Trump's Concentration Camp

[Bigbrog]

29 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

I never said they had to get him back.  I said they had to try to get him back.

I also said considering we are paying Bukele, it should be easy to get him back if we simply asked.  There is no reason for Bukele to say no, it would be one less prisoner they’d have to deal with, and we offered a plane so it’s not like they’re just letting a “dangerous terrorist” go free.

I disagree with his ridiculous statement of “what do you want me to do, smuggle him into the US?”  We offered a plane, it wouldn’t be smuggling!

So I'm confused, what in the heck are you even arguing about...you said the SCOTUS said we had to return him, which you then say it isn't what the SCOTUS said, they you said we should ask to have him returned, but we did provide a plane, and then you said we didn't ask.  Then you said Bukele should send him back because the District Court said Trump should send him back, but then you said no Bukele doesn't have to send him back, but should send him back if Trump asks...again even though we sent a plane.  Then you backtrack even more and say, "Well Bukele shouldn't have said to smuggle him into the US because it wouldn't be smuggling....so AGAIN, what is your stance....should we or shouldn't we get the gang member back?  Or is it you just want to complain about every little thing Trump does no matter what??

[1032004]

4 minutes ago, Bigbrog said:

So I'm confused, what in the heck are you even arguing about...you said the SCOTUS said we had to return him, which you then say it isn't what the SCOTUS said, they you said we should ask to have him returned, but we did provide a plane, and then you said we didn't ask.  Then you said Bukele should send him back because the District Court said Trump should send him back, but then you said no Bukele doesn't have to send him back, but should send him back if Trump asks...again even though we sent a plane.  Then you backtrack even more and say, "Well Bukele shouldn't have said to smuggle him into the US because it wouldn't be smuggling....so AGAIN, what is your stance....should we or shouldn't we get the gang member back?  Or is it you just want to complain about every little thing Trump does no matter what??

I never said SCOTUS said we had to return him, I said SCOTUS said we had to try.

I also said that considering we are paying El Salvador to house him, there is no reason for them to not willingly send him back.  And since we did offer a plane, it would not be “smuggling” as Bukele claimed.  You sound like Bukele pretending to be confused when you’re really not.

 

[fishbane]

15 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

I never said SCOTUS said we had to return him, I said SCOTUS said we had to try.

I also said that considering we are paying El Salvador to house him, there is no reason for them to not willingly send him back.  And since we did offer a plane, it would not be “smuggling” as Bukele claimed.  You sound like Bukele pretending to be confused when you’re really not.

 

I am not sure of the details of the agreement with the USA and the Salvador.  I had heard that the US paid them $6million to house 300 prisoners for 1 year.  Has the money been paid?  Does the US owe $6M whether they send 300 inmates or 0?  Or is the Salvador sending them a monthly bill based on how many of our inmates they are currently housing?

My point is there might not bill with a specific charge for Abrego Garcia that the US could chose not to pay.  If there is then I think we should stop payments for him and continuing to pay for him to be housed there would violate the judge's order, but if the deal was $6M for up to 300 prisoners for a year we are kind of screwed.  We could try sending a 301st prisoner since in our mind we aren't paying for Abrego Garcia, but if they refuse to take the new prisoner without additional payment what do you do?

[Scouts Honor]

31 minutes ago, Bigbrog said:

So I'm confused, what in the heck are you even arguing about...you said the SCOTUS said we had to return him, which you then say it isn't what the SCOTUS said, they you said we should ask to have him returned, but we did provide a plane, and then you said we didn't ask.  Then you said Bukele should send him back because the District Court said Trump should send him back, but then you said no Bukele doesn't have to send him back, but should send him back if Trump asks...again even though we sent a plane.  Then you backtrack even more and say, "Well Bukele shouldn't have said to smuggle him into the US because it wouldn't be smuggling....so AGAIN, what is your stance....should we or shouldn't we get the gang member back?  Or is it you just want to complain about every little thing Trump does no matter what??

he has confused himself into allegedly voting for trump again

[1032004]

10 minutes ago, fishbane said:

I am not sure of the details of the agreement with the USA and the Salvador.  I had heard that the US paid them $6million to house 300 prisoners for 1 year.  Has the money been paid?  Does the US owe $6M whether they send 300 inmates or 0?  Or is the Salvador sending them a monthly bill based on how many of our inmates they are currently housing?

