Confusing time to be a Buckeye fan

[MPhillips]

2 minutes ago, ionel said:

I've learned to live with it...

[nhs67]

3 hours ago, MPhillips said:

Posted by...,

...

3 hours ago, pokemonster said:

That is a coincidence and doesn't have anything to do with pokemon 

I will always read your name as Pokemon...sturrrr from here on...

[BruceyB]

2 hours ago, MPhillips said:

When Tom decides to go, I believe it's going to be very difficult for OSU to be anything other than OSU with the coaching staff at present...

If I'm understanding you correctly..

If Coleman Scott took over for John Smith, OKST wouldn't have likely been anything other than the same OKST, just with a new name at Head Coach.

Likewise, if Tom Ryan retired and Jaggers, Stieber, or anyone else took the helm, it's unlikely that there would be a notable improvement.

I think it's fair to put both Iowa and Ohio State in the same category (and Oklahoma State before the big change). It's easy to say "replace the head coach" but the real problem is there aren't many guys that you would expect to have any more success if given the keys to the program. I think if Ryan is considering taking a step back anytime soon, Schwab is a very legitimate candidate. I'd be curious what he could do with at a bigger program with higher-end recruits. He seems to be of a similar "family first" kind of team mindset.

[cl415]

Stieber will be the next head coach and it’s not going to be long before it happens. His guys have been tOSU’s strength since he joined the staff. 

[Eagle26]

Maybe they would throw some big money around to get DT to switch OSUs? He’s from Ohio. That would be the best move they could make after Tom Ryan retires. FWIW, I think Ryan is a great coach, and I think they will be fine as is. I do agree they should hire a big name young guy who is outside the program to get on staff and/or get some bigger names to join the RTC

[scourge165]

12 hours ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Imagine if Ryan stepped down and they hired Spencer Lee to replace him…

Imagine there's no Jimmy

It's easy if you try...

Every thread isn't about Penn State...

Or little Spencer Lee-ee

Imagine all the people...

talking wrestling in peace...HEHE

 

They may say I'm a dreamer...

but I'm not the only one

Some day Caaael will join us....

And Jimmy Cinnabon will be donnnnnnneeeeee

[scourge165]

7 hours ago, BruceyB said:

If I'm understanding you correctly..

If Coleman Scott took over for John Smith, OKST wouldn't have likely been anything other than the same OKST, just with a new name at Head Coach.

Likewise, if Tom Ryan retired and Jaggers, Stieber, or anyone else took the helm, it's unlikely that there would be a notable improvement.

I think it's fair to put both Iowa and Ohio State in the same category (and Oklahoma State before the big change). It's easy to say "replace the head coach" but the real problem is there aren't many guys that you would expect to have any more success if given the keys to the program. I think if Ryan is considering taking a step back anytime soon, Schwab is a very legitimate candidate. I'd be curious what he could do with at a bigger program with higher-end recruits. He seems to be of a similar "family first" kind of team mindset.

You COULD absolutely go Kyle Snyder though and ...that'd be an outstanding hire and I think you'd just get the best of all worlds.

1-Outside Jordan Burroughs, nobody is a bigger name...in my opinion. 

The ONE guy that was...he was the guy you should have found the keys to whatever Brinks Truck you have and backed it up for. I mean, a St Parris guy...who is REAL similar to Cael in terms of style, more accomplished, maybe a better MFS Wrestler, I won't say the BEST Wrestler from Ohio ever, but lets just say the best since...2000.

2-He wrestled for Ryan...he is maybe the best Wrestler in Ohio State History...you could at least argue going 3/1/1/1 as a small HWT and '97 with J'den Cox and Gadsen is as good as Stieber(but you really don't have to as you're not making a ranking, just hiring a guy). 

3-He's got the best of both Worlds. He was there with Stieber, OSUs last title, in fact, I think he clinched it, but he's also spent years under Cael at the NLWC(even if that's not "technically" under Cael).

 

4-His style works for...every weight. 

Side rant-The "funk," and passing the leg and all that, it's essential in modern Wrestling. BUT, the issue I have is so many guys, when they have the TD stopped, they go from Heavy Hips and just stuffing the guy, MAYBE even go to a front head and look for an angle and catch that leg and do a basic, simple, boring go behind.

But what guys do, and it seems like it happens in SO many late TDs, they stop a shot, they have the guy stretched out and then instead of just basic keeping the head stuffed, heavy hips, wearing them out and trying to break that lock, they want to end up head to ankle and scrambling and now that's a 50/50 position...and I understand if you have a guy flat and you start digging that leg out with their head trapped inside like Jaggers and Askren, now Hardy and Lovett do, but when the head is outside, it just drives me nuts....

