Trump catches himself saying the quiet part out loud

[jross]

1 hour ago, fishbane said:

Should the president impact culture?  Is that really the mark of a good leader?  If we made a list of heads of state and former heads of states over history that had the greatest impact on their country's/world culture it would be at least equal parts infamous.

Yes.  No.  Agree.

 

[red viking]

27 minutes ago, jross said:

And we conservatives/all are getting force fed cultural support for abortion and self-interest over traditional family values.

Almost 100% of abortions are single-family households (unless they are being done for medical reasons) so saying that abortion is being chosen "over" traditional family values is complete nonsense. 

You're free to have your own traditional family. Nobody is trying to stop you, so maybe the 'wingers should concentrate on their own relationships instead of trying to pick apart alternative ones. 

[uncle bernard]

52 minutes ago, mspart said:

Are you saying that you don't mind if the government grows so big it spends more than the annual GDP of the productive class?   I hope that is not what you are saying.    But it seems like you are.

Government does not create, it uses.   Private Enterprise creates.

mspart

If you ignore all the examples to the contrary, sure.

[uncle bernard]

55 minutes ago, jross said:

1. Are you in fear of losing your job if you share commonly held opinions at work or in public?  Fear because a conservative is going to call your employer and try to get you fired?

Karens and Chads exist on the conservative side too.  Most conservatives I know will refrain from policing your freedom of speech.  They won't invite you to their party but they aren't going to try to ruin your life.

2. It is better this year than last year, but maybe that's just me staying away from the city after the crimes committed against me.

3. Something like 19% of Biden supporters believe that having children and marriage is important.  When is the last time you saw a TV show with a nuclear family?  My children don't even know if they want to have children and one doesn't know about marriage.  And this is tragic.  Children raised apart from the care of both natural parents consistently experience lower developmental outcomes.

A century ago (1920) almost all children (above 90 percent) grew to age eighteen with intact married biological parents; by 2020, less than a third (29 percent) could expect to do so (Parker, Horowitz, and Rohal 2015). Today less than 60 percent of children even begin life with married parents (Ventura 2009; Martin et al. 2019), and half of those who do will be denied the residential care of one or both parents before age eighteen (Amato 2000).  link

And we conservatives/all are getting force fed cultural support for abortion and self-interest over traditional family values.

 

27 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

1. The number 1 threat to my job would be from conservatives for my pro-palestine views, so yes. They have very publicly been going after peoples' jobs or students' futures for this. Conservatives have also been working hard to get teachers fired for "promoting" woke ideology.

2. I'm sorry crimes were committed against you. Crime will always exist. It's far, far lower than it was in 70s-90s.

3. Where are you getting those numbers? I don't watch network TV, so I can't speak to current shows, but I do know Modern Family was huge and that featured 3 nuclear families. I feel like sitcoms are out of style in general. Most shows are focused around Doctors or Cops these days I think.

4. So your guy is the twice-divorced billionaire who cheats on his wife with pornstars? Is that supposed to promote the nuclear family? As opposed to the faithful catholic guy with 4 children and 7 grandchildren? You're gonna have to explain that one to me.

 

Can't believe I forgot the last line!

"force fed cultural support for abortion"

Translation: most of the country disagrees with you and it makes you uncomfortable. The culture has no responsibility to cater to your minority views. Last time I checked, conservatives aren't being forced to have abortions. That's all they're owed by our free society.

How can you preach "personal accountability" and complain when everybody else doesn't censor their views to protect your feelings?

 

Edited June 11 by uncle bernard

[jross]

1 minute ago, uncle bernard said:

1. The number 1 threat to my job would be from conservatives for my pro-palestine views, so yes. They have very publicly been going after peoples' jobs or students' futures for this. Conservatives have also been working hard to get teachers fired for "promoting" woke ideology.

2. I'm sorry crimes were committed against you. Crime will always exist. It's far, far lower than it was in 70s-90s.

3. Where are you getting those numbers? I don't watch network TV, so I can't speak to current shows, but I do know Modern Family was huge and that featured 3 nuclear families. I feel like sitcoms are out of style in general. Most shows are focused around Doctors or Cops these days I think.

4. So your guy is the twice-divorced billionaire who cheats on his wife with pornstars? Is that supposed to promote the nuclear family? As opposed to the faithful catholic guy with 4 children and 7 grandchildren? You're gonna have to explain that one to me.

