I enjoyed the Luke Lilledahl championship contender era

[Caveira]

25 minutes ago, MPhillips said:

If he finishes third the B1G and wins a National Champioship?

You.   

37 minutes ago, Caveira said:

He is as dominant as Spencer Lee was his freshmen year?

Responding  to this. 
 

what am I missing.  It seems hard to interpret that differently.  

Edited Sunday at 10:39 PM by Caveira

[MPhillips]

2 minutes ago, Caveira said:

what am I missing.  

Seems like a bit of a rhetorical question but I'll give it a shot.  The f'ing question mark at the end of my sentence? 

[Caveira]

Just now, MPhillips said:

Seems like a bit of a rhetorical question but I'll give it a shot.  The f'ing question mark at the end of my sentence? 

Ok. Still no.  Nowhere near as dominant as Spencer Lee if he finishes 3 at big and wins an ncaa title.  Not unless he learns to tf/bonus almost everyone he touches.  

[JimmyCinnabon]

6 hours ago, 1032004 said:

Wasn’t Lilledahl also a world champ or at least silver?  He still has a chance to win NCAA’s this year (along with like 10 other guys), which would put him with potential to get 4 titles and thus I don’t see the problem with comparing him to Spencer Lee.  

I am as big a PSU fan as there is but there is no comparison to Spencer. Everyone knew Spencer’s floor was multiple time NCAA champ out of high school. Luke is a heck of a talent but Spencer’s level was crazy out the gate. 

[MPhillips]

9 minutes ago, Caveira said:

Ok. Still no.  Nowhere near as dominant as Spencer Lee if he finishes 3 at big and wins an ncaa title.  Not unless he learns to tf/bonus almost everyone he touches.  

Totally agree...

[BruceyB]

3 minutes ago, MPhillips said:

Totally agree...

Play nice.

[Truzzcat]

7 hours ago, 1032004 said:

Wasn’t Lilledahl also a world champ or at least silver?  He still has a chance to win NCAA’s this year (along with like 10 other guys), which would put him with potential to get 4 titles and thus I don’t see the problem with comparing him to Spencer Lee.  

Lilledahl is the most credentialed age level competitor we have ever had aside from maybe daton but some of datons success came in college. He is a 2x world champ and 2x world silver and he has one more year of u20 eligibility. changing your opinion on luke after the Mccrone loss vs after the peterson loss makes absolutely zero sense to me. Ramos and Vrob have been 1 and 2 for me since the peterson loss and I understand using that to detract from Luke. Getting cradled by Mccrone in a match he was handling does not change my perception of him in the slightest. He is a guy who showed weaknesses on bottom in high school and is utterly dominant on his feet. Mccrone is probably the only guy at the weight that's actually a threat to turn him but their is a huge disparity in their neutral ability so unless he gets cradled again I do not really see it being an issue.

[MPhillips]

2 minutes ago, Truzzcat said:

Getting cradled by Mccrone in a match he was handling does not change my perception of him in the slightest.

Agreed. Until it happens again...

[1032004]

53 minutes ago, JimmyCinnabon said:

I am as big a PSU fan as there is but there is no comparison to Spencer. Everyone knew Spencer’s floor was multiple time NCAA champ out of high school. Luke is a heck of a talent but Spencer’s level was crazy out the gate. 

“Comparison” doesn’t mean exactly the same.  No, not as “dominant,” but he’s a 125 pounder that wrestled in PA and was a world champ with a chance to be a 3-4x’er.   That’s “comparable” to me, but everyone is welcome to their opinion 

[Caveira]

1 hour ago, Truzzcat said:

is utterly dominant on his feet.

It’s like somehow he is a tf bonus machine without being a tf bonus machine somehow.   His biggest win is 4-2 v #10.  
 

Help me understand how he is utterly dominant on his feet?    Keep in mind a td is worth 50% more than the last 50 years of wrestling…… 
 

he has 8-2 Dec v #41

4-1 v #18

9-3 v #139 “utterly dominant”

5-4 v #48 

4-2 v #10

 

[1032004]

31 minutes ago, Caveira said:

It’s like somehow he is a tf bonus machine without being a tf bonus machine somehow.   His biggest win is 4-2 v #10.  
 

Help me understand how he is utterly dominant on his feet?    Keep in mind a td is worth 50% more than the last 50 years of wrestling…… 
 

he has 8-2 Dec v #41

4-1 v #18

9-3 v #139 “utterly dominant”

5-4 v #48 

4-2 v #10

 

You left out the 22-6 tech fall over the guy who has a win over the guy that pinned him, and might be ranked in the top 10 next week

[Caveira]

1 minute ago, 1032004 said:

You left out the 22-6 tech fall over the guy who has a win over the guy that pinned him, and might be ranked in the top 10 next week

I guess that dependent on how dark your shaded blue psu fan boy glasses are.  That tf dude was against #36 fwiw.   Also 83% of psu fans are calling that pin a fluke so I don’t know what straw you are grasping at. Maybe cite a freestyle result from 1864.

