Who can be the next Spencer in terms of program impact?

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

Spencer turned around Iowa and started the PA pipeline (which has since dried up). If not for injuries he would have been a 4x NCAA champ.

Is Bassett to Iowa the next Spencer? Or Jax to Ok State?

Or Blaze to Ohio State?

[Pinnacle]

Jimmy to Iowa

[alex1fly]

Spencer joined Iowa in 2018. Here’s how Iowa placed the last 10 years. Did he turn around the Iowa program, or did he just add to an already successful team?
 

Team standings:

2014: 4th place

2015: 2nd place

2016: 3rd place

2017: 5th place

2018: 6th place

2019: 9th place

2021: 1st place (national champions)

2022: 3rd place

2023: 9th place

[jchapman]

Marinelli turned the Hawks around just as much as Lee.  He had more wins in fewer seasons than Lee.  And if not for injuries and receiving the worst ever #1 seeds in the history of the NCAA tournament, he would have been a multi-X National Champ.

Edited September 26 by jchapman

[Greenwave]

Blaze will impact any team he joins.

[scourge165]

2 minutes ago, jchapman said:

Marinelli turned the Hawks around just as much as Lee.  He had more wins in fewer seasons than Lee.  And if not for injuries and receiving the worst ever #1 seeds in the history of the NCAA tournament, he would have been a multi-X National Champ.

I don't quite have this recollection of Marinelli. What years do you think he should have been a NC? Or could have if not for seeding?

[scourge165]

1 minute ago, Greenwave said:

Blaze will impact any team he joins.

Well..yeah, there are a lot of guys who will. 

Jimmy only asks stupid questions, but Sinclair is going to have a massive impact, Lillendahl will, Blaze, Bassett, Forrest, Blaze.

The question is who'll turn a program around...and nobody "turned" Iowa around.

 

If I was taking this seriously, I'd say...whoever goes to Okie State and then IF they win 3 or 4 and a team Title. 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

7 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

I don't quite have this recollection of Marinelli. What years do you think he should have been a NC? Or could have if not for seeding?

He was a 4x Big 10 champ, right. That is pretty impressive.  Most of those guys prob win at least one title.  Kind of surprising he didn't get at least one, tbh.

I just looked it up, and honestly not sure if it is 100% accurate, but I believe there are 16 4x B10 champs and he is the only one not to win NCAA.

Edited September 26 by Interviewed_at_Weehawken

[Maxwell Smart]

10 year period with 9 tournaments. 2014-2017 average placement 3.5.  2018-2023 average placement 5.6. 2014-2023 average placement 4.6. Factoring in a first place finish in 2020 puts the at the 2018-2023 average at 5th place and the 10 year average at 4.3. Just the numbers.  Jax to Lehigh, Bo to PSU, Marcus to Ohio State. All 3 will have an impact.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

1 minute ago, Maxwell Smart said:

10 year period with 9 tournaments. 2014-2017 average placement 3.5.  2018-2023 average placement 5.6. 2014-2023 average placement 4.6. Factoring in a first place finish in 2020 puts the at the 2018-2023 average at 5th place and the 10 year average at 4.3. Just the numbers.  Jax to Lehigh, Bo to PSU, Marcus to Ohio State. All 3 will have an impact.

I don't think Jax will be at Lehigh; and if Bo goes to PSU, I don't think he will be turning the program around!

[scourge165]

16 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

He was a 4x Big 10 champ, right. That is pretty impressive.  Most of those guys prob win at least one title.  Kind of surprising he didn't get at least one, tbh.

I just looked it up, and honestly not sure if it is 100% accurate, but I believe there are 16 4x B10 champs and he is the only one not to win NCAA.

I didn't say he wasn't impressive, just that I don't know what year you point to and say, 'he was the #1 guy he just got a terrible draw.'

 

I'm not even arguing it, I just don't recall. 

[jchapman]

24 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

I don't quite have this recollection of Marinelli. What years do you think he should have been a NC? Or could have if not for seeding?

