How good are PSU Backup/Redshirts?

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

4 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Yes they are 

Not really...other elite teams have primo blue chip backups too.

[mad_rascal]

Will be interesting to see if anyone transfers. So far I think there all pretty happy. But with the next few recruiting classes, someone prob want to.

[BruceyB]

33 minutes ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Not really...other elite teams have primo blue chip backups too.

Such as? 

[Pinnacle]

What the hell is Sonnen drinking in that can? Liquid something something. Lol.

[BruceyB]

27 minutes ago, mad_rascal said:

Will be interesting to see if anyone transfers. So far I think there all pretty happy. But with the next few recruiting classes, someone prob want to.

I do think we, as fans, often forget about how big of a transition transferring schools really is. You form relationships with the coaches, friends, teammates, and this is the first time for many that they've left their hometown and childhood friends. To start all over again by transferring is easier said than done.

[Spladle88]

Well there is the "opt in" with 30 wrestler roster limit supposedly coming soon.......will force a lot of wrestlers (and coaches) to make choices.......

[BruceyB]

2 minutes ago, Spladle88 said:

Well there is the "opt in" with 30 wrestler roster limit supposedly coming soon.......will force a lot of wrestlers (and coaches) to make choices.......

I'm curious how many teams have 30 wrestlers on their roster excluding walk-ons. I think the roster cap would actually be better for the sport because instead of a quality HS wrestler walking on at PSU, OKST, Iowa, tOSU, etc., they will be more likely to wrestle somewhere else where they might actually make the starting line-up and have a chance to compete.

[fishbane]

Just now, BruceyB said:

I'm curious how many teams have 30 wrestlers on their roster excluding walk-ons. I think the roster cap would actually be better for the sport because instead of a quality HS wrestler walking on at PSU, OKST, Iowa, tOSU, etc., they will be more likely to wrestle somewhere else where they might actually make the starting line-up and have a chance to compete.

Why would you exclude walk-ons?  With a scholarship limit of 9.9 it would seam like no teams would satisfy the criteria of 30 scholarship athletes.

[BruceyB]

18 minutes ago, fishbane said:

Why would you exclude walk-ons?  With a scholarship limit of 9.9 it would seam like no teams would satisfy the criteria of 30 scholarship athletes.

Scholarships are only limited by how much NIL money you have to offer. None of those blue chippers at PSU are taking out students loans, even if they aren't part of the 9.9. 

Edit: I was just pointing out that none of the major teams are going to be losing guys of relevance due to the roster cap. Maybe a couple of walk-ons might have to go elsewhere, but the starters and quality backups will still get paid and remain on the team.

Edited Tuesday at 07:39 PM by BruceyB

[Wrestleknownothing]

18 minutes ago, BruceyB said:

I'm curious how many teams have 30 wrestlers on their roster excluding walk-ons. I think the roster cap would actually be better for the sport because instead of a quality HS wrestler walking on at PSU, OKST, Iowa, tOSU, etc., they will be more likely to wrestle somewhere else where they might actually make the starting line-up and have a chance to compete.

I always struggle with this argument. The underlying assumption is those quality HS wrestlers do not already have the option to wrestle somewhere else where they might actually make the starting line-up and have a chance to compete. They do already have this option.

[BruceyB]

1 minute ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

I always struggle with this argument. The underlying assumption is those quality HS wrestlers do not already have the option to wrestle somewhere else where they might actually make the starting line-up and have a chance to compete. They do already have this option.

Currently, yes. But with a hard roster cap of 30, the sport won't be nearly as "walk-on" friendly. Wrestling has always been a non-cut sport because there is no harm in having more guys in the room. But just like other sports where you can only have so many "bench" players, the top programs will have to reserve the 30 spots for just the 30 best wrestlers they can have in the room. I'm curious if some programs will have wrestle-offs in the beginning of the year between non-scholarship athletes to see who makes the team.