 

But most importantly, he keeps his feet moving, hands on, constantly attacking or moving forward, in and out, shot fake, shot fake, shot, low single, hi-c, double, he's won at the highest levels with that approach.

(Edit-I just re-reading this for my inevitable spelling mistakes or typos and this made me think of Carter Starocci. Just always in position and coming at you). 

 

--I would think you'd be looking at the '28 games as Snyder's last run, so Ryan gets a few more years with a loaded class and now he can go out with Davino, Welsh, Feldman, several other studs and now Kyle Snyder takes over the Flagship school for the 2nd best state when it comes to pumping out Wrestling talent. 

And at that point, I'd be looking at bringing Jason Nolf with me and keeping Logan Stieber. Hell, by then, Davino may be a great Grad assistant for the little guys or Luke Lillendahl.

 

Maybe Nolf works with the RTC, I don't know. But you add credibility on all levels and Tom Ryan retires having won a NC at Ohio State, getting a new facility built and that program in as good of shape as it could be. 

 

The other two...most obvious options would be Taylor. Now in fairness, it would be kinda like Cael to take a job and push aside the guy who has a long history with that school(Bobby Douglas=Coleman Scott in this case) and then leave after a few years for that big paycheck and the easier job with more Wrestling  AND it's so much easier to transfer, he wouldn't have to have a class wait like the Va Tech 5 did or RS like he did when he followed Cael, but I think he's really building something there and will have little interest in leaving. 

The other choice is Jordan Burroughs and I don't see him being a better option at Ohio State because...he's a Jersey kid who wrestled at Nebraska. I think he'd do great, maybe he joins Kyle as well or in place of Nolf and he runs the RTC, but...these are simple and easy changes if you have ~10M to get you started and you can get a few million a year...and most programs like that can(there are like...4 programs like that, PSU, Iowa, Okie St and Ohio State and MAYBE Iowa St). 

 

 

So...yeah, that's what I'd do, that's why I'd do it. Lots of details to be ironed out. Maybe Luke Lillendahl or Marcus Blaze is part of your RTC and coaching the lightweights by then, but that's the vision I'd have and I'd be looking at if...literally anyone cared what I thought Ohio State should do...and I doubt most people will have even read this far, so that...that is not likely to be a large number!

Edited Tuesday at 11:45 AM by scourge165

[pokemonster]

1 hour ago, Eagle26 said:

Maybe they would throw some big money around to get DT to switch OSUs? He’s from Ohio. That would be the best move they could make after Tom Ryan retires. FWIW, I think Ryan is a great coach, and I think they will be fine as is. I do agree they should hire a big name young guy who is outside the program to get on staff and/or get some bigger names to join the RTC

This was really the move for Ohio State, but they missed the window. I don't blame them as Tom Ryan is doing well. It's hard to predict if DT would take the program to another level. I don't see DT bouncing from Okie State. 

[MPhillips]

8 hours ago, BruceyB said:

If Coleman Scott took over for John Smith, OKST wouldn't have likely been anything other than the same OKST, just with a new name at Head Coach.

I never mentioned OKST?

6 hours ago, cl415 said:

Stieber will be the next head coach and it’s not going to be long before it happens.

No. It will be Jaggers...

 

[scourge165]

13 minutes ago, pokemonster said:

This was really the move for Ohio State, but they missed the window. I don't blame them as Tom Ryan is doing well. It's hard to predict if DT would take the program to another level. I don't see DT bouncing from Okie State. 

Is it though?

All due respect to Ryan, he's...not David Taylor. 

Kids when they think about who they'd want to Wrestle for, they're laid back and get guys ready, they view it as a game, but they also get the most out of you. They're strict with drinking and partying. My GUESS would be they're both mature enough to know the real rule is...don't be an embarrassment. 

 

But David Taylor...back in Ohio...with those facilities? The 2nd best Wrestling State in the Country and a team RIGHT NOW that's stacked and set up to be a top 3 team next year before they pick up a...Facundo to Wrestle '57/'65 for them and probably another high AA or two to fill out their roster, a roster bringing Welsh back into the lineup and where Feldman is likely the favorite, where you had a Freshmen at '97...

 

Programs in the best shape right now for the next 5 years are, in order, PSU, Iowa, Okie State JUST barely behind Iowa and then Ohio State.

When David Taylor was hired at Okie State, I'd say it was PSU, Ohio State, Iowa and then Cornell, Iowa State, maybe Minnesota and then possibly Okie State.

