Potential Record Setting Year for PSU/Starocci/Sanderson

[fishbane]

There are several significant records within reach for the Nittany Lions this year.  How many do they accomplish by the end of the season?

1) Most NCAA Championships by a single wrestler - current record 4 (Pat Smith, Cael Sanderson, Kyle Dake, Logan Stieber, Yianni Diakomihalis, Aaron Brooks, and Carter Starocci)

Carter Starocci enters the season with 4 NCAA titles.  Should he win again he will be the only person with 5.

2) Most individual NCAA champions by a single coach - current record 45 (Dan Gable)

With 4 individual champions last season Sanderson moved past Ed Gallagher and Harold Nichols into second on the all-time list with 40 NCAA champs.  If PSU gets 5 - a total they have done twice before - he will match Gable in only his 18th NCAA tournament as a head coach.  It's on the table with PSU returning 3 NCAA champs and 2 runner-ups.

3) Most individual NCAA champions by a team in a single season - current record 5 (Iowa 1986, 1997; OSU 2005; PSU 2017, 2022).

PSU returns 3 NCAA Champions (Haines, Starocci, and Kerkvliet), 2 runner-ups (Bartlett and Mesenbrink), 2 3rd place finishers (Van Ness and Kasak), and another wrestler who was the 1 seed at NCAA's last year (Davis).  Five champs is a possibility.  PSU will be the only team to do it for a 3rd time if it happens.

4) Most AAs by a team in a single season - current record 10 (Minnesota 2001)

PSU could field returning AAs at 133, 141, 149, 157, 165, 174, 184, and 285.  The remaining two weights, 125 and 197 are likely to feature freshman that have medaled at junior worlds.  It could happen.

5) Most team points at the NCAA tournament - current record 172.5 (PSU 2024)

This is largely the same team that set the record.  They return 133 of the record setting point total and after adding Shayne Van Ness's 15.5 team points from 2023 this team returns 148.5.  A better result at 125 and 133 along with more bonus points from a healthy Carter Starocci and it could happen.

6) Longest dual winning streak in Penn State history - current record 60 match (PSU 2015-2019)

This PSU team enters the year on a 56 match winning streak going back to 2020.  PSU opens with duals against Drexel, Lehigh, Wyoming, Binghamton, and Arkansas - Little Rock.  They will be favored heavily in all 5.

7) Longest dual winning streak by a single coach - current record 69 matches (OSU/Ed Gallagher 1921-1932, OSU/John Smith 1996-1999, Iowa/Brands 2008-2011)

PSU has 15 duals on the schedule and they will be favored in all of them.  If they win the first 13 Sanderson/PSU will match the record.  The Iowa duals is in the first 13 so Iowa has a chance to block them from doing this.  

If PSU keeps the winning streak going they will end the season with 71 straight wins and only 5 behind the longest winning streak by any school.  It took OSU 14 years and two coaches to set that record when they won 76 sgtright matches between 1937 and 1951.  They could also break the record for the longest unbeaten dual streak which is 84 (OSU/Roderick 1959-1966 and Iowa/Brands 2008-2012).  That would require them to run the table this year and win at least the first 14 duals next year.

Are there any other milestones Sanderson and Penn State could reach in the near term?

[Caveira]

As far as bonus points.   Cstar isn’t a bonus machine at NCAAs.   Never has been.  I’m not gonna count it but I think he’s in the very bottom tier of 4 timers relative to bonus dominance at NCAAs.  I think he’s “only” bonused 4 of 20 at NCAAs so far and that’s last or second from last bonus % of all of the 4 timers.   
 

edited to 4 from 5.  He bonuses 1,1,2,0 opponents respectively at NCAAs.  

Edited October 15 by Caveira

[Caveira]

1 hour ago, Caveira said:

As far as bonus points.   Cstar isn’t a bonus machine at NCAAs.   Never has been.  I’m not gonna count it but I think he’s in the very bottom tier of 4 timers relative to bonus dominance at NCAAs.  I think he’s “only” bonused 4 of 20 at NCAAs so far and that’s last or second from last bonus % of all of the 4 timers.   
 

edited to 4 from 5.  He bonuses 1,1,2,0 opponents respectively at NCAAs.  

To put in perspective.  This year.  Least dominant ncaa champ by bonus wins.  
 

sorted in order by weight…. The zero is Cstar   

2,4,2,2,4,2,0,4,4,3

 

 

[nhs67]

29 minutes ago, Caveira said:

To put in perspective.  This year.  Least dominant ncaa champ by bonus wins.  
 

sorted in order by weight…. The zero is Cstar   

2,4,2,2,4,2,0,4,4,3

 

 

He was injured.  He had the most points the prior two years did he not?

[Hammerlock3]

51 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

He was injured.  He had the most points the prior two years did he not?

I have it on good authority from Pat Downey that his injury was a complete non factor and didn't affect him at all

[Caveira]

3 hours ago, nhs67 said:

He was injured.  He had the most points the prior two years did he not?

