I can say if you're born male, you can't compete in the women's events. That it as far as I'm confident in commenting insofar as what I know or believe to be "fair." At least fair to the most number of people. 

I'm also incredibly skeptical that anyone on here was talking about an average Albanian fighter BEFORE the Olympics. 

My ambivalence regarding whether DSD athletes should be allowed to participate in women's sports reflects my own ignorance as well.

Although I constantly read that they are 'biologically male', I've not seen that phrase defined with precision, let alone the assertion substantiated. Nor have I seen any research documenting their testosterone levels, and how they compare vs. elite female athletes.

The intersection of biology and our cultural perspectives regarding "level playing fields" and allowable advantages etc. is also relevant to the DSD athlete debate. 

Finally, as an odd aside, these debates always leave me thinking about Spencer Lee vs. Anthony Robles, and the nature of disability/advantage. Specifically, why it seems taboo to even consider Robles' potential advantage(s) (and to a much lesser extent, Spencer's) and what that says about our obsession with level playing fields.

 

 

 

[Caveira]

20 minutes ago, whaletail said:

My ambivalence regarding whether DSD athletes should be allowed to participate in women's sports reflects my own ignorance as well.

Although I constantly read that they are 'biologically male', I've not seen that phrase defined with precision, let alone the assertion substantiated. Nor have I seen any research documenting their testosterone levels, and how they compare vs. elite female athletes.

The intersection of biology and our cultural perspectives regarding "level playing fields" and allowable advantages etc. is also relevant to the DSD athlete debate. 

Finally, as an odd aside, these debates always leave me thinking about Spencer Lee vs. Anthony Robles, and the nature of disability/advantage. Specifically, why it seems taboo to even consider Robles' potential advantage(s) (and to a much lesser extent, Spencer's) and what that says about our obsession with level playing fields.

 

 

 

The left doesn’t like to be asked what the definition of a woman is do they?   If you ask them they usually ask you to leave.  

Edited 13 hours ago by Caveira

[scourge165]

7 minutes ago, Caveira said:

The left doesn’t ask what the definition of a woman is do they?   If you ask them they usually ask you to leave.  

LOL...imagine living in this world? A Matt Walsh documentary! 

The guy who studied "the trans issue" for decades and then when asked how many kids(ie, those below 18) were on HRT, he said "oh million, millions," and...about 3-5 minutes later, Rogan, dubious of the intellectual Matt Walsh's claims fact checks him...4200, less than 1000 a year!

 

That's where you're getting "the left" can't answer what is a women? How pathetic is your life dude? You live in a social media bubble. 

I guess the right then is a short, fat, bald middle age to elderly man espousing racial slurs with their fat wives...and they can't wait to stop talking about a civil war! 

I mean, I see that on social media!

Also, how ignorant are YOU that you're just constantly asking what a women is and being asked to leave?

 

I can picture it, foam coming out of your mouth, screaming, 'ANSWER THE QUESTION! WHY WON'T YOU ANSWER IT, WHAT IS A WOMEN,' as the scared day care assistant ushers the kids back inside!

[Caveira]

2 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

LOL...imagine living in this world? A Matt Walsh documentary! 

The guy who studied "the trans issue" for decades and then when asked how many kids(ie, those below 18) were on HRT, he said "oh million, millions," and...about 3-5 minutes later, Rogan, dubious of the intellectual Matt Walsh's claims fact checks him...4200, less than 1000 a year!

 

That's where you're getting "the left" can't answer what is a women? How pathetic is your life dude? You live in a social media bubble. 

I guess the right then is a short, fat, bald middle age to elderly man espousing racial slurs with their fat wives...and they can't wait to stop talking about a civil war! 

I mean, I see that on social media!

Also, how ignorant are YOU that you're just constantly asking what a women is and being asked to leave?

 

I can picture it, foam coming out of your mouth, screaming, 'ANSWER THE QUESTION! WHY WON'T YOU ANSWER IT, WHAT IS A WOMEN,' as the scared day care assistant ushers the kids back inside!

You Typed a lot of words just to say the left doesn’t like to be asked to define what a woman is.  

[scourge165]

1 hour ago, Caveira said:

You Typed a lot of words just to say the left doesn’t like to be asked to define what a woman is.  

LOL...you're not a serious person. 

 

You type a lot of words just to say you don't live in the real world, just in Matt Walsh documentaries. 

 

Also, can I just ask;

Quote

 

 If you ask them they usually ask you to leave.  

 

 

 

How often are you doing this and why?

Never once has this been asked of me...or anyone I know.

Edited 12 hours ago by scourge165

[ugarles]

On 6/12/2025 at 7:23 PM, Husker_Du said:

how many of you think Men competing against Women is fine? Lead with your chests. Cmon tough guys. 

i do not think this is a reasonable phrasing of the question and it belies a hostility to trans women generally. i think, with my full chest, that you should go ***duck** yourself.

[Caveira]

10 minutes ago, ugarles said:

i do not think this is a reasonable phrasing of the question and it belies a hostility to trans women generally. i think, with my full chest, that you should go ***duck** yourself.

