Penn State called out by JB

[headshuck]

I think it was a live interview after his match. More of a heat of the moment than a social media post. But I see he did choose to glamorize the video into a post so there’s that.

[wrestlingshoe]

If this was NBA or NFL people would love it or love to hate it... The wrestling community is small and intimate, that is what makes it seem so personal (to the athlete and the fan). JB has done wonders for the sport, uses whatever he wants to drive him to his next feat, and now has a shot at another world gold. 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

On 9/22/2024 at 10:18 AM, Antitroll2828 said:

Always with the JB fanboying , ridiculous this dude is 35 yr old multiple time world and Olympic champ and who literally can’t help himself from being petty on instragram bc of a match with a 19 yr old 6 months ago where he did some dirty stuff and got booed by the drunk home team fans .. like grow up , and everyone always defending everything he does. He refers to himself as the “goat” for christs sake , gets petty with a fan base he’s messed with for years bc he believes everyone should respect him with no critique bc he won an Olympic gold 12 years ago ..this is a man who needed to tweet in 2016 that any fan who rooted against him at trials should be ashamed of themselves..for how great of an athlete he is he’s really thinned skinned and petty 

MM was at least 20, possibly 21.

[AnklePicker]

On 9/22/2024 at 10:18 AM, Antitroll2828 said:

Always with the JB fanboying , ridiculous this dude is 35 yr old multiple time world and Olympic champ and who literally can’t help himself from being petty on instragram bc of a match with a 19 yr old 6 months ago where he did some dirty stuff and got booed by the drunk home team fans .. like grow up , and everyone always defending everything he does. He refers to himself as the “goat” for christs sake , gets petty with a fan base he’s messed with for years bc he believes everyone should respect him with no critique bc he won an Olympic gold 12 years ago ..this is a man who needed to tweet in 2016 that any fan who rooted against him at trials should be ashamed of themselves..for how great of an athlete he is he’s really thinned skinned and petty 

He refers to himself as the GOAT because he is the GOAT.  He's messed with the PSU fan base for years?  If you consider keeping their guys off of world and Olympic teams as "messing with them" then maybe you have a point.  Show us the tweet that said if you rooted against him you should be ashamed of yourself.

[PortaJohn]

28 minutes ago, AnklePicker said:

He refers to himself as the GOAT because he is the GOAT.  He's messed with the PSU fan base for years?  If you consider keeping their guys off of world and Olympic teams as "messing with them" then maybe you have a point.  Show us the tweet that said if you rooted against him you should be ashamed of yourself.

He is in no way shape or form the GOAT

[The Kid]

1 hour ago, PortaJohn said:

He is in no way shape or form the GOAT

He is for the USA. 

[PortaJohn]

7 minutes ago, The Kid said:

He is for the USA. 

John Smith is and people seem to forget Bruce won four Olympic Medals (G,G,S,B) and 9 world medals 3 G, 3 S, & 3 Bronze.  

Edited September 23 by PortaJohn

[AnklePicker]

1 hour ago, PortaJohn said:

John Smith is and people seem to forget Bruce won four Olympic Medals (G,G,S,B) and 9 world medals 3 G, 3 S, & 3 Bronze.  

No one forgets. We also remember it was at hwt when there were 10 weights and only 1 Russian. Same applies to Smith…10 weights 1 Russian. Now compare that to JB’s career and you tell me which is more difficult?  It’s debatable, but to say in no way shape or form disqualifies you from the argument. 

[Antitroll2828]

3 hours ago, AnklePicker said:

He refers to himself as the GOAT because he is the GOAT.  He's messed with the PSU fan base for years?  If you consider keeping their guys off of world and Olympic teams as "messing with them" then maybe you have a point.  Show us the tweet that said if you rooted against him you should be ashamed of yourself.

Picture of the tweet is on the previous thread about JB /MM , also floats around the penn state forum from time to time …also he’s not Goat by any metric ,top 3 yes but John Smith and Bruce both have better arguments 

[MPhillips]

13 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

but John Smith and Bruce both have better arguments 

But did they have similar competition...

Edited September 23 by MPhillips

[AnklePicker]

3 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

Picture of the tweet is on the previous thread about JB /MM , also floats around the penn state forum from time to time …also he’s not Goat by any metric ,top 3 yes but John Smith and Bruce both have better arguments 

No they don’t.  One year Smith won a JV tournament by the standards of JB’s competition. I love John Smith. Always have always will. But that’s just a fact. He beat Canadian Gary Bohay in the finals who never placed before of after the 1989 worlds and the East German placed 3rd.  Show me one single year that JB ever had to wrestle a tournament like that. Dude has 4 Russians in his weight nearly every year he competed.  And in much more condensed weight classes. He also has ANOTHER world gold over Smith. 

[PortaJohn]

29 minutes ago, AnklePicker said:

No one forgets. We also remember it was at hwt when there were 10 weights and only 1 Russian. Same applies to Smith…10 weights 1 Russian. Now compare that to JB’s career and you tell me which is more difficult?  It’s debatable, but to say in no way shape or form disqualifies you from the argument. 

