Tariff Hypocrisy

[scourge165]

8 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Here’s one to add for tariff hypocrisy.  I like this game

 

 

 

Ok...this is gonna be it for me tonight...unless I can't sleep on these chairs, but I find this particularly funny when Kirk is defending the "liberation day" tariffs, yet his argument is all for targeted tariffs, but then also claims that corporations "Owe it to you," speaking to a citizen...to provide them jobs;

 

 

[1032004]

14 hours ago, 1032004 said:

Here’s one to add for tariff hypocrisy.  I like this game

 

 

 

lol this guy is on fire

 

 

 

[1032004]

 

 

 

[1032004]

And it’s not just about t-shirts

 

 

 

[Boring]

On 4/4/2025 at 11:59 PM, lisa morales said:

The fat man is the laughing stock of the world.  Meanwhile Justin Trudeau is banging his wife.

I don't think Trudeau is interested in eastern European prostitute mummies. 

[1032004]

 

 

[uncle bernard]

@Husker_Du

Care to respond to this? From one of your own!

 

[JimmySpeaks]

Taiwan is now on board. The list continues to grow 

 

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/taiwan-wont-take-reciprocal-tariffs-against-us-will-remove-trade-barriers-2025-04-06/

[billyhoyle]

On 4/5/2025 at 2:35 AM, scourge165 said:

1-Pretty sure he was talking about in the US

2-Bernie wasn't a socialist. 

He was a social Democrat. 

3-That's been tried, it's actually successful. 

It's not plausible when you have a massive deficit and 90% of your budget is Military Spending, Social Security and Medicare.

 

People call Bernie a socialist. Well...don't call us Free Market Capitalists any longer. 

Virtually all the same arguments used against one are used against the other. It's big Govt controlling the supply with inordinate tax rates. 

You want a new Cell Phones? Get ready to pay 500 more for it, OR build it in the US(that should take 5 years) and then you'll probably pay 750 more per phone(today's money) as you KNOW American's aren't working the hours and for the pay they do in China. 

So how do you think we'll make it work?

 

There are millions of jobs we can't fill now, but we're going to fill the skilled down labor, no unions,...and we're going to do it by letting in as few people as possible and deporting 10M(apparently)?

I think the tariffs are idiotic. But so pretty much every "idea" that Bernie has ever had on how to "help" the economy. 

[scourge165]

52 minutes ago, billyhoyle said:

I think the tariffs are idiotic. But so pretty much every "idea" that Bernie has ever had on how to "help" the economy. 

Ok...this isn't a referendum on Sanders and I wasn't arguing for any of his policies...though...as I've said, I think here is plenty of an argument for targeted tariffs. I also think there's a pretty strong argument on a National Healthcare System. It's the one thing we actually run rather efficiently. 

But that became moot when Obama didn't include a public option. 

[billyhoyle]

1 hour ago, scourge165 said:

Ok...this isn't a referendum on Sanders and I wasn't arguing for any of his policies...though...as I've said, I think here is plenty of an argument for targeted tariffs. I also think there's a pretty strong argument on a National Healthcare System. It's the one thing we actually run rather efficiently. 

But that became moot when Obama didn't include a public option. 

"Obama didn't include the public option." Way to rewrite history. They couldn't pass the ACA to include the public option because there weren't 60 senators who supported it.  And what Sanders want isn't a public option, it's the elimination of all private health insurance and an UK-style public healthcare system. 

[scourge165]

18 minutes ago, billyhoyle said:

"Obama didn't include the public option." Way to rewrite history. They couldn't pass the ACA to include the public option because there weren't 60 senators who supported it.  And what Sanders want isn't a public option, it's the elimination of all private health insurance and an UK-style public healthcare system. 

Ok, people say this, but you'll need to actually articulate where I 'reworte' history?

 

I never said Bernie wanted a public option and if you'll recall, Obama had 60 Democrats. He caved LONG before there was ANY vote and never offered a pubic option. 

 

What I said was a Universal option became moot when Obama didn't include a Public Option in the ACA despite a public option being WILDLY popular and...roughly ~75% of Americans in favor of it(it could have been 77%, it could have been 71%, I don't recall the exact number, but it was over 70%).