 

Taylor has made a huge jump at Okie St. Add Jax Forrest and the Dreshaun Ross to the lineup in 2 years as Feldman and Mendez are graduating? It'd be ridiculous. And that's assuming LaDarion Lockett, Landon Robideau and Sergio Vega don't flip and go with Taylor. 

 

 

I know what you're saying, there's no guarantees, but...he was as close as you can get. 

[Cowboy08]

15 hours ago, BAC said:

My criticism of tOSU's talent development is largely the same as I have of Iowa:  (1) it's only hiring it's own alumni as coaches, and (2) it's allowed its RTC to lag.

Regarding the first point, you have either Tom Ryan, or guys who've gotten their college wrestling education from Tom Ryan (e.g. Jaggers, Stieber, Jordan).  I'm sure they're good coaches individually, but taken together, it's too much overlap, resulting in a one-size-fits-all approach that works for some but won't work for others. Way too many high-end recruits have been stuck in neutral for this not to be true.

This was the EXACT problem with Oklahoma State and why they became so stagnant.  It was John Smith and his style FOREVER and all of his guys assisting (esposito, perry, coleman, caldwell etc).  They brought in a fresh perspective from outside of the OSU family and it has completely changed the dynamic of the program.  John Smith was a great coach, but sometimes you just need a new voice.  If Ohio State hired Spencer, Burroughs or Dake it would have the same effect as DT at Oklahoma State IMO

[enterdisplayname]

1 hour ago, scourge165 said:

You COULD absolutely go Kyle Snyder though and ...that'd be an outstanding hire and I think you'd just get the best of all worlds.

 

I stopped right here...first sentence.

 

The only thing Tom ever talks about is loyalty. Kyle left Ohio State for Penn State. 

 

I have to imagine that bridge is burned. 

[jeffrideal]

2 hours ago, scourge165 said:

You COULD absolutely go Kyle Snyder though and ...that'd be an outstanding hire and I think you'd just get the best of all worlds.

1-Outside Jordan Burroughs, nobody is a bigger name...in my opinion. 

The ONE guy that was...he was the guy you should have found the keys to whatever Brinks Truck you have and backed it up for. I mean, a St Parris guy...who is REAL similar to Cael in terms of style, more accomplished, maybe a better MFS Wrestler, I won't say the BEST Wrestler from Ohio ever, but lets just say the best since...2000.

2-He wrestled for Ryan...he is maybe the best Wrestler in Ohio State History...you could at least argue going 3/1/1/1 as a small HWT and '97 with J'den Cox and Gadsen is as good as Stieber(but you really don't have to as you're not making a ranking, just hiring a guy). 

3-He's got the best of both Worlds. He was there with Stieber, OSUs last title, in fact, I think he clinched it, but he's also spent years under Cael at the NLWC(even if that's not "technically" under Cael).

 

4-His style works for...every weight. 

Side rant-The "funk," and passing the leg and all that, it's essential in modern Wrestling. BUT, the issue I have is so many guys, when they have the TD stopped, they go from Heavy Hips and just stuffing the guy, MAYBE even go to a front head and look for an angle and catch that leg and do a basic, simple, boring go behind.

But what guys do, and it seems like it happens in SO many late TDs, they stop a shot, they have the guy stretched out and then instead of just basic keeping the head stuffed, heavy hips, wearing them out and trying to break that lock, they want to end up head to ankle and scrambling and now that's a 50/50 position...and I understand if you have a guy flat and you start digging that leg out with their head trapped inside like Jaggers and Askren, now Hardy and Lovett do, but when the head is outside, it just drives me nuts....

 

But most importantly, he keeps his feet moving, hands on, constantly attacking or moving forward, in and out, shot fake, shot fake, shot, low single, hi-c, double, he's won at the highest levels with that approach.

(Edit-I just re-reading this for my inevitable spelling mistakes or typos and this made me think of Carter Starocci. Just always in position and coming at you). 

 

--I would think you'd be looking at the '28 games as Snyder's last run, so Ryan gets a few more years with a loaded class and now he can go out with Davino, Welsh, Feldman, several other studs and now Kyle Snyder takes over the Flagship school for the 2nd best state when it comes to pumping out Wrestling talent. 

And at that point, I'd be looking at bringing Jason Nolf with me and keeping Logan Stieber. Hell, by then, Davino may be a great Grad assistant for the little guys or Luke Lillendahl.

 

Maybe Nolf works with the RTC, I don't know. But you add credibility on all levels and Tom Ryan retires having won a NC at Ohio State, getting a new facility built and that program in as good of shape as it could be. 