1. Ugh.  What is a pro-Palestine comment that you think would get you canceled?  I don't mind pro-Palestine empathy but if those words support harassment and violence...  I think you are right and my brain hurts. 
   1. I believe teachers suck at suck at their job if they are intentionally imposing their beliefs on students and students feel pressure to conform to succeed.  And that is specifically when the taught values conflict with mine.  I want teachers to teach critical thinking without imposing their bias.
   2. I coach a youth baseball team and am intentionally teaching pride, discipline, and accountability as success enablers.  Those without pride, who don't give their full effort and cry at mistakes, face consequences with playing time and opportunity.  
2.  ...
3. 19% comes from Pew Research.
4. You seem to be shifting the focus. I'm talking about the noticeable increase in the celebration of non-straight sexual orientations, especially at Pride events. Don't get me wrong; I'm all for celebrating diversity and personal choices. I just think we could dial it down a bit and have a balanced approach in the public square.

I don't look to Trump or Biden as moral beacons or role models. For me, it's about policy outcomes.

[jross]

1 hour ago, uncle bernard said:

Translation: most of the country disagrees with you and it makes you uncomfortable.

It is sad that word games (euphemisms) are necessary to help people tolerate their personal decision to end an innocent life.  That's not a baby, its a fetus.  It's not a fetus, its a clump of cells.  It's not alive.  That's not deliberate murder, that's termination of a human life.  No, its a medical procedure.  No, its abortion.  

And then the way to get everyone to agree is to focus on the extremes... as if the majority wants the mother to die at the cost of her newborn.  Those fascists want you to die!  The don't believe in personal autonomy.

Lies.

Deceiving themself; too cowardly to face the truth of their decision.

Too self-indulgent to care about the new life they created.

The machine has been in the business of destroying the family for 100 years and counting.

These young mothers probably can't even make their bed, how are they going to raise a child?

Edited June 11 by jross

[jross]

1 hour ago, red viking said:

Almost 100% of abortions are single-family households (unless they are being done for medical reasons) so saying that abortion is being chosen "over" traditional family values is complete nonsense. 

You're free to have your own traditional family. Nobody is trying to stop you, so maybe the 'wingers should concentrate on their own relationships instead of trying to pick apart alternative ones. 

Does it bother you when a 'winger' shares research that the traditional family leads to better outcomes for the child, and that the traditional family has shrunk for children from 90% to 30%.

[uncle bernard]

25 minutes ago, jross said:

1. Ugh.  What is a pro-Palestine comment that you think would get you canceled?  I don't mind pro-Palestine empathy but if those words support harassment and violence...  I think you are right and my brain hurts. 
   1. I believe teachers suck at suck at their job if they are intentionally imposing their beliefs on students and students feel pressure to conform to succeed.  And that is specifically when the taught values conflict with mine.  I want teachers to teach critical thinking without imposing their bias.
   2. I coach a youth baseball team and am intentionally teaching pride, discipline, and accountability as success enablers.  Those without pride, who don't give their full effort and cry at mistakes, face consequences with playing time and opportunity.  
2.  ...
3. 19% comes from Pew Research.
4. You seem to be shifting the focus. I'm talking about the noticeable increase in the celebration of non-straight sexual orientations, especially at Pride events. Don't get me wrong; I'm all for celebrating diversity and personal choices. I just think we could dial it down a bit and have a balanced approach in the public square.

I don't look to Trump or Biden as moral beacons or role models. For me, it's about policy outcomes.

So you want the government to enforce limitations on free speech in the public square? Is that not "Big Government?"

1 minute ago, jross said:

Does it bother you when a 'winger' shares research that the traditional family leads to better outcomes for the child, and that the traditional family has shrunk for children from 90% to 30%.

No. Why would it? Just from a household income standpoint, that makes raising a child much, much easier.

You complain about Big Government, yet want them to stop people from expressing themselves in public because it makes you uncomfortable. You complain about the downturn in the nuclear family, but I think you'd call any sort of public aid program that incentivizes children and makes them easier to raise "Big Government."

The word I'd use to sum up your belief system is "ENTITLED."

You literally want a safe space from views and lifestyles you don't agree with. Where does your "personal responsibility" to ignore what you don't like and move on show up?

[uncle bernard]

25 minutes ago, jross said:

It is sad that word games (euphemisms) are necessary to help people tolerate their personal decision to end an innocent life.  That's not a baby, its a fetus.  It's not a fetus, its a clump of cells.  It's not alive.  That's not deliberate murder, that's termination of a human life.  No, its a medical procedure.  No, its abortion.  

And then the way to get everyone to agree is to focus on the extremes... as if the majority wants the mother to die at the cost of her newborn.  Those fascists want you to die!  The don't believe in personal autonomy.

Lies.

Deceiving themself; too cowardly to face the truth of their decision.

Too self-indulgent to care about the new life they created.

The machine has been in the business of destroying the family for 100 years and counting.

These young mothers probably can't even make their bed, how are they going to raise a child?

Yeah, that's why they might choose an abortion.