My point is there might not bill with a specific charge for Abrego Garcia that the US could chose not to pay.  If there is then I think we should stop payments for him and continuing to pay for him to be housed there would violate the judge's order, but if the deal was $6M for up to 300 prisoners for a year we are kind of screwed.  We could try sending a 301st prisoner since in our mind we aren't paying for Abrego Garcia, but if they refuse to take the new prisoner without additional payment what do you do?

Hypotheticals about withholding payments are kinda pointless IMO since we know the admin would never do that.  I’m more just saying that since we’re paying them (and we offered him transportation to get back), there’s no reason for El Salvador to say no if we simply asked.   But if I had to bet no one from the administration actually did.

[jross]

Per the supreme court, the Executive Branch must try to help bring Abrego Garcia back, as the court’s order to "facilitate" his return is still in place. But because foreign affairs are involved, the Executive Branch has some flexibility in how it does this. Exactly what they have to do depends on the District Court clarifying what "effectuate" means later.

Trump’s team met with El Salvador’s President Bukele on April 14, 2025, and said it’s El Salvador’s call whether to send Abrego Garcia back. Bukele called it “preposterous” and said Abrego Garcia is a “terrorist,” which matches Trump’s team’s claim that he’s in the MS-13 gang. They’re not pushing hard to bring him back.

[Caveira]

1 hour ago, 1032004 said:

He didn’t comply with the order.   What he “cares about” is irrelevant. Hopefully we’ll get another ruling from the Supreme Court to better define “facilitate.” 

The order also required them to provide updates as to what they were doing to facilitate it, and I believe all that’s been said is they said they would provide a plane.  If they asked then surely that would have been stated.  
 

I maintain he (Trump) asked.  And Pres of El Salvador said no.  That complies in my book.

Edited April 17 by Caveira

[1032004]

43 minutes ago, Caveira said:

I maintain he (Trump) asked.  And Pres of El Salvador said no.  That complies in my book.

Please provide a link with evidence of this.  Thanks in advance 

[JimmySpeaks]

2 hours ago, 1032004 said:

I never said they had to get him back.  I said they had to try to get him back.

I also said considering we are paying Bukele, it should be easy to get him back if we simply asked.  There is no reason for Bukele to say no, it would be one less prisoner they’d have to deal with, and we offered a plane so it’s not like they’re just letting a “dangerous terrorist” go free.

I disagree with his ridiculous statement of “what do you want me to do, smuggle him into the US?”  We offered a plane, it wouldn’t be smuggling!

He obviously doesn’t mind having the prisoners there or he wouldn’t do it. So one less prisoner means nothing to him.   The guy doesn’t want to get rid of him. Case closed. 

[Caveira]

2 hours ago, 1032004 said:

He didn’t comply with the order.   What he “cares about” is irrelevant. Hopefully we’ll get another ruling from the Supreme Court to better define “facilitate.” 

The order also required them to provide updates as to what they were doing to facilitate it, and I believe all that’s been said is they said they would provide a plane.  If they asked then surely that would have been stated.  
 

Sure.  The Supreme Court is going to have 40 different actions / back and forth on their ruling.   Ok.  I don’t see it.   They said words.  It’s up to some other lawyer / judge to bring another case in front of them right?  Will that happen.  Who knows.  

[Caveira]

1 hour ago, 1032004 said:

there is no reason for them to not willingly send him back.

The Pres of El Salvador’s said no.   How can that be worded more directly so you can understand he has zero desire to let out whom he considers a terrorist.   He does not owe you evidence of said terrorism as he is the Pres of an entirely different sovereign country.  
 

the us can’t make him change his mind and are not required by law to try to forcibly make him change said mind.     Asked.  No.   Done. 

[Scouts Honor]

 

[Caveira]

24 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Please provide a link with evidence of this.  Thanks in advance 

Without further subpoenas or other legal action.  He doesn’t need to provide anyone with what his version of trying is.   Vague un actionable direction like “try” is tough af to measure.   I maintain he asked by proxy of sitting next to a reporter who literally asked  and the El Salvador president literally said no.   Boom.  Tried.   Sue me.   
 

even In kangaroo court winky winky deals hold up.  
 

Go find my post far above.  Saying.   Liberals need illegal immigration to bolster their voting base.   They let 10 million illegals in to bolster said strategy.  Now they will make any and every immigration thing Trump does as emotional as possible and elongate the news cycle around said emotion as long as they can.   They are going to find every one off they can.   It’s called politics.  And yes politics sucks.    They want deportations to be hard.  Why.  That’s simple.  They want illegals here voting blue.  Keep them here keep them voting for their team.  
 

Hope I didn’t assume too many pronouns there.  Then again South Americans don’t have pronoun issues like we do here.    lol. 
 