Rough definition of utterly dominant.   Is he in the mj or Usain Bolt range at this point?    

Utterly Dominant refers to a team or athlete completely overpowering their opponent(s) with no real competition. This means they control the game, dictate play, and win convincingly and by a large margin or with sustained superiority over a season or tournament. Example: Prime-era Michael Jordan’s Bulls or peak Usain Bolt in sprinting.

[1032004]

16 minutes ago, Caveira said:

I guess that dependent on how dark your shaded blue psu fan boy glasses are.  That tf dude was against #36 fwiw.   Also 83% of psu fans are calling that pin a fluke so I don’t know what straw you are grasping at. Maybe cite a freestyle result from 1864.

Rough definition of utterly dominant.   Is he in the mj or Usain Bolt range at this point?    

Utterly Dominant refers to a team or athlete completely overpowering their opponent(s) with no real competition. This means they control the game, dictate play, and win convincingly and by a large margin or with sustained superiority over a season or tournament. Example: Prime-era Michael Jordan’s Bulls or peak Usain Bolt in sprinting.

I didn’t make the utterly dominant comment, I believe the person that did was referring to Lilledahl in HS.

I was just pointing out that you were cherry picking results and left out his most “dominant” win over a ranked opponent.  Wrestlestat is ratings not rankings btw, Cruz is currently #23 on Flo and just beat #10.

I wouldn’t say the pin was a “fluke,” but I’d pick Lilledahl in 9 out of 10 matches against McCrone.

[BruceyB]

6 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

You left out the 22-6 tech fall over the guy who has a win over the guy that pinned him, and might be ranked in the top 10 next week

Easy now. Cruz has losses to #14 Renteria, NAIA wrestler Gonzales, #24 Farmer, #16 Terukina, UR Meza, UR Rinkin

He has looked good over the last month with wins over #17 Rivera, #21 McCrone, and #13 Flynn, but he's far from the level of wrestler that Spencer Lee was dominating his freshman year. Anyone who is arguing that Lilledahl's season is comparable to Spencer Lee's freshman year needs to look at the 2018 wrestlestat.

The only matches where Lee didn't have bonus were against Bresser (loss), Tomasello (one WBD, one loss), Sebastian Rivera (majored him in the rematch), and Piccininni (10-5).

And he pinned Picc and NaTo at nationals that year. 

Piccininni was the returning 4th place AA and NaTo was 1st, 3rd, 3rd, going into that season. Lee also teched returning finalist Lizak that season.

Lilledahl is very, very, good. He can win the whole thing this year, but his dominance will not come close to resembling Lee's.

 

 

 

 

[1032004]

4 minutes ago, BruceyB said:

Easy now. Cruz has losses to #14 Renteria, NAIA wrestler Gonzales, #24 Farmer, #16 Terukina, UR Meza, UR Rinkin

He has looked good over the last month with wins over #17 Rivera, #21 McCrone, and #13 Flynn, but he's far from the level of wrestler that Spencer Lee was dominating his freshman year. Anyone who is arguing that Lilledahl's season is comparable to Spencer Lee's freshman year needs to look at the 2018 wrestlestat.

The only matches where Lee didn't have bonus were against Bresser (loss), Tomasello (one WBD, one loss), Sebastian Rivera (majored him in the rematch), and Piccininni (10-5).

And he pinned Picc and NaTo at nationals that year. 

Piccininni was the returning 4th place AA and NaTo was 1st, 3rd, 3rd, going into that season. Lee also teched returning finalist Lizak that season.

Lilledahl is very, very, good. He can win the whole thing this year, but his dominance will not come close to resembling Lee's.

 

 

 

 

I agree.  Lilledahl’s “dominance” is not comparable to Spencer.  I was just calling out @Caveira’s cherry-picking. But overall I don’t see an issue with comparing Spencer and Lilledahl  

Edited Monday at 01:47 AM by 1032004

[Caveira]

32 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

I agree.  Lilledahl’s “dominance” is not comparable to Spencer.  I was just calling out @Caveira’s cherry-picking. But overall I don’t see an issue with comparing Spencer and Lilledahl  

I didn’t cherry pick anything.  Someone on the psu faithful team called him utterly dominant on his feet.  I was showing stats as to how that is wrong.  If you are substantiating that a tf of someone who is 9-7 this year.   He was Ranked to not even qualify for NCAAs at the time (#36)….  3-6 last year and 0-2 his rs year you can whatever about that.   He (lilledhall) isn’t utterly dominant. 