 

The other two...most obvious options would be Taylor. Now in fairness, it would be kinda like Cael to take a job and push aside the guy who has a long history with that school(Bobby Douglas=Coleman Scott in this case) and then leave after a few years for that big paycheck and the easier job with more Wrestling  AND it's so much easier to transfer, he wouldn't have to have a class wait like the Va Tech 5 did or RS like he did when he followed Cael, but I think he's really building something there and will have little interest in leaving. 

The other choice is Jordan Burroughs and I don't see him being a better option at Ohio State because...he's a Jersey kid who wrestled at Nebraska. I think he'd do great, maybe he joins Kyle as well or in place of Nolf and he runs the RTC, but...these are simple and easy changes if you have ~10M to get you started and you can get a few million a year...and most programs like that can(there are like...4 programs like that, PSU, Iowa, Okie St and Ohio State and MAYBE Iowa St). 

 

 

So...yeah, that's what I'd do, that's why I'd do it. Lots of details to be ironed out. Maybe Luke Lillendahl or Marcus Blaze is part of your RTC and coaching the lightweights by then, but that's the vision I'd have and I'd be looking at if...literally anyone cared what I thought Ohio State should do...and I doubt most people will have even read this far, so that...that is not likely to be a large number!

How about Kyle Dake?  Lots of Ohio roots.  

[scourge165]

12 hours ago, enterdisplayname said:

I stopped right here...first sentence.

 

The only thing Tom ever talks about is loyalty. Kyle left Ohio State for Penn State. 

 

I have to imagine that bridge is burned. 

Tom Ryan doesn't have to like it. Did John Smith get to pick his successor?

[scourge165]

11 hours ago, jeffrideal said:

How about Kyle Dake?  Lots of Ohio roots.  

What are his roots in Ohio? His Mothers family?

I'm starting to think of Dake as the Aaron Rodgers of Wrestlers. 

Great athlete...some ideas that are a little out there. 

[HarryConnickJr]

1 hour ago, scourge165 said:

What are his roots in Ohio? His Mothers family?

I'm starting to think of Dake as the Aaron Rodgers of Wrestlers. 

Great athlete...some ideas that are a little out there. 

He’s young, what can you do?

[scourge165]

1 hour ago, HarryConnickJr said:

He’s young, what can you do?

He's 34. Not that young. 

[wrestle87]

3 hours ago, scourge165 said:

Tom Ryan doesn't have to like it. Did John Smith get to pick his successor?

John Smith did the opposite, strung along a loyal former athlete and kicked him out by the side of the road.

Nothing against coleman but that was ultimately a good move for the program.  There’s no question though, coleman got done dirty.

[wrestle87]

15 hours ago, enterdisplayname said:

I stopped right here...first sentence.

 

The only thing Tom ever talks about is loyalty. Kyle left Ohio State for Penn State. 

 

I have to imagine that bridge is burned. 

This is true, but I also have to imagine if T Ryan is no longer coaching, it’s not by choice.  

Snyder is way too quiet of a personality to be successful as a head coach.  I think he would be the sort of fit for Ohio State that Zalesky was for Iowa.

[MPhillips]

9 hours ago, wrestle87 said:

I also have to imagine if T Ryan is no longer coaching, it’s not by choice.

Unless he becomes a criminal he will never get fired...EVER.

[Rassling2]

On 3/24/2025 at 5:43 PM, MPhillips said:

When Ryan goes it will be Jaggers. There will be no change... Sasso is not what OSU needs as an assistant...

 

[scourge165]

11 hours ago, wrestle87 said:

This is true, but I also have to imagine if T Ryan is no longer coaching, it’s not by choice.  

Snyder is way too quiet of a personality to be successful as a head coach.  I think he would be the sort of fit for Ohio State that Zalesky was for Iowa.

I don't really see Cael as a loud personality. Or that as a requirement.

[scourge165]

1 hour ago, MPhillips said:

Unless he becomes a criminal he will never get fired...EVER.

I would venture to guess the same was said about John Smith at Okie State.

They don't have to frame it as him being fired. They can frame it as the good old "spending more time with his family." 

[MPhillips]

25 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

I would venture to guess the same was said about John Smith at Okie State.

They don't have to frame it as him being fired. They can frame it as the good old "spending more time with his family." 

33yrs VS 18yrs...

[wrestlingfan22]

On 3/24/2025 at 9:20 PM, flyingcement said:

Some are great at handling certain aspects of a program.  Maybe he wasn't meant to be the overarching generalist.

Roselli has had a positive impact so far at Pitt, and time will tell exactly how it works out