At the Debate Tonight

[Saylors_Tiny_Willie]

Speaking of Nikki Haley...

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/opinion/columnists/iowa-view/2024/09/20/republicans-for-kamala-harris-dawn-roberts-iowa-campaign-nikki-haley/75306017007/

[Wrestleknownothing]

3 hours ago, wrestlingguy said:

Joe Biden's Timeline of Racial Comments and Actions

• From 1971 to 1974, Biden's legal residence had a deed barring ownership by African Americans.

• In 1974, Biden made an analogy of himself as a 29 year old in the Senate to being a "token black."

• In 1975, Biden asked if "the only way a black man or woman can learn is if they rub shoulders with my white child?"

• In 1977, Biden said that busing would cause his children to grow up in "a racial jungle."

• In 1977, Biden voted against Black Justice Department nominees specifically over his opposition to busing.

• In 1977, Biden said he asked to join the Senate Judiciary Committee specifically to lead the charge against busing.

• In 1979, Biden voted to allow racially segregated private schools to keep their tax exempt status.

• In 1981, Biden said George Wallace was "right about some things."

• In 1984, Biden used the word "boy" to refer to Jesse Jackson.

• In 1985, Biden made a favorable comparison between segregationist Senator John Stennis and Confederate General Stonewall Jackson.

• In 1987, Biden "sought to appeal to white voters" by touting an award he received from George Wallace in 1973 where he praised Biden as "one of the outstanding young politicians in America."

• During his 1988 campaign, Biden falsely claimed he was part of the civil rights movement, saying he "marched" in his "youth."

• In 2006, Biden said, "you cannot go to a 7-11 or a Dunkin Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent."

• In his 2007 book, Promises To Keep, Biden admitted that, as a young person, he had "no real relationships with Black people."

• In 2007, Biden called then-Sen. Barack Obama "the first mainstream African American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy."

• In 2010, Biden delivered a 22-minute eulogy, the longest speech, at Senator Robert Byrd's (D-WV) memorial service, calling the former KKK member a "friend," "mentor," and "guide."

• In 2016, Biden praised segregationist Senator John Stennis as a "friend" and an "honorable" man.

• In 2019, Biden recalled the era when "he was able to get along with segregationist senators."

• In 2019, Biden boasted that segregationist Senator James Eastland called him son, not boy.

• In 2019, Biden said the Obama administration went "into the hood" of Detroit to recruit minorities.

• In 2019, Biden claimed a major problem Black communities face is illiteracy, saying Black "parents can't read or write themselves," leaving Black attendees "shocked and frustrated."

• In 2019, Biden said that "poor kids are just as bright and just as talented as white kids."

• In 2020, Biden suggested some people were able to quarantine during Covid because "some black woman was able to stack the grocery shelf."

Racial does not equal racist. A very important distinction that the author of this list was well aware, but hoped the readers of this list would ignore.

Edited September 20, 2024 by Wrestleknownothing

[Scouts Honor]

being racial consistently probably reveals the racist nature 

[billyhoyle]

 

8 hours ago, jross said:

Will you take 4 minutes to listen to what Trump said on August 14th, and then revisit his words from August 15th.

The transcript is provided under the video from August 14th.

August 14th

...but based on the events that took place over the weekend in Charlottesville, Virginia, I would like to provide the nation with an update on the ongoing federal response to the horrific attack and violence that was witnessed by everyone.

I just met with FBI Director Christopher Wray and Attorney General Jeff Sessions. The Department of Justice has opened a civil rights investigation into the deadly car attack that killed one innocent American and wounded 20 others. To anyone who acted criminally in this weekend's racist violence, you will be held fully accountable. Justice will be delivered.

As I said on Saturday, we condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry, and violence. It has no place in America. And as I have said many times before, no matter the color of our skin, we all live under the same laws, we all salute the same great flag, and we are all made by the same almighty God. We must love each other, show affection for each other, and unite together in condemnation of hatred, bigotry, and violence. We must rediscover the bonds of love and loyalty that bring us together as Americans.

Racism is evil, and those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans. We are a nation founded on the truth that all of us are created equal. We are equal in the eyes of our Creator, we are equal under the law, and we are equal under our Constitution. Those who spread violence in the name of bigotry strike at the very core of America.

