National Debt

[jross]

12 hours ago, billyhoyle said:

Nobody, including Biden, wants to deal with the crying that would happen from either raising taxes or cutting spending.  There is all this talk about how nobody can afford groceries, yet many people (who are not rich at all) are shelling out thousands for Taylor swift tickets and designer bags, overpriced uber eats delivery, a million different streaming services, etc. I don't buy at all that things are difficult right now for the middle class-in fact I think we are spending out of control and selling out future generations so people today can live beyond their means. 

FOMO.  I have a young (and poor early 20s) niece who spent her last dollars for Taylor Swift tickets rather than her medical expenses.  Reckless spending is a coping mechanism...

Regardless of how you manage your spending, there are trade-offs to maintain that current life style. For me, paying the higher costs for the status quo means delaying my retirement plans.  (family of five)

[Lipdrag]

3 hours ago, jross said:

Reckless spending is a coping mechanism...

By Coping Mechanism do you mean NOT COPING?  A coping mechanism would be getting a second job to pay for medical needs, or changing lifestyle (diet, exercise, sleep) to minimize negative medical outcomes if this is related to influencable body chemistry or composition.  Splurging is not coping.  Splurging, bingeing, shooting up, toking, etc is the deferment of coping.

[jross]

Yes!

[mspart]

2 hours ago, Lipdrag said:

By Coping Mechanism do you mean NOT COPING?  A coping mechanism would be getting a second job to pay for medical needs, or changing lifestyle (diet, exercise, sleep) to minimize negative medical outcomes if this is related to influencable body chemistry or composition.  Splurging is not coping.  Splurging, bingeing, shooting up, toking, etc is the deferment of coping.

Well put.

mspart

[billyhoyle]

14 hours ago, jross said:

FOMO.  I have a young (and poor early 20s) niece who spent her last dollars for Taylor Swift tickets rather than her medical expenses.  Reckless spending is a coping mechanism...

Regardless of how you manage your spending, there are trade-offs to maintain that current life style. For me, paying the higher costs for the status quo means delaying my retirement plans.  (family of five)

I agree with everything you are saying.  People want to pay nothing in taxes but also have great roads, great schools, strong military, free healthcare, free IVF. Politicians from both political parties are willing to drive up spending/cut taxes because they know it won't be their problem, and their only goal is to get the votes of these people.

You even have posters here saying on one hand they care about the national debt, but on the other the most important thing is to pay as little as possible in taxes.  There is nobody trying to actually put together a responsible economic plan-it's government of handouts (No tax on tips, no tax on social security, no tax on overtime, free down payments on houses for all, free IVF for all). 

Edited September 19 by billyhoyle

[Caveira]

On 9/18/2024 at 10:19 PM, billyhoyle said:

You even have posters here saying on one hand they care about the national debt, but on the other the most important thing is to pay as little as possible in taxes.

Who?

[Scouts Honor]

On 9/18/2024 at 10:19 PM, billyhoyle said:

I agree with everything you are saying.  People want to pay nothing in taxes but also have great roads, great schools, strong military, free healthcare, free IVF. Politicians from both political parties are willing to drive up spending/cut taxes because they know it won't be their problem, and their only goal is to get the votes of these people.

You even have posters here saying on one hand they care about the national debt, but on the other the most important thing is to pay as little as possible in taxes.  There is nobody trying to actually put together a responsible economic plan-it's government of handouts (No tax on tips, no tax on social security, no tax on overtime, free down payments on houses for all, free IVF for all). 

i have an idea. do both.

i can post money wasted until the cows come home if you don't think its possible to do both

[billyhoyle]

2 hours ago, Scouts Honor said:

i have an idea. do both.

i can post money wasted until the cows come home if you don't think its possible to do both

They do the opposite.  Tax cuts decrease revenue so would undo any gains you make from decreasing spending. What we need to address the defecit is to either raise taxes or decrease spending. People who want the opposite of those things don't actually care about the debt/defecit and fit in the category of wanting free stuff. And I think both political parties refuse to address the debt because it's easier to get elected by promising people free stuff. 

[Caveira]

6 hours ago, Caveira said:

Who?

@billyhoylesince your on.  
 

who?