No.    He had 4 bonus wins in total of all 4 years.  

[Le duke]

No.    He had 4 bonus wins in total of all 4 years.  

I didn’t bother checking 2022, but Starocci definitely had the most points in 2023.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[fishbane]

4 hours ago, Caveira said:

To put in perspective.  This year.  Least dominant ncaa champ by bonus wins.  
 

sorted in order by weight…. The zero is Cstar   

2,4,2,2,4,2,0,4,4,3

 

 

Before the injury last season he had scored bonus in every match except Rocco Welsh.  Majored Mekhi Lewis at the NWCA All Star Classic too.  I think there is some room for improvement for him.

[Wrestleknownothing]

5 hours ago, Caveira said:

As far as bonus points.   Cstar isn’t a bonus machine at NCAAs.   Never has been.  I’m not gonna count it but I think he’s in the very bottom tier of 4 timers relative to bonus dominance at NCAAs.  I think he’s “only” bonused 4 of 20 at NCAAs so far and that’s last or second from last bonus % of all of the 4 timers.   
 

edited to 4 from 5.  He bonuses 1,1,2,0 opponents respectively at NCAAs.  

But 3 of the 4 were pinfalls

[Wrestleknownothing]

4 hours ago, nhs67 said:

He was injured.  He had the most points the prior two years did he not?

Just the prior 

[Wrestleknownothing]

51 minutes ago, Caveira said:

No.    He had 4 bonus wins in total of all 4 years.  

Bonus wins is not the same as bonus points.

[Le duke]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Caveira]

Why is overall bonus % not relevant here.   It is still only 4 of 20 bonus wins.   Yes 3 were falls.   Do all of the 4 timers.   

[Caveira]

So I’m stuck in an airport so I counted.  
 

smith.   10 bonus wins.   5 tf/fall

Cael 17 bonus wins.  11 tf/f

dake 9 bonus wins.  4 tf/fall

steiber 14 bonus wins.  3 tf/f

cstar 4 bonus wins.  3 tf/f

yanni 3 bonus wins.  1 tf/fall

brooks 10 bonus 6 tf/f

 

Edited October 16 by Caveira

[nhs67]

1 hour ago, Caveira said:

Why is overall bonus % not relevant here.   It is still only 4 of 20 bonus wins.   Yes 3 were falls.   Do all of the 4 timers.   

Pinfalls count as more points, which is the measuring stick for breaking the Team Points record.

[Caveira]

Just now, nhs67 said:

Pinfalls count as more points, which is the measuring stick for breaking the Team Points record.

See above stats.  I stand by my comment.  Only 1 4X er was less dominant than Cstar.   Every other one was far more dominant.      
 

This is relevant if he wins 5 as the blue glasses people will be making arguments for the goat which he is not.     He’s also been gifted 40% of his NCAAs with 3 point take downs and 4 point near falls which is statistically supposed to make bonus more likely.   

[nhs67]

7 minutes ago, Caveira said:

See above stats.  I stand by my comment.  Only 1 4X er was less dominant than Cstar.   Every other one was far more dominant.      
 

This is relevant if he wins 5 as the blue glasses people will be making arguments for the goat which he is not.     He’s also been gifted 40% of his NCAAs with 3 point take downs and 4 point near falls which is statistically supposed to make bonus more likely.   

The thread title and subsequent question/poll specifically states Team Points.  You can try to add whatever asterisks to you you want to it, I will stick to the thread's discussion topic.

I would thoroughly enjoy to have a conversation with you on dominance, of which I will refer you to my prior moniker for Starocci in Sta(l)rocci.  I entirely agree with you that he is a boring defensive wrestler.  Let us discuss it in another thread that is on topic, though.

[Caveira]

2 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

The thread title and subsequent question/poll specifically states Team Points.  You can try to add whatever asterisks to you you want to it, I will stick to the thread's discussion topic.

I would thoroughly enjoy to have a conversation with you on dominance, of which I will refer you to my prior moniker for Starocci in Sta(l)rocci.  I entirely agree with you that he is a boring defensive wrestler.  Let us discuss it in another thread that is on topic, though.

Fair.  But it cites his bonus abilities in the op.   Tis why I mentioned it.      I’ll stop.  
 

[nhs67]

1 hour ago, Caveira said:

Fair.  But it cites his bonus abilities in the op.   Tis why I mentioned it.      I’ll stop.  
 

If you want to cite total bonus matches, you should take in to consideration that Pinfalls garner more points, so a points per gained per match should be apt.

Now if you do a total points scored at Nationals, you're going to see that it will be him first, because he is going to have five NCAA titles worth of points.

All of it is analysis on what you want to put weight on, so opinion definitely does matter for 'what matters more' when looking at them.

For me, when he went Boss Level on last year's field, while wrestling on one leg, that is quite possibly one of the best performances we have ever seen.

Also, add in that the year prior when he wasn't injured, he did score the most points out of everyone included.  To me, it makes logical sense to give him the benefit of the doubt for last year, and that doesn't even take in to consideration the gauntlet of prior national champions that he had to trudge through.