Btw 60% of women who get abortions in this country already have a child. They aren't foregoing having children. They can't afford to support the larger family.

Nearly half are married or live with their partner. Lots of people choose the nuclear family *and* abortion.

Edited June 11 by uncle bernard

[jross]

5 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

So you want the government to enforce limitations on free speech in the public square? Is that not "Big Government?"

What gave you the impression I want the government to enforce limitation on free speech in the public square?

I would ask the companies and celebrators to be considerate of those they share the square with.  Cut back on the public nudity and sex innuendos around people (and children) with the the same right to share the square.  We shouldn't need the government to enforce common sense.  Just stop talking about sexuality at all in public places with folks that don't want it.  If 7% of the US pop is LGBT... we don't need to make a big deal out of Jane and Jill on TV, shopping sections, and everywhere else in a way that is overdone and unnecessary.

[jross]

16 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

No. Why would it? Just from a household income standpoint, that makes raising a child much, much easier.

That was not written to you, rather the 'winger' slinging Red Viking.

[uncle bernard]

1 minute ago, jross said:

What gave you the impression I want the government to enforce limitation on free speech in the public square?

I would ask the companies and celebrators to be considerate of those they share the square with.  Cut back on the public nudity and sex innuendos around people (and children) with the the same right to share the square.  We shouldn't need the government to enforce common sense.  Just stop talking about sexuality at all in public places with folks that don't want it.  If 7% of the US pop is LGBT... we don't need to make a big deal out of Jane and Jill on TV, shopping sections, and everywhere else in a way that is overdone and unnecessary.

Should Christians be expected to hide their cross necklaces and bible verse t-shirts to avoid offending non-believers? Should Trump supporters take off their MAGA hats to avoid offending democrats?

Or maybe we can all be adults and understand we live in a free country with people who live life differently than us and they have every right to do so.

Also, not sure what kind of media you're consuming, but I've never experienced public nudity from gay people. If there is an event somewhere where that's the expectation, maybe it's the parents' personal responsibility to not bring their kids?

As for sexual innuendo, this is what fast food commercials used to be like. Our culture is far less sexual than it used to be. 

 

[uncle bernard]

2 hours ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Pretty much won't be able to take you seriously anymore when you preach to the whole board about personal responsibility.

"I'm Mr. Personal Responsibility. It's the most important thing in the whole world. Also, the public square should be tailored to my beliefs so I never have to see anything I don't support."

[jross]

18 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

You complain about the downturn in the nuclear family, but I think you'd call any sort of public aid program that incentivizes children and makes them easier to raise "Big Government."

You would be surprised at how much I would support family development, education, and needed support... including government services that goes against limited government preference.

[jross]

17 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

"I'm Mr. Personal Responsibility. It's the most important thing in the whole world. Also, the public square should be tailored to my beliefs so I never have to see anything I don't support."

When I asked a penny for your thoughts, I didn’t expect to get change back.

You are a dunderhead that doesn't understand the golden rule applies to the public square.

[jross]

32 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

Should Christians be expected to hide their cross necklaces and bible verse t-shirts to avoid offending non-believers? Should Trump supporters take off their MAGA hats to avoid offending democrats?

Or maybe we can all be adults and understand we live in a free country with people who live life differently than us and they have every right to do so.

Also, not sure what kind of media you're consuming, but I've never experienced public nudity from gay people. If there is an event somewhere where that's the expectation, maybe it's the parents' personal responsibility to not bring their kids?

As for sexual innuendo, this is what fast food commercials used to be like. Our culture is far less sexual than it used to be. 

 

Dunderhead.

 

 

Quote

 

Originally Answered: Why are LGBT+ pride parades so sexually charged?

As a gay person myself, I have often wondered this. It just gives fuel to bigoted people who want to label us as “perverts” or “deviants”. There’s no need to parade through public streets, where kids can see you, wearing nothing but jock straps and/or thongs (or sometimes even nothing at all). Much as I may enjoy seeing it..

I’m all for gay rights/pride events, but I feel that many of them are way too sexualized. We need to be sending a message that we’re average people just like everyone else, not weirdos that feel the need to parade through public streets in our underwear.

 

 

[uncle bernard]

4 hours ago, jross said:

When I asked a penny for your thoughts, I didn’t expect to get change back.

You are a dunderhead that doesn't understand the golden rule applies to the public square.

You can ask people to suppress their identities to make you comfortable as long as you are willing to do the same for them. No displays or talking of religion or conservative politics in public. That’s the golden rule. 

You follow that to its conclusion, it means no expressing anything at all in public lest you might offend someone.

The rational application of the golden rule to the public square is if you don’t want people to judge how you live, don’t judge them. move on. seeing gay people on tv isn’t going to kill you.