What’s a more reasonable way to word it?

[pokemonster]

2 hours ago, whaletail said:

My ambivalence regarding whether DSD athletes should be allowed to participate in women's sports reflects my own ignorance as well.

Although I constantly read that they are 'biologically male', I've not seen that phrase defined with precision, let alone the assertion substantiated. Nor have I seen any research documenting their testosterone levels, and how they compare vs. elite female athletes.

The intersection of biology and our cultural perspectives regarding "level playing fields" and allowable advantages etc. is also relevant to the DSD athlete debate. 

Finally, as an odd aside, these debates always leave me thinking about Spencer Lee vs. Anthony Robles, and the nature of disability/advantage. Specifically, why it seems taboo to even consider Robles' potential advantage(s) (and to a much lesser extent, Spencer's) and what that says about our obsession with level playing fields.

 

 

 

What about Oscar Pistorius? With those spring loaded legs he was able to excel at sprinting as well as murdering. 

Edited 12 hours ago by pokemonster

[pokemonster]

15 minutes ago, Caveira said:

What’s a more reasonable way to word it?

Just call them trans women. Simple as that, no need to be asses about it by grouping them as men. It also over simplifies the issue as no straight up men will be tolerated moving forward, the only ones causing issues in sports are the complicated fringe cases. There's a geniune argument to allow trans women who transitioned prior to completing puberty to compete in women's divisions without any restrictions, for instance. 

[scourge165]

34 minutes ago, pokemonster said:

Just call them trans women. Simple as that, no need to be asses about it by grouping them as men. It also over simplifies the issue as no straight up men will be tolerated moving forward, the only ones causing issues in sports are the complicated fringe cases. There's a geniune argument to allow trans women who transitioned prior to completing puberty to compete in women's divisions without any restrictions, for instance. 

Well, no, they're going to call them men because... they just can't wrap their head around it. 

They can wrap their head around a story in which God  sends his Son(who is the same) to Earth and then there's also a Ghost and that's the same(all three are 1...the Dad and he Son, same entity)...and that makes complete sense. 

But a dude who thinks they're really a women is just this thing they CANNOT possibly fathom!

 

Either way, yes, you can just be polite and try and call them what they wish. 

 

That said, no, they don't get to compete against women. 

1-You shouldn't be starting kids on HRT before puberty. Way-WAY-WAAAAAY too many children not old or mature enough that have made that decision...end up regretting it.

So there shouldn't be kids transitioning before puberty.

 

Quote

 

Social Transition Before Puberty

• Among childhood gender‑nonconforming kids (pre-puberty), many later identify with their birth-assigned gender—not because of regret, but because gender identity can evolve. Studies show between 61% to 98% “desist”, though these studies reflect the old "gender nonconforming" umbrella and not actual regret over social transition them.us+3ncbi.nlm.nih.gov+3support.gendergp.com+3.

• Importantly, those statistics aren’t about regretting a social transition, but rather about the natural development of identity. Social transition is reversible and considered low-risk.

 

 

Those numbers are high and vary a great deal because... to Matt Walsh's ignorance, there are not "millions and millions" of kids who are transitioning. There are too many responsible Doctors and it's a pretty...vigorous psychological testing you need to go through(or there is supposed to be). 

 

2-Either way, the number of those who transition before puberty is nearly 0.

There is an unfair genetic advantage, we have men and women's divisions for a reason.

 

I don't pretend to know what to do about DSD. Have THEM take HRT or whatever else for 2 years to get their testoterone down and maybe they can compete. 

Edited 11 hours ago by scourge165

[Caveira]

1 hour ago, scourge165 said:

Well, no, they're going to call them men because... they just can't wrap their head around it. 

They can wrap their head around a story in which God  sends his Son(who is the same) to Earth and then there's also a Ghost and that's the same(all three are 1...the Dad and he Son, same entity)...and that makes complete sense. 

But a dude who thinks they're really a women is just this thing they CANNOT possibly fathom!

 

Either way, yes, you can just be polite and try and call them what they wish. 

 

That said, no, they don't get to compete against women. 

1-You shouldn't be starting kids on HRT before puberty. Way-WAY-WAAAAAY too many children not old or mature enough that have made that decision...end up regretting it.

So there shouldn't be kids transitioning before puberty.

 

 

Those numbers are high and vary a great deal because... to Matt Walsh's ignorance, there are not "millions and millions" of kids who are transitioning. There are too many responsible Doctors and it's a pretty...vigorous psychological testing you need to go through(or there is supposed to be). 

 

2-Either way, the number of those who transition before puberty is nearly 0.

There is an unfair genetic advantage, we have men and women's divisions for a reason.

 

I don't pretend to know what to do about DSD. Have THEM take HRT or whatever else for 2 years to get their testoterone down and maybe they can compete. 

In 1000 years if an archeologist digs up a biological man who decided he was going to be a woman.  Will the archeologist classify this cadaver a male or a female?