Two days ago, a young American woman, Heather Hayer, was tragically killed. Her death fills us with grief, and we send her family our thoughts, our prayers, and our love. We also mourn the two Virginia state troopers who died in service to their community, their Commonwealth, and their country. Troopers Jay Cullen and Burke Bates exemplify the very best of America, and our hearts go out to their families, their friends, and every member of American law enforcement. These three fallen Americans embody the goodness and decency of our nation.

That statement standing alone is great, but when has he ever said he was wrong to say that there were "very fine people on both sides" ?  Yes, he condemned the KKK and Nazis, as he did in the press conference as well, but he never once was willing to say that the comment about there being "very fine people on both sides" was incorrect.  If you say that there are fine people attending a neo nazi rally, it isn't enough to just say nazis are bad. He needs to say that he was incorrect to suggest that "fine people" marched among those chanting "Jews will not replace us."

Edited September 20, 2024 by billyhoyle

[jross]

33 minutes ago, billyhoyle said:

That statement standing alone is great, but when has he ever said he was wrong to say that there were "very fine people on both sides" ?  Yes, he condemned the KKK and Nazis, as he did in the press conference as well, but he never once was willing to say that the comment about there being "very fine people on both sides" was incorrect.  If you say that there are fine people attending a neo nazi rally, it isn't enough to just say nazis are bad. He needs to say that he was incorrect to suggest that "fine people" marched among those chanting "Jews will not replace us."

Even if one believes as you do that there were only white supremacists and neo-Nazis, its clear that Trump was not talking about neo-Nazis and white supremacists.  You are being unusually dishonest about this.

----

TRUMP: Those people – all of those people, excuse me – I’ve condemned neo-Nazis. I’ve condemned many different groups, but not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me. Not all of those people were white supremacists by any stretch.

TRUMP: Those people were also there, because they wanted to protest the taking down of a statue Robert E. Lee. So – excuse me – and you take a look at some of the groups and you see, and you’d know it if you were honest reporters, which in many cases you’re not. Many of those people were there to protest the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee. So this week, it’s Robert E. Lee, I noticed that Stonewall Jackson’s coming down. I wonder, is it George Washington next week? And is it Thomas Jefferson the week after. You know, you really do have to ask yourself, where does it stop?

[jross]

Part of the confusion stems from the torch-lit march the night before, where protesters chanting slogans like “Jews will not replace us” were clearly associated with white supremacist and neo-Nazi ideologies. The next day included those individuals, members of militia groups, AND what Trump referred to as “fine people” who were peacefully protesting the removal of the Robert E. Lee statue.

While it’s understandable to question whether anyone protesting to keep the statue could be considered "fine people," it’s disingenuous to ignore what Trump repeatedly said and twist it into support for racism.

[billyhoyle]

32 minutes ago, jross said:

Even if one believes as you do that there were only white supremacists and neo-Nazis, its clear that Trump was not talking about neo-Nazis and white supremacists.  You are being unusually dishonest about this.

----

TRUMP: Those people – all of those people, excuse me – I’ve condemned neo-Nazis. I’ve condemned many different groups, but not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me. Not all of those people were white supremacists by any stretch.

TRUMP: Those people were also there, because they wanted to protest the taking down of a statue Robert E. Lee. So – excuse me – and you take a look at some of the groups and you see, and you’d know it if you were honest reporters, which in many cases you’re not. Many of those people were there to protest the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee. So this week, it’s Robert E. Lee, I noticed that Stonewall Jackson’s coming down. I wonder, is it George Washington next week? And is it Thomas Jefferson the week after. You know, you really do have to ask yourself, where does it stop?

I think we are getting close to understanding each other's perspective.  What you have in bold above is exactly what I take issue with, that he would suggest people who marched with those chanting "Jews will not replace us" and attending a rally organized by known neo nazis were very fine people.  I'm sorry, but anyone in a crowd with others chanting "jews will not replace us" who kept marching is not a fine person. Anyone attending a rally organized by known neo nazis, when the rally had many confederate and nazi flags flying (yes, there were nazi flags among the protesters) and not leaving that protest is not a fine person. Trump has many followers, and most are not marching with people chanting "jews will not replace us" and flying nazi flags.  

 

20 minutes ago, jross said:

Part of the confusion stems from the torch-lit march the night before, where protesters chanting slogans like “Jews will not replace us” were clearly associated with white supremacist and neo-Nazi ideologies. The next day included those individuals, members of militia groups, AND what Trump referred to as “fine people” who were peacefully protesting the removal of the Robert E. Lee statue.

