I tried to tell you....but credit to Trump

[uncle bernard]

Anybody with a brain knew this would happen.

 

 

Edited January 15 by uncle bernard

[uncle bernard]

Credit to Trump for doing the rational thing and finally putting pressure on Israel to stop the massacre. Biden could have done this a year ago and chose not to. He should be prosecuted by the ICC.

Once the international community gains access to Gaza, we will discover the death count is much higher than the current numbers indicate. Some experts believe the true death toll is over 100k. We will know eventually.

And for those on here, who say the IDF would never target civilians and they are the most moral army in the world ( @Bigbrog @mspart for example), their soldiers disagree with you. This is reported in one of Israeli's own major newspapers and is extremely credible.

 

Shame on you who denied what was obvious. You are no better than the German citizens and allies who pretended not to see what Hitler was doing. 

 

 

[Husker_Du]

lmfao. you're such a Palestinian stan.

as if you should NOT eliminate a terrorist org. 

 

[PortaJohn]

[uncle bernard]

  On 1/15/2025 at 5:13 PM, Husker_Du said:

lmfao. you're such a Palestinian stan.

as if you should NOT eliminate a terrorist org. 

 

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Eliminating a terrorist org is not the question. It's the method of doing so. And as Blinken has just admitted, doing so by destroying the country and killing thousands of civilians has not made a significant dent in Hamas' capability. Why? Because all you're doing is strengthening their reason for being.

You weaken and eventually eliminate Hamas through politics, not war, at least not the type of warfare Israel has been carrying out.

So congrats for all the "progress" made towards defeating Hamas. You've killed thousands of children and they have about the same number of fighters as before.

[red viking]

Diaper Donald will offer blind support to Israel. They have a blank check to commit whatever atrocities they want. 

[Caveira]

  On 1/15/2025 at 5:49 PM, red viking said:

Diaper Donald will offer blind support to Israel. They have a blank check to commit whatever atrocities they want. 

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Your boy Biden literally already did that.   Didn’t hear you question him all that much.  

[mspart]

It would be interesting if UB could let everyone know how Hamas could be removed politically in the current situation.

mspart

[Bigbrog]

@mspart I literally was getting to post the exact same thing.

[uncle bernard]

  On 1/15/2025 at 6:12 PM, mspart said:

It would be interesting if UB could let everyone know how Hamas could be removed politically in the current situation.

mspart

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By providing Palestinians (not Hamas) a *legitimate* political path to statehood. Right now, Palestinians have no reason to believe they will ever achieve a free state politically, so Hamas is their only option.

This doesn't mean you just hand the keys over to Hamas, but there needs to be a path forward to end the occupation peacefully (and obviously that process will be heavily regulated by us and the rest of the West to protect all parties involved).

[uncle bernard]

  On 1/15/2025 at 5:49 PM, red viking said:

Diaper Donald will offer blind support to Israel. They have a blank check to commit whatever atrocities they want. 

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He's literally not doing that. He actually put real pressure on them to accept a deal, which is why this is happening.

Here's a Netanyahu surrogate complaining that the Trump admin won't let them continue to commit war crimes and prevent aid.

 

I'm still skeptical long-term, but Trump has already done far more to end this atrocity than Biden did in 2 years. Put Biden in the Hague.

[Bigbrog]

  On 1/15/2025 at 6:20 PM, uncle bernard said:

By providing Palestinians (not Hamas) a *legitimate* political path to statehood. Right now, Palestinians have no reason to believe they will ever achieve a free state politically, so Hamas is their only option.

This doesn't mean you just hand the keys over to Hamas, but there needs to be a path forward to end the occupation peacefully (and obviously that process will be heavily regulated by us and the rest of the West to protect all parties involved).

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You can't honestly think that wasn't attempted over and over.  Not to mention you conveniently left out that that Hamas was the governing body of the Palestinians and there never was going to be a "legitimate political path to statehood"...because of Humas!!  SMH

[red viking]

Funny how the wingers give credit to somebody that isn't even President yet. Meanwhile, Biden still gets the blame for anything that goes wrong. Ahhh, the hypocrisy of the right once again......

[mspart]

  On 1/15/2025 at 6:20 PM, uncle bernard said:

By providing Palestinians (not Hamas) a *legitimate* political path to statehood. Right now, Palestinians have no reason to believe they will ever achieve a free state politically, so Hamas is their only option.

This doesn't mean you just hand the keys over to Hamas, but there needs to be a path forward to end the occupation peacefully (and obviously that process will be heavily regulated by us and the rest of the West to protect all parties involved).

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So why is only Gaza controlled by Hamas but the west bank is not? 

To your second point, there was no occupation before Hamas mercilessly attacked Israeli civilians.   Maybe if Gazans quit attacking Israel, things will go better for them. 