 

[uncle bernard]

4 hours ago, jross said:

 

Dunderhead.

 

 

 

The obvious solution to this is if you don’t want to see “sexualized” behavior at a Pride parade, don’t go to a Pride parade. 

Have you ever even been to one? Or do you just see conservative pundits complaining about them on the internet?

[jross]

1 hour ago, uncle bernard said:

The obvious solution to this is if you don’t want to see “sexualized” behavior at a Pride parade, don’t go to a Pride parade. 

Have you ever even been to one? Or do you just see conservative pundits complaining about them on the internet?

I have not been specifically to a pride parade, but I have stumbled onto public drag shows, been handed porn pamphlets in the streets, seen it first hand at St. Patrick's day and Mardi Gras parades, etc.  Sometimes I had expected it, and sometimes not.  Most songs with a good beat have uncomfortable lyrics.  I don't always have control over the radio...  The obvious solution to this is to wear ear plugs.  Smirk.  I get more than bargained for when searching for a C String (engineering).  The obvious solution is to avoid web searching technical terms.  Smirk.

[JimmyBT]

9 hours ago, red viking said:

Almost 100% of abortions are single-family households (unless they are being done for medical reasons) so saying that abortion is being chosen "over" traditional family values is complete nonsense. 

You're free to have your own traditional family. Nobody is trying to stop you, so maybe the 'wingers should concentrate on their own relationships instead of trying to pick apart alternative ones. 

Should tell you alot about why a father in the family matters. 

[jross]

1 hour ago, uncle bernard said:

You can ask people to suppress their identities to make you comfortable as long as you are willing to do the same for them. No displays or talking of religion or conservative politics in public. That’s the golden rule. 

You follow that to its conclusion, it means no expressing anything at all in public lest you might offend someone.

The rational application of the golden rule to the public square is if you don’t want people to judge how you live, don’t judge them. move on. seeing gay people on tv isn’t going to kill you.

It's about common sense. You don't yell "fire" in a movie theater. You don't yell "active shooter" at a concert. You don't wear insensitive clothing to formal events. You don't use offensive language in a church. You don't make a lot of noise in the library. You don't play loud music in your apartment at 2 AM. You don't wear attire (religious or otherwise) that clashes with local customs.  

I don't mind how people live their lives until it affects me and my family. Seeing gay people on TV doesn't bother me. But seeing what seems like an *excessive number of specific characters as part of a specific agenda does. 

Edited June 12 by jross

[jross]

10 minutes ago, jross said:

I don't mind how people live their lives until it affects me and my family. Seeing gay people on TV doesn't bother me. But seeing what seems like an *excessive number of specific characters as part of a specific agenda does. 

I'm not imagining things.

Per Gallup, between 5.1 and 7.6% of USA citizens are LGTBQ+.  However According to GLAAD's 17th annual Where We Are on TV report, out of the 775 series-regular characters on the 2021-2022 prime-time slate, 92 — or, 11.9 percent — of them are LGBTQ.  That is up from 3.9% in 2015.  https://ew.com/tv/glaad-reports-record-high-lgbtq-tv-characters/

But why?  Activism.

[Wrestleknownothing]

1 hour ago, jross said:

You don't use offensive language in a church. 

Trump and his supporters in a Phoenix mega church in front of these beautiful children.

 

 

[RockLobster]

2 hours ago, jross said:

It's about common sense. You don't yell "fire" in a movie theater. You don't yell "active shooter" at a concert. You don't wear insensitive clothing to formal events. You don't use offensive language in a church. You don't make a lot of noise in the library. You don't play loud music in your apartment at 2 AM. You don't wear attire (religious or otherwise) that clashes with local customs.  

I don't mind how people live their lives until it affects me and my family. Seeing gay people on TV doesn't bother me. But seeing what seems like an *excessive number of specific characters as part of a specific agenda does. 

It appears your time in China has significantly molded you.

Meh. That is no surprise.

[RockLobster]

3 hours ago, jross said:

I'm not imagining things.

Per Gallup, between 5.1 and 7.6% of USA citizens are LGTBQ+.  However According to GLAAD's 17th annual Where We Are on TV report, out of the 775 series-regular characters on the 2021-2022 prime-time slate, 92 — or, 11.9 percent — of them are LGBTQ.  That is up from 3.9% in 2015.  https://ew.com/tv/glaad-reports-record-high-lgbtq-tv-characters/

But why?  Activism.

First - you replied to your own post (look above), which is kind of weird in the US.

We get it, you have the Chinese opinion on gay Americans. Which is that it is unacceptable.

Being gay is OK. You better hide in the basement if you think activism will make you gay. Or maybe in a closet.

Or maybe, just maybe, activism will bring the discussion to a higher level where we realize being gay is OK.