This was sarcastic.  Bull was the #1 seed at NCAAs three times (one was the cancelled 2020 tournament), and never made the Finals.  Iowa fans said he got screwed by the seeding (facing tough opponents in quarters, etc).  For example, he faced Mekhi Lewis in the quarters in 2019.  Lewis was the 2018 Junior World Champ and #8 seed at NCAAs.

Edited September 26 by jchapman

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

22 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

I didn't say he wasn't impressive, just that I don't know what year you point to and say, 'he was the #1 guy he just got a terrible draw.'

 

I'm not even arguing it, I just don't recall. 

Well, you did say "the years he could have been an NCAA champ."  I would assume one of the years he won B10, but prob his best shot was 2019.

He had a bad draw (or it looked that way at the time) in 2019:

1st round: the funky returning AA Joe Smith, who happened to not really be at his peak (but on paper, not a great first round for the #1)

2nd round: Bullard from NC State.  Ok, not exactly prime David Taylor level of greatness...

Quarters: prob the best version of Mekhi, fresh off his U20 world title.  Marinelli loses 3-1 in a match where he definitely had his chances.  

Semis: He would have had the Wick/Marstellar winner, who ended up being Wick.

Prime Mekhi beats Cenzo Joseph 7-1 in final.

I'm not saying Marinelli should have won that.  Mekhi is the reason he didn't, not the draw.  But that was not a great spot in the bracket.

Starocci had a tougher one (on paper) last spring, but also may have ended up wrestling a couple guys (Mekhi, Griffith)  who were past their prime and also played to Carter's strengths.  The difference is that Carter won.  He's just better all the way around.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

38 minutes ago, jchapman said:

This was sarcastic.  Bull was the #1 seed at NCAAs three times (one was the cancelled 2020 tournament), and never made the Finals.  Iowa fans said he got screwed by the seeding (facing tough opponents in quarters, etc).  For example, he faced Mekhi Lewis in the quarters in 2019.  Lewis was the 2018 Junior World Champ and #8 seed at NCAAs.

Pretty good chance that most guys who are 4x B10 seeds and 3x #1 seeds are favored to win the tourney.  He appears to be the only 4x B10 champ to not win NCAAs.  Is he the only 3x #1 to not win?  @Jason  Bryant ?

[scourge165]

43 minutes ago, jchapman said:

This was sarcastic.  Bull was the #1 seed at NCAAs three times (one was the cancelled 2020 tournament), and never made the Finals.  Iowa fans said he got screwed by the seeding (facing tough opponents in quarters, etc).  For example, he faced Mekhi Lewis in the quarters in 2019.  Lewis was the 2018 Junior World Champ and #8 seed at NCAAs.

Ok...I missed that. I was just going back and looking at Joseph vs Izzy in the finals, Lewis and him taking 7th.

But Iowa fans complaining? No shot!

[Mr. PeanutButter]

1 hour ago, alex1fly said:

Spencer joined Iowa in 2018. Here’s how Iowa placed the last 10 years. Did he turn around the Iowa program, or did he just add to an already successful team?
 

Team standings:

2014: 4th place

2015: 2nd place

2016: 3rd place

2017: 5th place

2018: 6th place

2019: 9th place

2021: 1st place (national champions)

2022: 3rd place

2023: 9th place

What are you smoking 

[alex1fly]

1 hour ago, scourge165 said:

Well..yeah, there are a lot of guys who will. 

Jimmy only asks stupid questions, but Sinclair is going to have a massive impact, Lillendahl will, Blaze, Bassett, Forrest, Blaze.

The question is who'll turn a program around...and nobody "turned" Iowa around.

 

If I was taking this seriously, I'd say...whoever goes to Okie State and then IF they win 3 or 4 and a team Title. 

His questions consistently have an English Class Homework vibe to me. “Now that you have watched Les Miserable, discuss what impacts may be found in related circumstances in pre-unification Hawkeye country. Draw upon your prior knowledge to find parallels between Spencer Lee and Penn State” etc etc lol. I always wonder why he’s asking the question and what he does with the answers. Writing a book? Falling asleep? Who knows. 