[MNRodent]

40 minutes ago, Caveira said:

In 1000 years if an archeologist digs up a biological man who decided he was going to be a woman.  Will the archeologist classify this cadaver a male or a female?

In a thousand years will you, they/them, or anyone really care?

I know I don't care right now.

[Caveira]

Just now, MNRodent said:

In a thousand years will you, they/them, or anyone really care?

I know I don't care right now.

You 100% know the answer to this.    Male.   

[dhay79]

3 hours ago, ugarles said:

i do not think this is a reasonable phrasing of the question and it belies a hostility to trans women generally. i think, with my full chest, that you should go ***duck** yourself.

"Trans women" are men.  The way the question is posed is accurate.  Try to accept and recognize biological facts as more important than validating mental illness.

[whaletail]

2 hours ago, scourge165 said:

Well, no, they're going to call them men because... they just can't wrap their head around it. 

They can wrap their head around a story in which God  sends his Son(who is the same) to Earth and then there's also a Ghost and that's the same(all three are 1...the Dad and he Son, same entity)...and that makes complete sense. 

But a dude who thinks they're really a women is just this thing they CANNOT possibly fathom!

 

Either way, yes, you can just be polite and try and call them what they wish. 

 

That said, no, they don't get to compete against women. 

1-You shouldn't be starting kids on HRT before puberty. Way-WAY-WAAAAAY too many children not old or mature enough that have made that decision...end up regretting it.

So there shouldn't be kids transitioning before puberty.

 

 

Those numbers are high and vary a great deal because... to Matt Walsh's ignorance, there are not "millions and millions" of kids who are transitioning. There are too many responsible Doctors and it's a pretty...vigorous psychological testing you need to go through(or there is supposed to be). 

 

2-Either way, the number of those who transition before puberty is nearly 0.

There is an unfair genetic advantage, we have men and women's divisions for a reason.

 

I don't pretend to know what to do about DSD. Have THEM take HRT or whatever else for 2 years to get their testoterone down and maybe they can compete. 

World Athletics (T&F governing body) does allow DSD women this opportunity. Semenya argues that HRT has too many side effects (psychological and physical), hasn't been proven safe for DSD women, and finally, that she should be able to compete as she was born.

Although I still support the WA policy (at least tentatively), it's worth noting that DSD women have female genitalia, are raised as female, and unless they happen to show world class running ability, may never even know they're biologically different. They can't have children, and might learn about their condition as a result, but I suspect very few East African villagers seek western medical treatment because they can't conceive (I'm pretty sure DSD has never been documented outside of Kenya, Namibia and Botswana).

So the idea that DSD athletes are either pretending to be women, or cheating in some fashion is absurd.

[ugarles]

1 hour ago, dhay79 said:

"Trans women" are men.  The way the question is posed is accurate.  Try to accept and recognize biological facts as more important than validating mental illness.

should probably get yourself checked before throwing stones

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

4 hours ago, scourge165 said:

Well, no, they're going to call them men because... they just can't wrap their head around it. 

They can wrap their head around a story in which God  sends his Son(who is the same) to Earth and then there's also a Ghost and that's the same(all three are 1...the Dad and he Son, same entity)...and that makes complete sense. 

But a dude who thinks they're really a women is just this thing they CANNOT possibly fathom!

 

Either way, yes, you can just be polite and try and call them what they wish. 

 

That said, no, they don't get to compete against women. 

1-You shouldn't be starting kids on HRT before puberty. Way-WAY-WAAAAAY too many children not old or mature enough that have made that decision...end up regretting it.

So there shouldn't be kids transitioning before puberty.

 

 

Those numbers are high and vary a great deal because... to Matt Walsh's ignorance, there are not "millions and millions" of kids who are transitioning. There are too many responsible Doctors and it's a pretty...vigorous psychological testing you need to go through(or there is supposed to be). 

 

2-Either way, the number of those who transition before puberty is nearly 0.

There is an unfair genetic advantage, we have men and women's divisions for a reason.

 

I don't pretend to know what to do about DSD. Have THEM take HRT or whatever else for 2 years to get their testoterone down and maybe they can compete. 

Record: Most words typed on intermat forum in a single day that re you lonely? not read by one person.  Congrats!

So many unread words on 6/15/25.  

Edited 7 hours ago by Interviewed_at_Weehawken

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

1 hour ago, whaletail said:

World Athletics (T&F governing body) does allow DSD women this opportunity. Semenya argues that HRT has too many side effects (psychological and physical), hasn't been proven safe for DSD women, and finally, that she should be able to compete as she was born.

Although I still support the WA policy (at least tentatively), it's worth noting that DSD women have female genitalia, are raised as female, and unless they happen to show world class running ability, may never even know they're biologically different. They can't have children, and might learn about their condition as a result, but I suspect very few East African villagers seek western medical treatment because they can't conceive (I'm pretty sure DSD has never been documented outside of Kenya, Namibia and Botswana).

So the idea that DSD athletes are either pretending to be women, or cheating in some fashion is absurd.

Semenya has testes, correct?

[Tripnsweep]

6 hours ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Semenya has testes, correct?

No.