Pennsylvania's Second School

[FWwrestling]

I wasn't aware that Pennsylvania had 11 D1 Schools. Anyhow it made me wonder what is viewed as Pennsylvania's second best program? If you couldn't get onto Penn State's team which program is next up?  From my outsider perspective it seems like Lehigh, follwed by Pitt. Is there a third teir?  Any other school on Lehigh or Pitt's level?

[1032004]

I’d put UPenn in that same tier IMO

[lisa morales]

Lehigh's program seems to lack ambition.  Satisfied with two or three All Americans and not much else.

[The Kid]

Lehigh, Pittsburgh,  Lock Haven in that order.

[nhs67]

I might do something like...

Tier 1 - Penn State (1)
Tier 2 - EMPTY
Tier 3 - Lehigh (15)
Tier 4 - Penn (21), Pitt (19)
Tier 5 - Drexel (32), Lock Haven(38), Bucknel (35)
Tier 6 - Edinboro(51)
Tier 7 - Franklin & Marshal (72), Clarion (74)
Tier 8 - EMPTY
Tier 9 - Bloomsburg (79)

To me, if you're a tier above or below, someone, you should expect a good dual.  There isn't a team coming close to Penn State.  This would have been for this last year.

[Wrestleknownothing]

Based on this year I think it is Lehigh and Penn in a tie, followed by Pittsburgh and Lock Haven. 

Based on the last 6 years (33 seeds), Penn drops a couple slots:

[Ragu]

Look for Pitt to climb to that secondary PA tier in the coming years

[11986]

how would a rest of PA all-star team have done vs Penn St in a dual this past year?

[lisa morales]

Poorly

[ionel]

5 minutes ago, 11986 said:

how would a rest of PA all-star team have done vs Penn St in a dual this past year?

If at the National Duals they would do great ... Penn St would be a no show.  

[Eagle26]

13 minutes ago, 11986 said:

how would a rest of PA all-star team have done vs Penn St in a dual this past year?

They’d probably get shut out, unfortunately. 

[Eagle26]

Here’s a good trivia question… other than Penn State, who was the last PA team to win a team trophy at D1 NCAAs and what year was it?

[The Kid]

Just now, Eagle26 said:

They’d probably get shut out, unfortunately. 

I guess you missed the psu 125lber losing to lehigh at ncaa's.  It must have been a fluke win.

[1032004]

10 minutes ago, 11986 said:

how would a rest of PA all-star team have done vs Penn St in a dual this past year?

Best possible scenario:

Seymour did beat Lilledahl

if we can count “Crooham” then he beats Davis 

Trephan did get a “win” over Kerk

 

[Eagle26]

5 minutes ago, The Kid said:

I guess you missed the psu 125lber losing to lehigh at ncaa's.  It must have been a fluke win.

I saw that… definitely a result that could go either way. I wouldn’t call it a fluke though. 

[Wrestleknownothing]

24 minutes ago, Eagle26 said:

Here’s a good trivia question… other than Penn State, who was the last PA team to win a team trophy at D1 NCAAs and what year was it?

Edinboro - third in 2015

[Elevator]

Penn had PSU in a dual in 2021 and did pretty well!  Kerk had the flu or something.  Overall, many say that PSU is getting more top recruits. 

#2 Penn State 20, Penn 16
125: Ryan Miller dec. Baylor Shunk (PSU), 8-2; Penn leads 3-0
133: #12 Michael Colaiocco maj. dec. Brandon Meredith (PSU), 10-2; Penn leads 7-0
141: #1 Nick Lee (PSU) dec. #28 Carmen Ferrante, 6-3; Penn leads 7-3
149: #20 Beau Bartlett (PSU) dec. #23 Anthony Artalona, 4-3 (TB); Penn leads 7-6
157: Doug Zapf dec. Terrell Barraclough (PSU), 4-2; Penn leads 10-6
165: #32 Creighton Edsell (PSU) dec. #33 Lucas Revano, 6-4 (SV), 10-9
174: #1 Carter Starocci (PSU) maj. dec. #21 Nick Incontrera, 13-3; Penn State leads 13-10
184: Donovon Ball (PSU) dec. Jesse Martinez, 11-4; Penn State leads 16-10
197: #4 Max Dean (PSU) maj. dec. Cole Urbas, 10-0; Penn State leads 20-10
285: Ben Goldin PENN win by forfeit; Penn State wins 20-16

 

[Eagle26]

2 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Edinboro - third in 2015

You were supposed to give others a chance first lol. 
 