 

Why didn't it get included? Because...Obama needed the Health Insurance industry on it. 

In the 1970s, ~97-98 cents on the dollar from your Health Insurance Premiums went towards medical costs. 
By the time the ACA came around, it was about 73-74%. A public option where the Govt, again, in one of the few areas they're actually MORE efficient than the Market, that would have gutted Health Insurance Companies and they would have had to drop their rates and become more competitive.

In order to facilitate this, I think it would have been wise for the public option to cut off their "profits" at 10%. You use that to service the debt and you bring down insurance costs. 

 

 

What's just fact is the ACA did NOT have a public option, I NEVER said that was Bernie's end goal(it was most certainly his goal back then, but I didn't even say as much) and without the public option, you're not going to jump to a single payer system. There are the steps you would need.

 

But yeah, no re-writing history. I gave a very simple recounting of events.  This happened(or didn't in this case) and as such, this is unrealistic at this point. Like driving a car from point A to point B, but you're upset I didn't describe all the scenery along the way. 

Edited Sunday at 09:22 PM by scourge165

[JimmySpeaks]

Scrooge loves an essay.  That nobody reads 

[uncle bernard]

2 hours ago, billyhoyle said:

"Obama didn't include the public option." Way to rewrite history. They couldn't pass the ACA to include the public option because there weren't 60 senators who supported it.  And what Sanders want isn't a public option, it's the elimination of all private health insurance and an UK-style public healthcare system. 

1) They had the votes to pass the public option. They tanked it as a gesture to bipartisanship (also to placate their own donors). It was one of the stupidest decisions in political history - and why Obama was a complete failure. They sabotaged their own system in hopes the Republicans would be nicer to them moving forward - which of course they weren’t. 

2) Bernie’s plan didn’t eliminate all private insurance. It still allowed for supplemental private insurance in addition to M4A if people chose to do so. The UK has private health insurance. It’s not super popular because the essentials are already covered under the NHS. 

[JimmySpeaks]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/zimbabwe-president-to-suspend-tariffs-on-imports-from-the-united-states/ar-AA1CoCZA?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=a78efc3144f94833bfb12f4d046c9faf&ei=28
 

 

Zimbabwe is on board     

[scourge165]

5 hours ago, uncle bernard said:

1) They had the votes to pass the public option. They tanked it as a gesture to bipartisanship (also to placate their own donors). It was one of the stupidest decisions in political history - and why Obama was a complete failure. They sabotaged their own system in hopes the Republicans would be nicer to them moving forward - which of course they weren’t. 

2) Bernie’s plan didn’t eliminate all private insurance. It still allowed for supplemental private insurance in addition to M4A if people chose to do so. The UK has private health insurance. It’s not super popular because the essentials are already covered under the NHS. 

The only place I'd push back is...I don't know if they did have the votes. 

Just for starters you had...Nelson, I believe he made his money in Insurance. 

I also think calling Obama a complete failure is...inaccurate. 

 

In any event, Obama did not include the public option in the final bill and it passed...strictly along party lines, 60/40,(well, 60-39, 1 abstained, likely a protest vote, but I don't recall). 

 

2-You can absolutely buy private insurance and many already do. It's baffling to me how we can go through THIS economic crash...but it'd be too damaging to the economy to raise taxes a little bit and provide healthcare?

You can wipe away 20% of people's retirement funds, but...gee, better not raise taxes 1-2% so you can ensure every American is insured? 

We spend SO much more than every other Country. And the waiting times and standard of care...it's worse if Venezuala is your barometer. Not sure why we always use 3rd world countries for our examples though.

How about the rest of the first world? But hey, we'll not make certain people lose their 401K and they can't afford their insurance. 

 

You may think Obama was a failure, but...contrast him with Obama and...he looks like the best of Washington, Jefferson, Eisenhower, FDR and Clinton. 