[fishbane]

1 minute ago, BruceyB said:

Currently, yes. But with a hard roster cap of 30, the sport won't be nearly as "walk-on" friendly. Wrestling has always been a non-cut sport because there is no harm in having more guys in the room. But just like other sports where you can only have so many "bench" players, the top programs will have to reserve the 30 spots for just the 30 best wrestlers they can have in the room. I'm curious if some programs will have wrestle-offs in the beginning of the year between non-scholarship athletes to see who makes the team.

I don't think the roster cap of 30 does anything for competitive balance in wrestling.  Since NIL the scholarship limit doesn't do squat, but I have a hard time believing the big programs are paying NIL exceeding the cost of tuition more than 3 deep at each weight.  I guess it is theoretically possible for a team to pay 50 guys just to hoard them from competitors, but that isn't really going to happen.  The suggestion earlier in the thread that teams could enter multiple wrestlers per weight in the post season would harm competitive balance more than not having a roster limit.  You'd see more top teams with 2nd teams that could win duals against the mid tier programs.

[BruceyB]

1 hour ago, fishbane said:

I don't think the roster cap of 30 does anything for competitive balance in wrestling.  Since NIL the scholarship limit doesn't do squat, but I have a hard time believing the big programs are paying NIL exceeding the cost of tuition more than 3 deep at each weight.  I guess it is theoretically possible for a team to pay 50 guys just to hoard them from competitors, but that isn't really going to happen.  The suggestion earlier in the thread that teams could enter multiple wrestlers per weight in the post season would harm competitive balance more than not having a roster limit.  You'd see more top teams with 2nd teams that could win duals against the mid tier programs.

You're misunderstanding me. My point was that the roster cap won't do much if anything for the competitive balance in wrestling, other than maybe Long Island U gets a commit that would have otherwise been a 4th string walk-on at PSU. That walk-on might be a starter at LIU, which is good for their program, but it doesn't change the competitive balance.

Also, I said the blue-chippers at PSU aren't taking out student loans. I obviously don't think everyone on their roster is getting tuition covered. Anyone who isn't in the top 30 at a given school isn't going to hurt the program by not being there, but there may be some guys outside of the top 30 at the power schools that could be a benefit to a small program.

[fishbane]

This topic was discussed on FRL today in the questions segment.  It sounded like the consensus was they would not quite be a top 10 team, but would qualify 10 guys.  The lineup they considered featured both Nagao and Facundo.  Sounds like it was roughly as I've laid out below, though they didn't discuss every weight.  They seemed to think Nagao, Facundo, and Ryder could place.  The Mirasolas they thought maybe not quite be there and Sealey they thought possibly could AA, but that was solely based on Sanderson's paise.  

The average 10th place team over the past 25 years had 51.25 team points and 3.11 AAs.  The minimum number of team points was 40.5 in 2012.  The fewest AAs by a 10 place team was 2 which has happened 3x over that timespan.  Every time the 10th place team only had 2 AAs one was a champion.

125 Kurt McHenry  

133 Aaron Nagao

141 Cael Nasedo 

149 David Evans 

157 Joe Sealey

165 Alex Facundo

174 Matt Lee 

184 Zack Ryder

197 Connor Mirasola

285 Cole Mirasola 

https://www.youtube.com/live/hGGuXTmNNL8?si=jKHH0Z4_e29QZQjD&t=4122

 

[666]

Obviously PSU has the best bench in the country, by a country mile. I think last year they had a legit claim for PSU's scrubs being a top 10 team, but this year....I think maybe top 20? 

[666]

On 1/7/2025 at 9:23 PM, BruceyB said:

You're misunderstanding me. My point was that the roster cap won't do much if anything for the competitive balance in wrestling, other than maybe Long Island U gets a commit that would have otherwise been a 4th string walk-on at PSU. That walk-on might be a starter at LIU, which is good for their program, but it doesn't change the competitive balance.

Also, I said the blue-chippers at PSU aren't taking out student loans. I obviously don't think everyone on their roster is getting tuition covered. Anyone who isn't in the top 30 at a given school isn't going to hurt the program by not being there, but there may be some guys outside of the top 30 at the power schools that could be a benefit to a small program.

What happened to the old 9.0 scholly limit? In the NIL era is that limitation kaput? 