You can't proclaim someone as the Goat that lost his spot and had to move to a non olympic weight.  You also can't proclaim someone as the Goat that didn't even medal during one of his olympic competitions.

EDIT:  Not going to delete it and hide from my second point but it's off the mark.  Satiev didn't medal in 2000 and many consider him the Goat

Edited September 23 by PortaJohn

[AnklePicker]

5 minutes ago, PortaJohn said:

You can't proclaim someone as the Goat that lost his spot and had to move to a non olympic weight.  You also can't proclaim someone as the Goat that didn't even medal during one of his olympic competitions.

EDIT:  Not going to delete it and hide from my second point but it's off the mark.  Satiev didn't medal in 2000 and many consider him the Goat

Saitiev also lost his spot one year so there goes that point as well. 

if you’d like we can also compare who they had to beat to make their world teams over the years. I have a feeling JB’s competition did just a bit better on the international stage. 

[MPhillips]

8 minutes ago, PortaJohn said:

You can't proclaim someone as the Goat that lost his spot and had to move to a non olympic weight. 

So you're taking away the GOAT status because of a loss at trials?

[Antitroll2828]

12 minutes ago, AnklePicker said:

No they don’t.  One year Smith won a JV tournament by the standards of JB’s competition. I love John Smith. Always have always will. But that’s just a fact. He beat Canadian Gary Bohay in the finals who never placed before of after the 1989 worlds and the East German placed 3rd.  Show me one single year that JB ever had to wrestle a tournament like that. Dude has 4 Russians in his weight nearly every year he competed.  And in much more condensed weight classes. He also has ANOTHER world gold over Smith. 

 

17 minutes ago, MPhillips said:

But did they have similar competition...

If you want to talk about competition let’s talk about JBs competition for his titles at 79kg , definitely not the toughest thats his past 2 WT and I know he just made the team this year but I’m old enough to remember everyone saying Logan Steibers title wasnt legit bc it was an Olympic year WT

[Antitroll2828]

1 minute ago, MPhillips said:

So you're taking away the GOAT status because of a loss at trials?

How are you the goat when you lost multiple times and had to bump up?

[MPhillips]

1 minute ago, Antitroll2828 said:

How are you the goat when you lost multiple times and had to bump up?

I believe it's Bruce.  I'm just curious why you believe it's Smith...

[AnklePicker]

5 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

 

If you want to talk about competition let’s talk about JBs competition for his titles at 79kg , definitely not the toughest thats his past 2 WT and I know he just made the team this year but I’m old enough to remember everyone saying Logan Steibers title wasnt legit bc it was an Olympic year WT

Ok let’s. In 2022 at 79kg by my count there are a minimum of 7 former Soviet countries represented in JB’s weight that year. In fact both bronze medalists are from former Soviet states.  He beat an Iranian in the finals.     Compare that to a Canadian who never places before or after and an East German. 

[AnklePicker]

19 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

How are you the goat when you lost multiple times and had to bump up?

I’m pretty sure Michael Jordan is the GOAT and I’m positive he was not nearly as good at the end of his i career as he was in the middle. This isn’t hard to understand. 

Edited September 23 by AnklePicker

[BAC]

 

3 hours ago, PortaJohn said:

You can't proclaim someone as the Goat that lost his spot and had to move to a non olympic weight.  You also can't proclaim someone as the Goat that didn't even medal during one of his olympic competitions.

These sorts of arguments puzzle me.

Let's imagine that John Smith didn't retire after '92, and instead decided to stick around another quad.  In '93 he takes bronze, in 94 he loses at WTTs but bumps up a weight and wins gold, in '95 he wins bronze, and in 96 he makes the Olympic team but DNPs, and leaves his shoes on his mat. 

Still pretty impressive right?  Instead of having 6 golds, now he has 7 golds and 2 bronzes.  Not as successful as his first 6 years, but still an impressive addition to his legacy!

But wait -- by sticking around another quad, did he those 3 additional medals cause him to LOSE his status as GOAT?  Since, after all, he "lost his spot and had to move" to another weight, and he also "didn't medal during one of his Olympic competitions."

Crazy, right?  

It seems really weird to argue that if you quit early, during your prime, you have a better argument at being the GOAT than if you'd stuck it out longer and brought home even more hardware (including gold).  Especially since EVERY athlete is eventually going to fade, lose to younger competition, DNP at a big tournament, etc.  Even if you're less successful in your later years, it isn't like it erases or cheapens what you did earlier.

Bottom line, quitting early shouldn't help your case to be GOAT.  Sticking it out and racking up medals should only help, as it shows not just excellence in your prime, but excellence over time.

Edited September 24 by BAC

[PortaJohn]

1 hour ago, BAC said:

 

These sorts of arguments puzzle me.

Let's imagine that John Smith didn't retire after '92, and instead decided to stick around another quad.  In '93 he takes bronze, in 94 he loses at WTTs but bumps up a weight and wins gold, in '95 he wins bronze, and in 96 he makes the Olympic team but DNPs, and leaves his shoes on his mat. 

