If we could Double the Olympic Freestyle weights to 12---would you drop Greco?

[Former158]

Having multiple styles at the Olympic level does not help grow the fan base globally. I am in the camp that we should also adopt freestyle at the high school and collegiate level but that is a different topic. However, would you be willing to give up Greco if it meant we could double the weight classes for Freestyle at the Olympics? I would be in favor of slight rule changes like a clinch or others which would help the throwers---but wouldn't it be sweet to see the clash of styles all vying for the same spots, imagine the freestyle team below---I would imagine a 1-2 greco guys might break through with some tweaks to the rule.

57- Lee

60- Vito

63- Blaze/Gross/Fix/Mckenna

66- Lee

70- Yianni

74- Burroughs

78- Dake

83- Starocci

88- Zahid

92- Brooks

102- Snyder

120- Gable (hopefully he still competes)

[D3 for LU]

Nice thought... wish it could be so, but...

We, that is, American fans, don't look so well on G-R as does the rest of the world.

(For the most part... most overseas competition being held, especially if the host city/ nation where greco-roman  is popular, would hold that competition for last.)

D3

[okokzach]

I don't see why having different styles should hold the sport's popularity back. Track has all sorts of events. The 100m, 400m hurdles, relays, 1500m, steeplechase, and all the field events. All are super different from one another and have very different levels of popularity among fans. 

Edited Sunday at 06:29 PM by okokzach

[Caveira]

2 hours ago, okokzach said:

I don't see why having different styles should hold the sport's popularity back. Track has all sorts of events. The 100m, 400m hurdles, relays, 1500m, steeplechase, and all the field events. All are super different from one another and have very different levels of popularity among fans. 

What do you suppose the tv viewership was for wrestling vs track and field.   It’s probably not comparable.   That’s wrestling’s problem.  

[Hammerlock3]

yes

[Former158]

I can see the argument for track and field but honestly it is much easier to follow for the average viewer. Same with swimming. I don't need to be an expert in the rules for the 400 vs 800 meter to know who is winning. Wrestling has always been too complicated for the fan who hasn't competed. For instance, even most US wrestling fans don't know the strategies for greco vs freestyle vs collegiate.....it is time to have 1 style in my mind.

[shiraz321]

12 weights is over kill. 9 or 10 is good. Maybe keep them the same but get rid of 92 and adjust 86 and 97 accordingly. 

 

As for GR, credit to UWW. No clue how a unpopular sport with no women's division continues to survive in the olympics. The only sport in the games that women can not participate in. I'd be interested if anyone can shed some light on this. 

 

Unfortunately I think that if/when it finally does get cut, the weights wont go to FS, but to beach wrestling. 

[WrestlingRasta]

No

[AgaveMaria]

Olympic weights need to be the same as at the World Championships. No need for more, especially with the attitude of those in charge of Olympic events.

[Ragu]

TL;DR no

[CHROMEBIRD]

6 hours ago, shiraz321 said:

12 weights is over kill. 9 or 10 is good. Maybe keep them the same but get rid of 92 and adjust 86 and 97 accordingly. 

 

As for GR, credit to UWW. No clue how a unpopular sport with no women's division continues to survive in the olympics. The only sport in the games that women can not participate in. I'd be interested if anyone can shed some light on this. 

 

Unfortunately I think that if/when it finally does get cut, the weights wont go to FS, but to beach wrestling. 

Solid take. Agreed on all points. Now that synchronized/artistic swimming is co-ed, I think Greco is the only sport without an analogue for men & women. Wrestling gets by for now because of tradition, but Pankration and chariot racing were also events in the ancient Olympics; and wrestling during the first modern games in the late 19th century probably bares little resemblance to Greco today. Similarly, beach wrestling may one day become the de facto "wrestling" in the Olympics. Not saying I support this, just that it's not too difficult to imagine it happening.

[Ohio Elite]

Make it the 10 world weights, get rid of Greco-Roman? Yes please!

[mspart]

IOC has said that there will not be more medals given for wrestling.   Getting rid of GR would give 3 each more for FS and WFS.   But I agree they would include some other form of wrestling and negate the benefits.  It was a big deal for UWW to go against the IOC and offer 10 weights during off Olympic years and to off er the non olympic weights a WC of their own during an olympic year.   IOC wanted to get rid of wrestling and it was saved near the last minute. So I'm not for rocking the boat at this point. 

I personally have nothing against GR, but it is not very unwatchable anymore.  

mspart

Edited 23 hours ago by mspart

[Window12]

I prefer the free style but the recent GR European and Asian competitions had interesting and watchable matches…

[GrandOlm]

15 hours ago, shiraz321 said:

12 weights is over kill. 9 or 10 is good. Maybe keep them the same but get rid of 92 and adjust 86 and 97 accordingly. 

 

As for GR, credit to UWW. No clue how a unpopular sport with no women's division continues to survive in the olympics. The only sport in the games that women can not participate in. I'd be interested if anyone can shed some light on this. 

 

Unfortunately I think that if/when it finally does get cut, the weights wont go to FS, but to beach wrestling. 

Both styles are unpopular. 