Honestly, I was pretty sure that was the right answer, but I didn’t have the data to back it up. So I’m glad you chimed in to confirm it!

[Wrestleknownothing]

5 minutes ago, Eagle26 said:

You were supposed to give others a chance first lol. 
 

Honestly, I was pretty sure that was the right answer, but I didn’t have the data to back it up. So I’m glad you chimed in to confirm it!

Amen. I usually do, but then I did all that color coding and I think I got too excited. I will do better next time.

[Ragu]

2 hours ago, Elevator said:

Penn had PSU in a dual in 2021 and did pretty well!  Kerk had the flu or something.  Overall, many say that PSU is getting more top recruits. 

#2 Penn State 20, Penn 16
125: Ryan Miller dec. Baylor Shunk (PSU), 8-2; Penn leads 3-0
133: #12 Michael Colaiocco maj. dec. Brandon Meredith (PSU), 10-2; Penn leads 7-0
141: #1 Nick Lee (PSU) dec. #28 Carmen Ferrante, 6-3; Penn leads 7-3
149: #20 Beau Bartlett (PSU) dec. #23 Anthony Artalona, 4-3 (TB); Penn leads 7-6
157: Doug Zapf dec. Terrell Barraclough (PSU), 4-2; Penn leads 10-6
165: #32 Creighton Edsell (PSU) dec. #33 Lucas Revano, 6-4 (SV), 10-9
174: #1 Carter Starocci (PSU) maj. dec. #21 Nick Incontrera, 13-3; Penn State leads 13-10
184: Donovon Ball (PSU) dec. Jesse Martinez, 11-4; Penn State leads 16-10
197: #4 Max Dean (PSU) maj. dec. Cole Urbas, 10-0; Penn State leads 20-10
285: Ben Goldin PENN win by forfeit; Penn State wins 20-16

 

If they had a few more go their way. Penn could’ve had them

[BAC]

6 hours ago, nhs67 said:

I might do something like...

Tier 1 - Penn State (1)
Tier 2 - EMPTY
Tier 3 - Lehigh (15)
Tier 4 - Penn (21), Pitt (19)
Tier 5 - Drexel (32), Lock Haven(38), Bucknel (35)
Tier 6 - Edinboro(51)
Tier 7 - Franklin & Marshal (72), Clarion (74)
Tier 8 - EMPTY
Tier 9 - Bloomsburg (79)

To me, if you're a tier above or below, someone, you should expect a good dual.  There isn't a team coming close to Penn State.  This would have been for this last year.

It kind of defeats the point of having tiers if the second best school is third tier, you need 9 tiers for 11 schools, and some tiers are nonexistent. Does it really simplify anything? Maybe just do groupings.

PSU is tops of course.

Next level/grouping is Lehigh, Penn and Pitt, all roughly interchangeable.

Next is Drexel, Lock Haven, Bucknell, Edinboro.

Then F&M and Clarion.

Then Bloom.

[MPhillips]

3 minutes ago, BAC said:

Does it really simplify anything? Maybe just do groupings.

No. It's tiers. It's always tiers...

[Wrestleknownothing]

4 minutes ago, MPhillips said:

No. It's tiers. It's always tiers...

[nhs67]

22 minutes ago, BAC said:

It kind of defeats the point of having tiers if the second best school is third tier, you need 9 tiers for 11 schools, and some tiers are nonexistent. Does it really simplify anything? Maybe just do groupings.

PSU is tops of course.

Next level/grouping is Lehigh, Penn and Pitt, all roughly interchangeable.

Next is Drexel, Lock Haven, Bucknell, Edinboro.

Then F&M and Clarion.

Then Bloom.

You can do your groupings.  I will do my tiers.  You been around long enough to know how I do it and justify it. There are that many tiers because that is how it shook out this year.

I do like your groupings, though.

Edited April 7 by nhs67

[BAC]

20 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

You can do your groupings.  I will do my tiers.  You been around long enough to know how I do it and justify it.

Sigh.  I know, you're right, I need to let it go.  

Although I confess I'm struggling to see how F&M can be two tiers above *anyone* including Bloom.

Side note:  I remember a similar topic here many years ago, pre-Cael, where everyone was marveling how PSU was only 4th/5th best in PA.  (Behind, I think, Edinboro, Lehigh and Pitt, and arguably Penn/Bloom.)  How times change. 

Edited April 7 by BAC