PSU parity eventually

[cangemi]

Penn State . Rooting against now. Love program and how they raise good men. but want parity for sport. Maybe the increase in high school talent helps. So many. All can't go psu?

Iowa next year 

Aj, Ayala, Arnold,  3 can win vs psu

Recruits coming in 

TRANSFERs

--‐---------------------------------'x

Ok state

Few years getting great recruits

---------------------------------------

Wishful thinking since you see psu recruits and who is coming back. I do think high school kids getting better will be answer as thet get spread. Will be good sport for iowa or okie to challenge

 

[Pinnacle]

Its NIL and the portal that concentrates talent at a handful of big programs.

Winning under these new conditions should become trickier. 

[RawDog]

Gonna be a few years for OK state to contend for a title.

I don't see Iowa contending next year either.

Ohio State probably has the best chance to compete with Penn State next year.  Especially if they can learn how to use the transfer portal.

Iowa State might be sneaky good next year. 

Would be nice to have a competitive team race.

[TylerDurden]

1 hour ago, Pinnacle said:

Its NIL and the portal that concentrates talent at a handful of big programs.

Winning under these new conditions should become trickier. 

It was concentrated well before NIL and the portal. The teams may shift, but the concentration was there. Depending on your criteria to evaluate talent (team results, national champs, etc.), you could make the case that wrestling has always had the most concentration of talent amongst a handful of schools in men's DI sports. 

Without doing the research, I'm betting that between the handful of Iowa, Oklahoma State, Iowa State, Penn State and Ohio State there are more team and individual titles that just about everyone else combined. I know that's true for team titles. 

Heck, it might be true just between Iowa and Oklahoma State. 

Edited 9 hours ago by TylerDurden

[manatree]

9 minutes ago, TylerDurden said:

It was concentrated well before NIL and the portal. The teams may shift, but the concentration was there. Depending on your criteria to evaluate talent (team results, national champs, etc.), you could make the case that wrestling has always had the most concentration of talent amongst a handful of schools in men's DI sports. 

Without doing the research, I'm betting that between the handful of Iowa, Oklahoma State, Iowa State, Penn State and Ohio State there are more team and individual titles that just about everyone else combined. I know that's true for team titles. 

Heck, it might be true just between Iowa and Oklahoma State. 

Oklahoma State    34        
Iowa        24    
Penn State    12
Iowa State    8
Oklahoma    7
Minnesota    3
Arizona State    1
Cornell (IA)    1
Indiana        1
Michigan State    1
Northern Iowa    1
Ohio State    1
 

[JimmyCinnabon]

1 hour ago, Pinnacle said:

Its NIL and the portal that concentrates talent at a handful of big programs.

Winning under these new conditions should become trickier. 

I actually think the portal and NIL has spread out talent in football despite what I thought would happen. I can see the talent being spread out in wrestling the same way.

[Truzzcat]

2 hours ago, JimmyCinnabon said:

I actually think the portal and NIL has spread out talent in football despite what I thought would happen. I can see the talent being spread out in wrestling the same way.

Football has a lot more money across the board, for wrestling I think it's much more consolidated to the top programs. I could see someone like Burroughs going to a "smaller" program and getting a big financial backing something similar to what Deion got for going to Colorado obviously on a much smaller scale. Ultimately it comes down to finding people to back your program and I am just not sure that more than 8-10 programs can do that to a scale in which they can put together podium caliber teams. Especially when you look at the inflation we are already seeing. Lock haven raises 3.5 million, but you have Bo Bassett reportedly getting 5 himself. 

[Caveira]

In football you can be a star at a small school xyz….. and be a first round pick.   Playing time is super important.   Wrestling doesn’t have that dynamic.  
 

There have been rumors about weird pre NIL otc $$$ for years as well.  I think we forgot that.  

[The Kid]

7 minutes ago, Caveira said:

In football you can be a star at a small school xyz….. and be a first round pick.   Playing time is super important.   Wrestling doesn’t have that dynamic.  
 

There have been rumors about weird pre NIL otc $$$ for years as well.  I think we forgot that.  

The talent pool in football is deep.  The 15th ranked running back could make the NFL.  The 15th ranked wrestler at 133 or whatever weight class will never be recruited by the elite programs. 

It's night and day difference.   