While it’s understandable to question whether anyone protesting to keep the statue could be considered "fine people," it’s disingenuous to ignore what Trump repeatedly said and twist it into support for racism.

Ok, so are we now agreeing that the people who attended the march the night before were neo nazis and bad people? If so, that is progress, and I'm happy to hear it, but I don't think Trump agrees with that. Trump condemns neo nazis but is adamant that there were very fine people at the Charlottesville protest. 

Given that, in what world were the people who attended the second day fine people? They attended knowing that the night before there was the tiki torch march organized by the exact same people. So they attended knowing it was organized by neo nazis.  Then when they were there, the protesters had a bunch of confederate and nazi flags flying amongst them. Why would "fine people" march with them and not leave a protest after realizing there were nazis there on your side?

Edited September 20, 2024 by billyhoyle

[Saylors_Tiny_Willie]

3 hours ago, jross said:

Part of the confusion stems from the torch-lit march the night before, where protesters chanting slogans like “Jews will not replace us” were clearly associated with white supremacist and neo-Nazi ideologies. The next day included those individuals, members of militia groups, AND what Trump referred to as “fine people” who were peacefully protesting the removal of the Robert E. Lee statue.

While it’s understandable to question whether anyone protesting to keep the statue could be considered "fine people," it’s disingenuous to ignore what Trump repeatedly said and twist it into support for racism.

Were you a professional gymnast or did you learn it in politics?

[jross]

Trump: Bad people are bad.  There were bad people *10 on the right and bad people on the left too.

Trump: There were fine people there (Saturday) who were not the bad people I just mentioned. The bad people are unacceptable.

Billy: See? Trump called the bad people fine people.

Terrance Howard: I agree with Billy. According to my logic, 1*1 = 2.

Theoretically, Trump could be the most racist person alive, and if only violent racists were present, in reality, he directly condemned racists and stated he was not calling them fine.

Emotion overcomes logic here because Trump also condemned violence from counter-protesters.  Cognitive bias leads Billy to dismiss Trump’s much greater focus on the racists. Trump’s actual words do not downplay the racists.

Edited September 21, 2024 by jross

[jross]

11 hours ago, Saylors_Tiny_Willie said:

Were you a professional gymnast or did you learn it in politics?

I am trained in logic.

[Saylors_Tiny_Willie]

30 minutes ago, jross said:

I am trained in logic.

Demand your money back.

[jross]

28 minutes ago, Saylors_Tiny_Willie said:

Demand your money back.

I am not a Chad and I do not identify as a Karen.  Bye Felicia.

Edited September 21, 2024 by jross

[billyhoyle]

8 hours ago, jross said:

Trump: Bad people are bad.  There were bad people *10 on the right and bad people on the left too.

Trump: There were fine people there (Saturday) who were not the bad people I just mentioned. The bad people are unacceptable.

Billy: See? Trump called the bad people fine people.

Terrance Howard: I agree with Billy. According to my logic, 1*1 = 2.

Theoretically, Trump could be the most racist person alive, and if only violent racists were present, in reality, he directly condemned racists and stated he was not calling them fine.

Emotion overcomes logic here because Trump also condemned violence from counter-protesters.  Cognitive bias leads Billy to dismiss Trump’s much greater focus on the racists. Trump’s actual words do not downplay the racists.

Who were the fine people that attended the protest organized by neo nazis that had people marching with nazi  and kkk symbols? The Friday Night and Saturday events were not separate-it was part of the same protest and the same hate groups showed up to both. There weren't good people who attended on Saturday.

I'm not claiming that everyone who goes to trump rallies is a bad person.  In fact, if you show up to a trump rally with a nazi flag, you will be kicked out and booed by the people there. The unite the right rally in Charlottesville was a very different type of rally-it was literally a neo nazi/KKK rally organized by neo nazis where people openly carried neo nazi flags and chanted "jews will not replace us."  

This is from Saturday-I know there is no way you (or most Trump supporters) would attend this type of march. Or if you showed up thinking it was just a regular march against the removal of a statue but seeing it was actually KKK members, you would leave. The people there are the worst parts of society. 

Edited September 21, 2024 by billyhoyle

[Caveira]

1 hour ago, billyhoyle said:

Who were the fine people that attended the protest organized by neo nazis that had people marching with nazi  and kkk symbols? The Friday Night and Saturday events were not separate-it was part of the same protest and the same hate groups showed up to both. There weren't good people who attended on Saturday.