Edited April 17 by Caveira

[1032004]

7 minutes ago, Caveira said:

Without further subpoenas or other legal action.  He doesn’t need to provide anyone with what his version of trying is.   Vague un actionable direction like “try” is tough af to measure.   I maintain he asked by proxy of sitting next to a reporter who literally asked  and the El Salvador president literally said no.   Boom.  Tried.   Sue me.   
 

lol that’s not asking 

[Caveira]

Just now, 1032004 said:

lol that’s not asking 

Take it to court.  Again.  Try is vague.  How do you measure vague / try.  You’re being emotional here.  You love illegals I’m sure.   That’s great.  

[1032004]

10 minutes ago, Caveira said:

The Pres of El Salvador’s said no.   How can that be worded more directly so you can understand he has zero desire to let out whom he considers a terrorist.   He does not owe you evidence of said terrorism as he is the Pres of an entirely different sovereign country.  
 

the us can’t make him change his mind and are not required by law to try to forcibly make him change said mind.     Asked.  No.   Done. 

I didn’t say he wouldn’t say no.  I said he has no reason to say no.

And if Abrego Garcia does stay there, he probably does owe his citizens an explanation for what he is accused of, because right now the only reason he’s in the prison that’s been acknowledged by US courts is that he came to the US illegally.  Is trying to enter the US illegally a crime in El Salvador?

[Caveira]

5 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

I didn’t say he wouldn’t say no.  I said he has no reason to say no.

And if Abrego Garcia does stay there, he probably does owe his citizens an explanation for what he is accused of, because right now the only reason he’s in the prison that’s been acknowledged by US courts is that he came to the US illegally.  Is trying to enter the US illegally a crime in El Salvador?

What he owes his citizens = really none of your or our USA business.   
 

reasons to say no = he literally said he believes he is a terrorist and won’t let him go.    
 

Terrorist = bad in the mind of the El Salvador president.   Thus.  Hell hole Prison.  
 

is illegal immigration into the us a crime in El Salvador = who tf cares.  But …. It’s  why he’s back in El Salvador…. As why he was punted out of our country.   
 

why is he in the hell hole prison? = that’s the complete discretion of the El Salvador president / judicial peoples.   0 to do with USA or Trump or you or I.   

Edited April 17 by Caveira

[1032004]

8 minutes ago, Caveira said:

What he owes his citizens = really none of your or our USA business.   
 

reasons to say no = he literally said he believes he is a terrorist and won’t let him go.    
 

Terrorist = bad in the mind of the El Salvador president.   Thus.  Hell hole Prison.  
 

is illegal immigration into the us a crime in El Salvador = who tf cares.  But …. It’s  why he’s back in El Salvador…. As why he was punted out of our country.   
 

why is he in the hell hole prison? = that’s the complete discretion of the El Salvador president / judicial peoples.   0 to do with USA or Trump or you or I.   

Yes he should have been punted out of the country, but he shouldn’t have been put in prison.

Good to know you’re okay with a country’s president just arbitrarily deciding who’s a terrorist or not.

Edited April 17 by 1032004

[Caveira]

1 minute ago, 1032004 said:

Yes he should have been punted out of the country, but he shouldn’t have been put in prison.

Good to know you’re okay with a country’s president just arbitrarily deciding who’s a terrorist or not.

I didn’t indicate I was good or bad with his decision. 
 

I indicated what El Salvador does with him is El Salvador business.  We didn’t put him in prison.  We didn’t say put him in a hell hole.   We just kicked him out. 
 

back to my emotion and riding any and every immigration issue the same way.  Look at the rhetoric.  
 

The title of this thread = trumps concentration camp.   This isn’t run by Trump.  
 

sample news article headline: Trump sends super nice undocumented father of 18 defo not gang member dad of the year to Hell hole prison.   
 

bla.  
 

bla.  
 

bla.   
 

rinse.  
 

repeat.  
 

should there be push outs in folkstyle.  No.   100% no.  

[Caveira]

15 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Yes he should have been punted out of the country, but he shouldn’t have been put in prison.

Good to know you’re okay with a country’s president just arbitrarily deciding who’s a terrorist or not.

I also don’t frequent El Salvador.  Not sure why.  But I won’t be frequenting that country in the future.  You can read between the lines all you like there.  It’s likely accurate.  

[jross]

13 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

I didn’t say he wouldn’t say no.  I said he has no reason to say no.