[Caveira]

5 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

If you want to cite total bonus matches, you should take in to consideration that Pinfalls garner more points, so a points per gained per match should be apt.

Now if you do a total points scored at Nationals, you're going to see that it will be him first, because he is going to have five NCAA titles worth of points.

All of it is analysis on what you want to put weight on, so opinion definitely does matter for 'what matters more' when looking at them.

For me, when he went Boss Level on last year's field, while wrestling on one leg, that is quite possibly one of the best performances we have ever seen.

Also, add in that the year prior when he wasn't injured, he did score the most points out of everyone included.  To me, it makes logical sense to give him the benefit of the doubt for last year, and that doesn't even take in to consideration the gauntlet of prior national champions that he had to trudge through.

Agree to disagree on two points.   No one else was allowed to compete for 5 championships so total points is sort of silly.  Maybe avg points over the run.  
 

with that said.  Boss level last year?   Everyone has injuries so you can’t use that excuse.  With that said he couldn’t major the 26 seed.   The 9 seed.   An injured Lewis.  An injured Griffith.   Or a tru frosh in the finals.   

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

20 minutes ago, Caveira said:

Agree to disagree on two points.   No one else was allowed to compete for 5 championships so total points is sort of silly.  Maybe avg points over the run.  
 

with that said.  Boss level last year?   Everyone has injuries so you can’t use that excuse.  With that said he couldn’t major the 26 seed.   The 9 seed.   An injured Lewis.  An injured Griffith.   Or a tru frosh in the finals.   

How injured was Carter?

[Caveira]

Just now, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

How injured was Carter?

To Much fun to know ?    When it’s Iowa.  It’s bad man brands and over training.  When it’s Cstar it’s different.   Cool cool.  

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

1 minute ago, Caveira said:

To Much fun to know ?    When it’s Iowa.  It’s bad man brands and over training.  When it’s Cstar it’s different.   Cool cool.  

ACL tear?  Two ACL tears? I'm wondering how "bad" it really was.  I have now doubt it was something.

He was healthy enough for OTT shortly after.

[nhs67]

28 minutes ago, Caveira said:

Agree to disagree on two points.   No one else was allowed to compete for 5 championships so total points is sort of silly.  Maybe avg points over the run.  
 

with that said.  Boss level last year?   Everyone has injuries so you can’t use that excuse.  With that said he couldn’t major the 26 seed.   The 9 seed.   An injured Lewis.  An injured Griffith.   Or a tru frosh in the finals.   

Everyone is dinged up, not everyone is injured.  He was injured and on one leg.  He went Boss Level for his fourth natty.

Another way to say what you said...
- Earned revenge on a guy that beat him at B1Gs (HAHA!)
- Beat probably the fastest/most athletic 174lber in the nation in Kemp
- Shut out 2x finalist and former national champion
- Shut out a 2nd former national champion
- Out-ground and shut out a true frosh that had the tournament of his life.

Have you performed as well as any of that?  I am sure you have won multiple national titles, B1G titles, etc.  I am sure you would have done better one one leg last year than he did.

9 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

ACL tear?  Two ACL tears? I'm wondering how "bad" it really was.  I have now doubt it was something.

He was healthy enough for OTT shortly after.

No he wasn't.  He was clearly out of shape and had botched a weight descent/cut to 163lbs less than two weeks prior (word is that he was within two pounds and was forced to stop by the medical staff - so in <two weeks went from 165 to 189lbs).  It is the OTT and being on the team was a dream of his since he was four.  You don't make any excuses to not go.  You go.

[Caveira]

1 minute ago, nhs67 said:

Everyone is dinged up, not everyone is injured.  He was injured and on one leg.  He went Boss Level for his fourth natty.

Another way to say what you said...
- Earned revenge on a guy that beat him at B1Gs (HAHA!)
- Beat probably the fastest/most athletic 174lber in the nation in Kemp
- Shut out 2x finalist and former national champion
- Shut out a 2nd former national champion
- Out-ground and shut out a true frosh that had the tournament of his life.

Have you performed as well as any of that?  I am sure you have won multiple national titles, B1G titles, etc.  I am sure you would have done better one one leg last year than he did.

No he wasn't.  He was clearly out of shape and had botched a weight descent/cut to 163lbs less than two weeks prior (word is that he was within two pounds and was forced to stop by the medical staff - so in <two weeks went from 165 to 189lbs).  It is the OTT and being on the team was a dream of his since he was four.  You don't make any excuses to not go.  You go.

I remember one of the psu faithful dudes didn’t compete at final x for third place for a spot on the team because it was not big deal and not a huge priority.  
 

A super injured sucked down…. Stopped physically by medical personnel…… person typically doesn’t make the decision to move up 34 lbs to compete…. At least one would think.   All the while.  Wasn’t he ending careers and pizzin on graves or some crap like that?   I forget the comment but he deserves all the shade he gets.