I'm not claiming that everyone who goes to trump rallies is a bad person.  In fact, if you show up to a trump rally with a nazi flag, you will be kicked out and booed by the people there. The unite the right rally in Charlottesville was a very different type of rally-it was literally a neo nazi/KKK rally organized by neo nazis where people openly carried neo nazi flags and chanted "jews will not replace us."  

This is from Saturday-I know there is no way you (or most Trump supporters) would attend this type of march. Or if you showed up thinking it was just a regular march against the removal of a statue but seeing it was actually KKK members, you would leave. The people there are the worst parts of society. 

I mean he said there were bad people there.  Thanks for the photos ?

[Saylors_Tiny_Willie]

:chicken noises:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/09/21/trump-harris-second-debate/

[billyhoyle]

3 hours ago, Caveira said:

I mean he said there were bad people there.  Thanks for the photos ?

What good person would march with those people in a rally organized by people who are known to be neo nazis/members of the KKK? Nobody in that crowd is a "fine person."  The Charlottesville protest was a KKK/Neo nazi rally. 

Edited September 22, 2024 by billyhoyle

[Caveira]

3 minutes ago, billyhoyle said:

What good person would march with those people in a rally organized by people who are known to be neo nazis/members of the KKK? Nobody in that crowd is a "fine person."  The Charlottesville protest was a KKK/Neo nazi rally. 

Some people want to come and see what’s going on.  Some people are objective.  Some people don’t support hate but want to see what a hate rally is all about.   Some people want to know how bad the hate is.  Or isn’t.    These are people who didn’t march with them. …. But who were just there.    

I’ll ask a diff question.  While antifa was burning down cities during the blm protests….. while they were throwing Molotov cocktails at police …. Or a gov building.  Or a courthouse.  Or a police station.    Antifa was doing this correct?   Are 100% of the protesters there antifa?   Probably not.  Are there some peaceful protesters there from the left.   100% yes.   Obviously.  But some are militant crazies…. And if your objective you know this.  
 

I am to lazy to find/post….. but There is a vid of a left cnn type news person going live on air while buildings are on fire behind him saying this is a mostly peaceful protest.   I know y’all won’t get the difference.   It that’s what it is.  
 

you have been shown 484838383848383783833838833838 times in this thread where Trump denounced the kkk and the whatever other org you want but it’s ignored because your rooting for your team.   That’s cool.  But that’s not objective.     You were provided the transcript a half a dozen times.   You choose not to see this.   

[Saylors_Tiny_Willie]

[Scouts Honor]

11 hours ago, billyhoyle said:

What good person would march with those people in a rally organized by people who are known to be neo nazis/members of the KKK? Nobody in that crowd is a "fine person."  The Charlottesville protest was a KKK/Neo nazi rally. 

now do the palestinian supporters marching with nazis

[Saylors_Tiny_Willie]

4 hours ago, Scouts Honor said:

now do the palestinian supporters marching with nazis

Do these things algebraically cancel out in your head?

[Caveira]

16 hours ago, billyhoyle said:

What good person would march with those people in a rally organized by people who are known to be neo nazis/members of the KKK? Nobody in that crowd is a "fine person."  The Charlottesville protest was a KKK/Neo nazi rally. 

See that’s the thing you can’t seem to get through your head.   Just because they are in attendance does not mean they are marching “with” them.    

Some Muslims live near known terrorists.  Are they terrorists too?  

when antifa attends a peaceful protest…. Do the peaceful protestors now become antifa?   Save your obvious argument here…. Everyone knew antifa was coming to every blm march.   

When antifa burns down city buildings…. Are the others now complacent in that event?

@billyhoyle comments / thoughts on this vid 

 

[jross]

16 hours ago, billyhoyle said:

What good person would march with those people in a rally organized by people who are known to be neo nazis/members of the KKK? Nobody in that crowd is a "fine person."  The Charlottesville protest was a KKK/Neo nazi rally. 

Because Trump maintains (repeatedly) that groups A and B are bad, the existence or absence of group C does not alter that assessment. Group C’s presence might add nuance, but it doesn't negate the classification of A and B as negative.

[Scouts Honor]

4 hours ago, Saylors_Tiny_Willie said:

Do these things algebraically cancel out in your head?

so you are saying there weren't nazis there? 

 

[Scouts Honor]

 

[Scouts Honor]

do you need more proof of nazis working with jihadis?