Let him win something in college before comparing him to Spencer Lee.  

also. Is 125 the weakest it has been on a long time?   Maybe ever?

ramos didn’t aa last year. 
figs won it but is injured? 

v Robinson wasn’t at NCAAs last year 

poulin r12

spratley r12 

The weight lost Ayala, noto,stanich, Barnett, Braden Davis….    

Basically all of the weight cleared out.   

 

Edited Monday at 02:19 AM by Caveira

[1032004]

Sorry, it’s kinda funny to me that in one breath you’re talking about Spencer Lee as if he’s a god.  And in the next you’re talking about how the guy that beat him being the current favorite is a factor in 125 being “the weakest it’s ever been”

[BruceyB]

25 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Sorry, it’s kinda funny to me that in one breath you’re talking about Spencer Lee as if he’s a god.  And in the next you’re talking about how the guy that beat him being the current favorite is a factor in 125 being “the weakest it’s ever been”

C'mon now.. there is a reason that match is probably the second biggest upset in college wrestling history. I just looked through every 125 bracket from 2009 until now and would say this is the weakest field in that timeframe. And 2023 was probably the second weakest outside of Spencer. 

I'm assuming you're being antagonistic for the sake of contrarianism. But it can only go on so long..

[Truzzcat]

11 hours ago, Caveira said:

I guess that dependent on how dark your shaded blue psu fan boy glasses are.  That tf dude was against #36 fwiw.   Also 83% of psu fans are calling that pin a fluke so I don’t know what straw you are grasping at. Maybe cite a freestyle result from 1864.

Rough definition of utterly dominant.   Is he in the mj or Usain Bolt range at this point?    

Utterly Dominant refers to a team or athlete completely overpowering their opponent(s) with no real competition. This means they control the game, dictate play, and win convincingly and by a large margin or with sustained superiority over a season or tournament. Example: Prime-era Michael Jordan’s Bulls or peak Usain Bolt in sprinting.

he beat lev pavlov last year and the year prior (did not give up a takedown) to win a u20 title. Pavlov won russian nats this last year and the Yarigan in a bracket with RBY in it. (RBY failed to place at the same tournament). He took down Spratley 6 times to 2 in there trials finals best of 3 as a rising senior. He has given up 3 takedowns on the season in 17 matches Carson,Walker,Peterson. Utterly dominant was probably a stretch and for the love of god do not call me a PSU faithful.

[1032004]

12 hours ago, BruceyB said:

C'mon now.. there is a reason that match is probably the second biggest upset in college wrestling history. I just looked through every 125 bracket from 2009 until now and would say this is the weakest field in that timeframe. And 2023 was probably the second weakest outside of Spencer. 

I'm assuming you're being antagonistic for the sake of contrarianism. But it can only go on so long..

If you think this year is the weakest how can you say 2023 was worse than last year?  I’ll acknowledge that this year may be slightly worse than last year but I was actually a staunch opponent of the people saying last year was weak.

13 hours ago, Caveira said:

I didn’t cherry pick anything.  Someone on the psu faithful team called him utterly dominant on his feet.  I was showing stats as to how that is wrong.  If you are substantiating that a tf of someone who is 9-7 this year.   He was Ranked to not even qualify for NCAAs at the time (#36)….  3-6 last year and 0-2 his rs year you can whatever about that.   He (lilledhall) isn’t utterly dominant. 

Let him win something in college before comparing him to Spencer Lee.  

also. Is 125 the weakest it has been on a long time?   Maybe ever?

ramos didn’t aa last year. 
figs won it but is injured? 

v Robinson wasn’t at NCAAs last year 

poulin r12

spratley r12 

The weight lost Ayala, noto,stanich, Barnett, Braden Davis….    

Basically all of the weight cleared out.   

 

If you compare the guys that are gone vs new, Ayala was probably the main loss.  IMO:

Lilledahl = Stanich

Robinson = Noto

Rivera doesn’t look to be a big dropoff vs Barnett

Ventresca back to his normal self = Davis

[AgaveMaria]

23 hours ago, Pinnacle said:

That Lilledahl loss by cradle probably does him more good than harm. 

Like the current coach at Oklahoma State?

[roguetrader]

18 minutes ago, AgaveMaria said:

Like the current coach at Oklahoma State?

Maybe ... better in the dual than in either march tournament - which may be stating the obvious.

[Pinnacle]

26 minutes ago, AgaveMaria said:

Like the current coach at Oklahoma State?

Sure. I always learned more in defeat than in winning. Gave me things to work on. 

[AgaveMaria]

Taylor getting pinned by Bubba - sure was the wrong time for it but as the guy says, stuff happens.