To the point, do you have any reliable news articles(rather than X videos) hat supports your claim that Hamas has recruited more?   this article does not say that.  https://acleddata.com/2024/10/06/after-a-year-of-war-hamas-is-militarily-weakened-but-far-from-eliminated/

It says Israel may not have killed as many Hamas fighters as they say.   Can you refute this?

mspart

[uncle bernard]

  On 1/15/2025 at 6:38 PM, mspart said:

So why is only Gaza controlled by Hamas but the west bank is not? 

To your second point, there was no occupation before Hamas mercilessly attacked Israeli civilians.   Maybe if Gazans quit attacking Israel, things will go better for them. 

To the point, do you have any reliable news articles(rather than X videos) hat supports your claim that Hamas has recruited more?   this article does not say that.  https://acleddata.com/2024/10/06/after-a-year-of-war-hamas-is-militarily-weakened-but-far-from-eliminated/

It says Israel may not have killed as many Hamas fighters as they say.   Can you refute this?

mspart

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Because Hamas is an authoritarian party who seized power after winning a plurality in an election 20 years ago and haven't had one since.

[red viking]

  On 1/15/2025 at 6:38 PM, mspart said:

So why is only Gaza controlled by Hamas but the west bank is not? 

To your second point, there was no occupation before Hamas mercilessly attacked Israeli civilians.   Maybe if Gazans quit attacking Israel, things will go better for them. 

To the point, do you have any reliable news articles(rather than X videos) hat supports your claim that Hamas has recruited more?   this article does not say that.  https://acleddata.com/2024/10/06/after-a-year-of-war-hamas-is-militarily-weakened-but-far-from-eliminated/

It says Israel may not have killed as many Hamas fighters as they say.   Can you refute this?

mspart

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ANY TIME you commit the genocide and brutality that Israel is committing (and has committed for decades while it continues to forcibly take more land from the Palestinians), it is only going to fuel the anger and hatred that so many Muslims feel. What has occurred in that area, which we've blindly supported, is one of the greatest atrocities in the modern era. 

[red viking]

I can guarantee that if I lived in Palestine and had relatives and family that were murdered and raped by the Israelis (which most Palestinians have), I would be 1st in line to be looking for retribution. Has nothing to do with religion. 

[mspart]

  On 1/15/2025 at 6:46 PM, red viking said:

ANY TIME you commit the genocide and brutality that Israel is committing (and has committed for decades while it continues to forcibly take more land from the Palestinians), it is only going to fuel the anger and hatred that so many Muslims feel. What has occurred in that area, which we've blindly supported, is one of the greatest atrocities in the modern era. 

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There is no genocide happening so please stop with that.  Try using language you can reasonably support.

Greatest atrocity?   The Hamas October surprise or the the response to it?

mspart

[red viking]

  On 1/15/2025 at 7:32 PM, mspart said:

There is no genocide happening so please stop with that.  Try using language you can reasonably support.

Greatest atrocity?   The Hamas October surprise or the the response to it?

mspart

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The response. Highly disproportionate, just like every single Israeli response since 1948. The west is paranoid about anything resembling anti-Semitism, so Israel gets a blank check to do whatever they want over there. No way they would have even come close to committing all of these atrocities if it wasn't for the knee-jerk reaction to HItler. 

[Caveira]

  On 1/15/2025 at 7:58 PM, red viking said:

The response. Highly disproportionate, just like every single Israeli response since 1948. The west is paranoid about anything resembling anti-Semitism, so Israel gets a blank check to do whatever they want over there. No way they would have even come close to committing all of these atrocities if it wasn't for the knee-jerk reaction to HItler. 

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Says the guy who already said he would join Hamas.  

[red viking]

  On 1/15/2025 at 8:07 PM, Caveira said:

Says the guy who already said he would join Hamas.  

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If I had several family and friends murdered by the Israelis, hell yah. Real men don't roll over to bullies. 

[Husker_Du]

  On 1/15/2025 at 7:58 PM, red viking said:

 if it wasn't for the knee-jerk reaction to HItler. 

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there it is. the dumbest comment in the history of the internet. 

[wrestlingguy]

  On 1/15/2025 at 8:14 PM, red viking said:

If I had several family and friends murdered by the Israelis, hell yah. Real men don't roll over to bullies. 

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In this situation the bully would be Hamas. The bully got punched back and now they are crying about it like they didn't bring it on themselves.

[Husker_Du]

  On 1/15/2025 at 6:44 PM, uncle bernard said:

Because Hamas is an authoritarian party who seized power after winning a plurality in an election 20 years ago and haven't had one since.

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yes, so by all means, let them be. lmfao.

[Bigbrog]

  On 1/15/2025 at 8:14 PM, red viking said:

If I had several family and friends murdered by the Israelis, hell yah. Real men don't roll over to bullies. 

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Second time saying you would join a terrorist organization...please leave these boards