[scourge165]

1 hour ago, Mr. PeanutButter said:

What are you smoking 

...he's literally just ranking their finishes and then saying, 'did he turn Iowa around or just add to an already great program.'

 

Is that really such a ridiculous post he could only do so under the influence of some mind-altering drug?

[scourge165]

46 minutes ago, alex1fly said:

His questions consistently have an English Class Homework vibe to me. “Now that you have watched Les Miserable, discuss what impacts may be found in related circumstances in pre-unification Hawkeye country. Draw upon your prior knowledge to find parallels between Spencer Lee and Penn State” etc etc lol. I always wonder why he’s asking the question and what he does with the answers. Writing a book? Falling asleep? Who knows. 

Yeah, I remember being a little kid at the State Tournament with a cousin. I had another Cousin Wrestling. This was back when you could go down to the floor, with no security. And anyway, my older cousin is warming up, he's got the guy who...I believe won the State Title the year before and he's on Deck or in the Hole. Hood up, old school walkman. 

 

Me and my Cousin chose that time to go up to him to ask...I don't recall the question, but it was one of those REALLY annoying kid questions. Not quite who'd win Superman or Batman, but it was a question without a real answer, but I remember the look he gave us, and he tried to be nice and said something like, "guys...I gotta get ready here, I'll talk later."

 

Anyway...that's are more the types of Questions it feels like Jimmy is asking. The difference is, I think I stopped hounding people and asking those stupid questions when I was ~8 years old, but Jimmy, well, he found intermat forums. So he gets to stay 8 forever. 

[Spencerlee]

1 hour ago, scourge165 said:

...he's literally just ranking their finishes and then saying, 'did he turn Iowa around or just add to an already great program.'

 

Is that really such a ridiculous post he could only do so under the influence of some mind-altering drug?

Because he's not "literally just ranking their finishes" a lot of those finishes are either lies or messed up.

[jchapman]

4 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Marinelli was the #1 seed only twice. He was also the #3 seed once and the #5 seed once.

But to answer your question, only two guys have been the #1 seed three times without winning a title, Larry Zilverberg (1974, 1975, 1976) and Daton Fix (2109, 2021, 2024). Zilverberg finished second, third and sixth those three years. Fix finished second, second, and second.

He was the number 1 seed in 2019, 2020, and 2021.

[Wrestleknownothing]

3 hours ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Pretty good chance that most guys who are 4x B10 seeds and 3x #1 seeds are favored to win the tourney.  He appears to be the only 4x B10 champ to not win NCAAs.  Is he the only 3x #1 to not win?  @Jason  Bryant ?

While Marinelli was seeded first three times, one of those times was 2020. So he only wrestled two tournaments where he was the top seed. 

I found two guys who were #1 seeds three times and failed to win. Larry Zilverberg from 1974 to 1976, and Daton Fix in 2019, 2021, and 2024.

There is a possibility I am missing someone as I looked at AA finishes vs seed. So, like Marinelli in 2021, if someone was a #1 seed and failed to even AA, then I missed him.

[Wrestleknownothing]

5 minutes ago, jchapman said:

He was the number 1 seed in 2019, 2020, and 2021.

Yes, but the tournament was not wrestled in 2020. I fixed the wording.

[jchapman]

20 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Yes, but the tournament was not wrestled in 2020. I fixed the wording.

What's interesting is Marinelli only made the semi-finals once, and that was when he was the 5th seed.

[alex1fly]

1 hour ago, Spencerlee said:

Because he's not "literally just ranking their finishes" a lot of those finishes are either lies or messed up.

Looks like my Google search failed me. Here's what NCAA.com says from a 2022 article.

 

2014-2015	Tom Brands	17-1	T-1st	2nd
2015-2016	Tom Brands	16-1	2nd	5th
2016-2017	Tom Brands	13-2	3rd	4th
2017-2018	Tom Brands	12-3	4th	3rd
2018-2019	Tom Brands	14-1	3rd	4th
2019-2020	Tom Brands	13-0	1st	N/A
2020-2021	Tom Brands	5-0	1st	1st

I'm still skeptical of the claim that Lee turned the program around.

Edited September 26 by alex1fly