[JimmySpeaks]

[JimmySpeaks]

If you haven’t ever been in one go Visit a Veterans hospital. The concept is a marvelous one as they’re gov funded and “free” to the great people that signed up to protect this country.  They deserve far better.  A VA is what a hospital becomes when it’s run by the government. Crapholes.  

[Bigbrog]

53 minutes ago, JimmySpeaks said:

If you haven’t ever been in one go Visit a Veterans hospital. The concept is a marvelous one as they’re gov funded and “free” to the great people that signed up to protect this country.  They deserve far better.  A VA is what a hospital becomes when it’s run by the government. Crapholes.  

And it's oddly weird how some VA's are better than others...which I never understood

[scourge165]

44 minutes ago, Bigbrog said:

And it's oddly weird how some VA's are better than others...which I never understood

I'd never seen anything but people trashing the VA. My Uncle loves his. He's been in AZ, Minnesota...FL...lots of places, but primarily he goes to an AZ and Minnesota VA now. 

He's also a happy stoner who is 82 and I've never seen him complain about his Drs. But he really loves the ones he's been to. 

Edited Monday at 04:23 PM by scourge165

[Ohio Elite]

57 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

I'd never seen anything but people trashing the VA. My Uncle loves his. He's been in AZ, Minnesota...FL...lots of places, but primarily he goes to an AZ and Minnesota VA now. 

He's also a happy stoner who is 82 and I've never seen him complain about his Drs. But he really loves the ones he's been to. 

I go to the VA here in Columbus, not gonna lie, they treat me pretty good.

[scourge165]

4 minutes ago, Ohio Elite said:

I go to the VA here in Columbus, not gonna lie, they treat me pretty good.

Good. They should treat our vets well.

I hope Doug Collins walks back his proposed cuts. I don't think that's an area we should be cutting. You fight for this Country...they can take care of you. 

[JimmySpeaks]

My father, a veteran of two wars and a lifer in the national guard was very proud of the benefits he received. He used to brag about them to me.  Having taken him to a number of appointments there was a very noticeable difference in the capabilities and concern from the nurses and drs. Some of equipment used was also outdated and even broken.  When it came time to get hearing aids he ordered them and waited six months. When they arrived they didn’t work.  He sent them back and again waited six months for them to return.  This while he easily could have afforded them on his own. When it came time for elder care and rehab of course he wanted to do it at the VA.  He was checked into a small room with another patient that was divided by a curtain.  While my mom and sister were visiting him his roommate was delivered a can of beer. Upon finishing it he stood up and pissed in the drain on the floor under the curtain. The stains on the floor showed that this wasn’t the first time it had happened.  When I arrived I put him in a wheel chair, drove him to an elderly care facilty and checked him in.   He wasn’t one to thank people or to ever show emotion.  He did both on that day.  I’m glad there are people that are having decent interactions but there are many that don’t.  Imo they’re run terribly and no where near the standards our veterans deserve.  

[1032004]

 

 

[red viking]

21 hours ago, JimmySpeaks said:

My father, a veteran of two wars and a lifer in the national guard was very proud of the benefits he received. He used to brag about them to me.  Having taken him to a number of appointments there was a very noticeable difference in the capabilities and concern from the nurses and drs. Some of equipment used was also outdated and even broken.  When it came time to get hearing aids he ordered them and waited six months. When they arrived they didn’t work.  He sent them back and again waited six months for them to return.  This while he easily could have afforded them on his own. When it came time for elder care and rehab of course he wanted to do it at the VA.  He was checked into a small room with another patient that was divided by a curtain.  While my mom and sister were visiting him his roommate was delivered a can of beer. Upon finishing it he stood up and pissed in the drain on the floor under the curtain. The stains on the floor showed that this wasn’t the first time it had happened.  When I arrived I put him in a wheel chair, drove him to an elderly care facilty and checked him in.   He wasn’t one to thank people or to ever show emotion.  He did both on that day.  I’m glad there are people that are having decent interactions but there are many that don’t.  Imo they’re run terribly and no where near the standards our veterans deserve.  

Agreed. We should put more resources toward taking care of our veterans. Use some of that fat money going to contractors and use it on veteran care instead.