Freestyle is only popular in Iran and marginally popular (I'm counting Folk Style as Freestyle) in the USA. It's not even popular in Russia, Russia has two small and fairly poor regions that heavily practice FS.  Most Russians have nothing to do with freestyle wresting. 

So Greco and Freestyle are either both tied in how irrelevant they are in most countries (like Japan) or Greco is slightly to noticeably more popular in a given nation (especially in Europe). Not sugar coating Greco's situation, they would  probably swap places with FS.  But that's really mainly because of America's Folk style machine, not what freestyle is doing overseas. The European Championships were the Dagestan and Ossetian Open in disguise, that's not a healthy sport. 

Greco is in the olympics because wrestling was in the ancient olympics. It's also possible that leg grabs were not allowed in ancient Greco Roman wrestling, which would make modern Greco the closest homage to the ancients. 

[okokzach]

11 hours ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

Solid take. Agreed on all points. Now that synchronized/artistic swimming is co-ed, I think Greco is the only sport without an analogue for men & women. Wrestling gets by for now because of tradition, but Pankration and chariot racing were also events in the ancient Olympics; and wrestling during the first modern games in the late 19th century probably bares little resemblance to Greco today. Similarly, beach wrestling may one day become the de facto "wrestling" in the Olympics. Not saying I support this, just that it's not too difficult to imagine it happening.

I've never watched beach wrestling. What is the appeal?

[shiraz321]

9 hours ago, GrandOlm said:

Both styles are unpopular. 

Freestyle is only popular in Iran and marginally popular (I'm counting Folk Style as Freestyle) in the USA. It's not even popular in Russia, Russia has two small and fairly poor regions that heavily practice FS.  Most Russians have nothing to do with freestyle wresting. 

So Greco and Freestyle are either both tied in how irrelevant they are in most countries (like Japan) or Greco is slightly to noticeably more popular in a given nation (especially in Europe). Not sugar coating Greco's situation, they would  probably swap places with FS.  But that's really mainly because of America's Folk style machine, not what freestyle is doing overseas. The European Championships were the Dagestan and Ossetian Open in disguise, that's not a healthy sport. 

Greco is in the olympics because wrestling was in the ancient olympics. It's also possible that leg grabs were not allowed in ancient Greco Roman wrestling, which would make modern Greco the closest homage to the ancients. 

Firstly I would like to say I always appreciate your posts. You are very knowledgeable and they are always interesting. 

 

Of course they are both unpopular sports, I just assumed GR having no female divisions AND being unpopular would push it over the edge. Also wrestling is the only combat sport to have multiple styles, and we have to most weight classes of any sport that has weight classes in the games. Tae Kwon Do has 8, Weightlifting has 10, Judo has 15, Boxing has 14 and we have 18. 

 

 

Your point about it surviving off legacy must be accurate. I wonder how much longer it can go.

Edited 5 hours ago by shiraz321

[Jim L]

13 hours ago, GrandOlm said:

Both styles are unpopular. 

Freestyle is only popular in Iran and marginally popular (I'm counting Folk Style as Freestyle) in the USA. It's not even popular in Russia, Russia has two small and fairly poor regions that heavily practice FS.  Most Russians have nothing to do with freestyle wresting. 

So Greco and Freestyle are either both tied in how irrelevant they are in most countries (like Japan) or Greco is slightly to noticeably more popular in a given nation (especially in Europe). Not sugar coating Greco's situation, they would  probably swap places with FS.  But that's really mainly because of America's Folk style machine, not what freestyle is doing overseas. The European Championships were the Dagestan and Ossetian Open in disguise, that's not a healthy sport. 

Greco is in the olympics because wrestling was in the ancient olympics. It's also possible that leg grabs were not allowed in ancient Greco Roman wrestling, which would make modern Greco the closest homage to the ancients. 

This is true of mot Olympic sports. Even sports that are popular during Olympics years like swimming and diving are mostly irrelevant during non-Olympic years.

I don't know if there are pockets somewhere in the world where sports like Canoeing, Fencing, Shooting, Sailing, Water Polo etc. have large following and the athletes are celebrities, but looking at the list of Olympic sports I would guess the majority of them are niche sports similar or even less popular than wreslting.

[CHROMEBIRD]

11 hours ago, okokzach said:

I've never watched beach wrestling. What is the appeal?

I think beach wrestling might be attractive to the Olympics because at appeals to younger audiences and has a format that the IOC prefers. Matches are pretty quick, which I guess works well with our modern attention spans, and the rules are easy to understand. Barriers to participation are very low for both genders, which is another plus.

Don't get me wrong, I prefer freestyle any day, but it wouldn't be shocking to see beach succeed FS/Greco, or for us to get something like MFS, WFS, GR, and Women's Beach (probably less likely). I'd also like to see beach encourage more technique so it isn't just Sumo At the Shore. They also have their own weird version of criteria that's kind of weird, IIRC, and when there's a tie score at the end of the match the winner can be determined by last score, judge's decision,  or whichever wrestler weighed-in the lightest(? maybe because there are only 4 weight classes?). I'm not sure what the official UWW rules are on tiebreakers or if the national federations have their own variants.