And if Abrego Garcia does stay there, he probably does owe his citizens an explanation for what he is accused of, because right now the only reason he’s in the prison that’s been acknowledged by US courts is that he came to the US illegally.  Is trying to enter the US illegally a crime in El Salvador?

The United States officially designated MS-13 (Mara Salvatrucha) as a Foreign Terrorist Organization (FTO) in 2025.  The United States has intelligence documents that identify Abrego as a member of the MS-13 gang.  Minimally the reports consistently identify he was with others confirmed in the MS-13 gang.  Abrego was allegedly on a terrorist watch list when pulled over and reported to the FBI for suspicion of human smuggling in 2022.  Note: there is a conflicting report that says Abrego was not on the watch list at that time, but one of his passengers was on the watch list.    

• https://tennesseestar.com/justice/bidens-fbi-ordered-tn-highway-patrol-to-release-maryland-man-recently-deported-to-el-salvador-after-he-was-detained-in-2022-traffic-stop-on-suspicion-of-human-trafficking/tpappert/2025/04/16/

The US FTO designation provides a legal basis for his deportation and detention, potentially overriding US court rulings that his March 15, 2025, deportation was unlawful due to a 2019 withholding of removal order and an “administrative error.”  In El Salvador, MS-13 has been classified as a terrorist organization since a 2015 Supreme Court ruling, enabling the application of anti-terrorism laws, including keeping Abrego in the the Terrorism Confinement Center (CECOT).

[1032004]

21 minutes ago, Caveira said:

 We didn’t put him in prison.  

Yes we did

[fishbane]

1 hour ago, Caveira said:

I maintain he (Trump) asked.  And Pres of El Salvador said no.  That complies in my book.

The DHS lawyers that have appeared in court and filed the status update under oath have not made the claim that Trump requested Abrego Garcia's return from Bukele and Bukele declined the request.  That would seem like an odd omission since the judge had ordered the government to file a sworn statement every day from an official with personal knowledge of the situation, detailing Abrego García’s location, his custodial status, and what steps—if any—are being taken to secure his return.  The US President requesting his return and Bukele's answer sounds like something that should be included in the status update.  

Below is a link to the government's filing after the meeting with Bukele.  Mr. Mazzara included an unofficial transcript of the video of the meeting which was limited to the public meeting everyone has seen.  Trump did not ask Bukele in that meeting and the judge did not accept the transcript.  He also wrote that if Abrego Garcia were to present at a US Port of entry he would be detained and either removed to a third country or sent back to El Salvador.  How that fits within the definition of facilitating his return?  I have no idea.  

I might believe the claim that Trump asked Bukele to return him if the government can find a lawyer willing to go into court/write it in a status update under penalty of perjury.  I am skeptical they could find such a person at this point in time.  

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mdd.578815/gov.uscourts.mdd.578815.77.0.pdf

[1032004]

17 minutes ago, jross said:

The United States officially designated MS-13 (Mara Salvatrucha) as a Foreign Terrorist Organization (FTO) in 2025.  The United States has intelligence documents that identify Abrego as a member of the MS-13 gang.  Minimally the reports consistently identify he was with others confirmed in the MS-13 gang.  Abrego was allegedly on a terrorist watch list when pulled over and reported to the FBI for suspicion of human smuggling in 2022.  Note: there is a conflicting report that says Abrego was not on the watch list at that time, but one of his passengers was on the watch list.    

• https://tennesseestar.com/justice/bidens-fbi-ordered-tn-highway-patrol-to-release-maryland-man-recently-deported-to-el-salvador-after-he-was-detained-in-2022-traffic-stop-on-suspicion-of-human-trafficking/tpappert/2025/04/16/

The US FTO designation provides a legal basis for his deportation and detention, potentially overriding US court rulings that his March 15, 2025, deportation was unlawful due to a 2019 withholding of removal order and an “administrative error.”  In El Salvador, MS-13 has been classified as a terrorist organization since a 2015 Supreme Court ruling, enabling the application of anti-terrorism laws, including keeping Abrego in the the Terrorism Confinement Center (CECOT).

A US court did not determine he was in MS-13, it just said the allegations “appear to be trustworthy.”  Also in reply to your comments above, there were 4 men questioned at the Home Depot, and one of them was determined to not be in MS-13 and was released.  So the fact that he was “with others confirmed to be MS-13” doesn’t mean much.

Link to decision: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mdd.578815/gov.uscourts.mdd.578815.11.1_2.pdf

Edited April 17 by 1032004

[Caveira]

9 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Yes we did

We jailed him?   Or El Salvador jailed him?