[Scouts Honor]

11 hours ago, billyhoyle said:

They do the opposite.  Tax cuts decrease revenue so would undo any gains you make from decreasing spending. What we need to address the defecit is to either raise taxes or decrease spending. People who want the opposite of those things don't actually care about the debt/defecit and fit in the category of wanting free stuff. And I think both political parties refuse to address the debt because it's easier to get elected by promising people free stuff. 

no. we have enough EXTRA spending to offset any tax cuts

[Saylors_Tiny_Willie]

24 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

no. we have enough EXTRA spending to offset any tax cuts

This is dumb, even for you.

[wrestlingguy]

I think we could balance the budget real quick if the government was held accountable for their frivolous spending. They act like the person that abuses the corporate credit card because it's not coming out of their bank account.

[Scouts Honor]

3 hours ago, Saylors_Tiny_Willie said:

This is dumb, even for you.

tell me where on the line billion goes buddy

million on one end, trillion on the other

[Scouts Honor]

 

[Scouts Honor]

nearly a billion in 2 posts

 

[mspart]

On 9/18/2024 at 8:19 PM, billyhoyle said:

You even have posters here saying on one hand they care about the national debt, but on the other the most important thing is to pay as little as possible in taxes. 

You have posters here that also call for way more taxation as a why to reduce the deficits, but absolutely refuses to look at history and know when new money comes in, new spending in the same or more amount occurs.  

Yes, we should care about the national debt.   It is criminal.   But we should not be taxed out of our living, the government must reduce spending to more natural levels.   The government gets plenty to afford the things they need to do.   They just want to do more that is not necessary.  

mspart

[mspart]

Look, there is a point at which less taxation (and regulations)  increases money coming in to the treasury.   It is not the case that all tax decreases involve revenue decreases.   That has been proven.   Maximize that and curb the appetite. 

mspart

[billyhoyle]

4 hours ago, mspart said:

Look, there is a point at which less taxation (and regulations)  increases money coming in to the treasury.   It is not the case that all tax decreases involve revenue decreases.   That has been proven.   Maximize that and curb the appetite. 

mspart

That is only true when taxes are extremely high. They aren't high historically, and more tax cuts are going to screw up the debt even more.  So will more spending. I would like a political candidate to run for office that was honest with the public and actually cared about the debt, and unfortunately we don't have that. The sad thing is historically that would be the candidate for a conservative party, but Reagan, Bush2, and Trump all ballooned the debt.  Obama and Biden did as well.

[mspart]

The problem is that Reagan, Bush2, Trump, Obama, and Biden all increased spending at a rate faster than revenue grew.   And that is the problem. 

mspart

[Saylors_Tiny_Willie]

Whoops!

https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/24/business/kamala-harris-economy-endorsement/index.html

[jross]

Letters like that are examples of what’s wrong with politics today—using strong persuasion tactics built on nonsense.

It’s outrageous to claim: “Vice President Harris has been a strong steward of the U.S. economy while working tirelessly to strengthen the middle class. During her time as Vice President, she has worked on behalf of American families to lower costs, cut taxes, raise wages, and promote worker organizing.”

Every shopper knows the economy is worse.

Hey Kamala—what’s your actual plan to fix the economy? I grew up in the middle class...

Do you really believe this, or are you just showing how easily politicians manipulate the people?

[Lipdrag]

14 hours ago, billyhoyle said:

That is only true when taxes are extremely high. They aren't high historically,

Taxes are very high based on history.  The percentage of a person's income, or of GDP, that is gobbled up by government agencies is increasing.  The silly concept that federal marginal income rate that applies to a small slice of the population means "taxes are up or taxes are down" shows lack of basic numeracy.  Taxes are the highest they have ever been in terms of actual dollars paid by actual Americans to their various governments.

Americans are paying the highest taxes in our history.  BY FAR.

[mspart]

This is quite interesting.   46% of GDP goes to taxes?   Revolutions have been spawned for less.   I don't pay 46% of my pay in taxes to the feds.     Gas tax, sales tax are kind of hidden so it is hard to say.   This is really quite interesting and belies the fact that the government wants too much.   50% taxation is practically slavery.   It is what colonies pay to their overlords.  

mspart

[Scouts Honor]

3 hours ago, Saylors_Tiny_Willie said:

Whoops!

https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/24/business/kamala-harris-economy-endorsement/index.html

you realize the 400 economists endorse her, not b/c she is good at dealing with the economy, but b/c they are democrats

[wrestlingguy]

24 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

you realize the 400 economists endorse her, not b/c she is good at dealing with the economy, but b/c they are democrats

I would be interested to know what policy these economists are basing their opinion off of?

How much were they paid? .

It is no coincidence that all of a sudden Kamala is pretending to care about the economy.