[1032004]

2 hours ago, fishbane said:

This topic was discussed on FRL today in the questions segment.  It sounded like the consensus was they would not quite be a top 10 team, but would qualify 10 guys.  The lineup they considered featured both Nagao and Facundo.  Sounds like it was roughly as I've laid out below, though they didn't discuss every weight.  They seemed to think Nagao, Facundo, and Ryder could place.  The Mirasolas they thought maybe not quite be there and Sealey they thought possibly could AA, but that was solely based on Sanderson's paise.  

The average 10th place team over the past 25 years had 51.25 team points and 3.11 AAs.  The minimum number of team points was 40.5 in 2012.  The fewest AAs by a 10 place team was 2 which has happened 3x over that timespan.  Every time the 10th place team only had 2 AAs one was a champion.

 

125 Kurt McHenry  

133 Aaron Nagao

141 Cael Nasedo 

149 David Evans 

157 Joe Sealey

165 Alex Facundo

174 Matt Lee 

184 Zack Ryder

197 Connor Mirasola

285 Cole Mirasola 

https://www.youtube.com/live/hGGuXTmNNL8?si=jKHH0Z4_e29QZQjD&t=4122

 

Yeah I think they’d have a pretty good shot at 3 AA’s.

Ohio State could have an outside shot at 3 AA’s with Welsh and maybe 2 out of Davino, Cannon, Kilkeary, Hepner, Geog/Shumate

Iowa could do decent in a tournament format if Ferrari + Brands or Kennedy place high, but that’s probably about it except for maybe a point or 2 from Rathjen

OK State: potential shot at 2 AA’s out of Merrill, Doucet, Hughes, Thompson

 

 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

On 1/7/2025 at 2:47 PM, BruceyB said:

Currently, yes. But with a hard roster cap of 30, the sport won't be nearly as "walk-on" friendly. Wrestling has always been a non-cut sport because there is no harm in having more guys in the room. But just like other sports where you can only have so many "bench" players, the top programs will have to reserve the 30 spots for just the 30 best wrestlers they can have in the room. I'm curious if some programs will have wrestle-offs in the beginning of the year between non-scholarship athletes to see who makes the team.

I walked on to a very good division 2 team that wrestled a schedule with more than 50% D1 teams (before the scheduling rules changed.)  I was terrible as a freshman.  Started as a sophomore and captained the squad as a senior.  This was 30 years ago and it was division 2.  There would be no way I would have made the cut as a freshman if there had been a hard roster cap.

How many guys with similar stories to mine survive D1?  Prob no a lot, but I bet there are some.

Edited Friday at 01:27 PM by Interviewed_at_Weehawken

[666]

28 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

I walked on to a very good division 2 team that wrestled a schedule with more than 50% D1 teams (before the scheduling rules changed.)  I was terrible as a freshman.  Started as a sophomore and captained the squad as a senior.  This was 30 years ago and it was division 2.  There would be no way I would have made the cut as a freshman if there had been a hard roster cap.

How many guys with similar stories to mine survive D1?  Prob no a lot, but I bet there are some.

I walked on to a good D1 team and would've been a starter as a FR if a JUCO national champ hadn't transferred in at the last minute. Total pisser, but you earn what you get in this sport.  He was better than me, I was too skinny to go fullblown fatboy (HWT), and didn't have enough bodyfat to pull down to the next weight. Too bad, I threw the 177 pound starter around in practice like a gorilla with a suitcase. He's wasn't that great, lol. 

[666]

del

Edited Friday at 02:15 PM by 666

[roguetrader]

On 1/7/2025 at 11:53 AM, Pinnacle said:

PSU needs to give the back ups some work Friday night because otherwise they might bonus every single Michigan State wrestler. Good thing there is some compelling football on ESPN that night. 

You called it amigo.

[Pinnacle]

Btw, that football game on espn is pretty compelling right now.

[Bardamu911]

On 1/6/2025 at 12:02 PM, 1032004 said:

I’d be surprised if Nagao or Facundo wrestle again this season, especially Nagao.  I think they are both angling for a medical year.

what's going on with them?