Still pretty impressive right?  Instead of having 6 golds, now he has 7 golds and 2 bronzes.  Not as successful as his first 6 years, but still an impressive addition to his legacy!

But wait -- by sticking around another quad, did he those 3 additional medals cause him to LOSE his status as GOAT?  Since, after all, he "lost his spot and had to move" to another weight, and he also "didn't medal during one of his Olympic competitions."

Crazy, right?  

It seems really weird to argue that if you quit early, during your prime, you have a better argument at being the GOAT than if you'd stuck it out longer and brought home even more hardware (including gold).  Especially since EVERY athlete is eventually going to fade, lose to younger competition, DNP at a big tournament, etc.  Even if you're less successful in your later years, it isn't like it erases or cheapens what you did earlier.

Bottom line, quitting early shouldn't help your case to be GOAT.  Sticking it out and racking up medals should only help, as it shows not just excellence in your prime, but excellence over time.

Then Bruce Baumgartner is the Goat

[BAC]

37 minutes ago, PortaJohn said:

Then Bruce Baumgartner is the Goat

He might be.  But that conclusion doesn't flow from my comment.  Any addition to your medal count helps your case, but not all medals are the same color. The question is how you value them.

Truth is, all three guys have arguments:  JB has the most golds (7) plus a few bronzes, Smith has one fewer gold (6) but did it in consecutive years (with 2 Olympic golds not 1), Bruce has two fewer golds (5) but by far the most medals overall (13).  

 

 

[Hammerlock3]

8 hours ago, PortaJohn said:

John Smith is and people seem to forget Bruce won four Olympic Medals (G,G,S,B) and 9 world medals 3 G, 3 S, & 3 Bronze.  

the retort is most golds wins....hard to argue with.

Edited September 24 by Hammerlock3

[BAC]

Personally, I have JB #1, though it's close. It comes down to how you value gold vs other colors, and how you value Olympic gold vs world gold.

Versus Smith, he has 1 more gold plus 3 more bronzes.  I personally don't weigh Olympic gold much more than world gold, but even if you say Smith's Olympic gold is worth 2 golds (I don't), JB still has three extra medals. Olympic golds are more coveted for the fame they bring, but they aren't all that much harder to win, especially before they reduced the number of weight classes in the Olympics.  I also don't assign value to Smith winning his golds consecutively, which is more of a novelty -- something relevant only to who was best for a given 6 year period, not to who's the GOAT overall.

Versus Bruce, once you eliminate their common medals (5 gold, 3 bronze), JB has two extra golds vs Bruce's 4 silvers and a bronze. Which is a better indicator of excellence:  two years as champ, or 5 years of being good enough to medal but not win?  I think the former, and I'll bet Bruce would agree.  (And sorry, but I can't weigh Bruce's boycotted '84 Olympic gold higher than a world gold.  Just making it 1:1 is generous.)

There's other intangibles that go in JB's favor too, such as the reduced number of weight classes and the dispersion of Soviet bloc wrestlers over numerous countries, but I don't need to get there.

Note:  none of this changes the fact that I think JB's acting kinda butthurt with the PSU thing.  Relax man, you shove a home team wrestler and refuse to let him shake your coach's hand, you're gonna get booed, and one heckler who took it too far isn't representative of the whole program.  Still, I have JB as the GOAT.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

7 hours ago, BAC said:

Personally, I have JB #1, though it's close. It comes down to how you value gold vs other colors, and how you value Olympic gold vs world gold.

Versus Smith, he has 1 more gold plus 3 more bronzes.  I personally don't weigh Olympic gold much more than world gold, but even if you say Smith's Olympic gold is worth 2 golds (I don't), JB still has three extra medals. Olympic golds are more coveted for the fame they bring, but they aren't all that much harder to win, especially before they reduced the number of weight classes in the Olympics.  I also don't assign value to Smith winning his golds consecutively, which is more of a novelty -- something relevant only to who was best for a given 6 year period, not to who's the GOAT overall.

Versus Bruce, once you eliminate their common medals (5 gold, 3 bronze), JB has two extra golds vs Bruce's 4 silvers and a bronze. Which is a better indicator of excellence:  two years as champ, or 5 years of being good enough to medal but not win?  I think the former, and I'll bet Bruce would agree.  (And sorry, but I can't weigh Bruce's boycotted '84 Olympic gold higher than a world gold.  Just making it 1:1 is generous.)

There's other intangibles that go in JB's favor too, such as the reduced number of weight classes and the dispersion of Soviet bloc wrestlers over numerous countries, but I don't need to get there.

Note:  none of this changes the fact that I think JB's acting kinda butthurt with the PSU thing.  Relax man, you shove a home team wrestler and refuse to let him shake your coach's hand, you're gonna get booed, and one heckler who took it too far isn't representative of the whole program.  Still, I have JB as the GOAT.

"Home team" In freestyle?  Does that mean MM is allowed to get chippy and instigate JB?

Instigation, shoving, wrestling after the whistle, wrestling out of bounds by MM is fine, then?  Amazing how many people don't comment on that stuff.

Edited September 24 by Interviewed_at_Weehawken