[Pinnacle]

3 hours ago, TylerDurden said:

It was concentrated well before NIL and the portal. The teams may shift, but the concentration was there. Depending on your criteria to evaluate talent (team results, national champs, etc.), you could make the case that wrestling has always had the most concentration of talent amongst a handful of schools in men's DI sports. 

Without doing the research, I'm betting that between the handful of Iowa, Oklahoma State, Iowa State, Penn State and Ohio State there are more team and individual titles that just about everyone else combined. I know that's true for team titles. 

Heck, it might be true just between Iowa and Oklahoma State. 

It has always been concentrated, but it seems to be getting even more concentrated lately. 

[Elevator]

5 hours ago, Pinnacle said:

Its NIL and the portal that concentrates talent at a handful of big programs.

Winning under these new conditions should become trickier. 

Doubt it.  Hasn't it always been the case of a few magnet programs dominating - even if PSU only joined that crowd with Cael and his team coaching?

[Elevator]

45 minutes ago, Pinnacle said:

It has always been concentrated, but it seems to be getting even more concentrated lately. 

Data?  Doubt this.

[mad_rascal]

6 hours ago, cangemi said:

Penn State . Rooting against now. Love program and how they raise good men. but want parity for sport. Maybe the increase in high school talent helps. So many. All can't go psu?

Iowa next year 

Aj, Ayala, Arnold,  3 can win vs psu

Recruits coming in 

TRANSFERs

--‐---------------------------------'x

Ok state

Few years getting great recruits

---------------------------------------

Wishful thinking since you see psu recruits and who is coming back. I do think high school kids getting better will be answer as thet get spread. Will be good sport for iowa or okie to challenge

 

I like how efficient your sentences are.

[Pinnacle]

1 hour ago, Elevator said:

Doubt it.  Hasn't it always been the case of a few magnet programs dominating - even if PSU only joined that crowd with Cael and his team coaching?

 

1 hour ago, Elevator said:

Data?  Doubt this.

Have you heard Sanderson speak on this subject?

[CHROMEBIRD]

6 hours ago, TylerDurden said:

It was concentrated well before NIL and the portal. The teams may shift, but the concentration was there. Depending on your criteria to evaluate talent (team results, national champs, etc.), you could make the case that wrestling has always had the most concentration of talent amongst a handful of schools in men's DI sports. 

Without doing the research, I'm betting that between the handful of Iowa, Oklahoma State, Iowa State, Penn State and Ohio State there are more team and individual titles that just about everyone else combined. I know that's true for team titles. 

Heck, it might be true just between Iowa and Oklahoma State. 

That's true, but there's no denying that NIL and the transfer portal has exacerbated things for wrestling. D1 wrestling is becoming a reflection of what we see in other sports: the biggest, wealthiest programs attract the best talent and everyone else becomes a feeder school. If a kid from a small program makes a deep run at Nationals and AAs (or better), there's a 100% chance that deep pocketed programs will try to lure him away.

The whole concept of having to re-recruit your roster at the end of every season is exhausting. Maybe the NCAA should impose a transfer fee, similar to what the UWW does when athletes switch nationalities. New school reimburses the old program for the loss of talent (sliding scale based on the athlete's prior performance at the school) and investment in training & resources that went into developing them. The NCAA would probably get sued for it, though.

[666]

I think parity is overrated. I like when a team is so dominant that it unites fans of the other teams against it.  That was Iowa for a long time, now it's been PSU for a long time. Back in granddaddy's day it was Oklahoma State, lol. 

Edited 2 hours ago by 666

[AgaveMaria]

Would you also have been rooting against Iowa while Gable's guys were winning 9 NCAA titles in a row?

How about Oklahoma State before that?

 

[Bigbrog]

I have a question...is all it takes is a bunch of millionaires/billionaire to give a lot of money to a school collective/NIL to instantly make them successful....or, orrr...is there a lot more to it and the successful programs have always had a winning formula even before NIL that other schools haven't been able to figure out???? 

[alex1fly]

8/10 PSU wrestlers are ranked #1 or #2, according to this site. I can't remember any team ever having such a stacked lineup. So yeah I'd say talent is more concentrated.

OSU and Iowa combined have 9 wrestlers in the top 3, for comparison. And 5 of those are senior transfers for just this season.

[Truzzcat]

I don't really even mind if PSU wins 10 more in a row I would just like to be able to convince myself of paths other teams could do it.

[cangemi]

2 hours ago, mad_rascal said:

I like how efficient your sentences are.

Thanks