Who are the top 5 D1 College HWTS of all time?

[Jason Bryant]

22 hours ago, PortaJohn said:

That skinny punk was a junior gold medalist in Greco and Freestyle.  Set a NCAA record of 122 consecutive wins and has a win over Kurt Angle

That’s incorrect. His win streak was snapped with a tie (which no longer exists) but he has an unbeaten streak, not a win streak. I can’t tell you exactly what his win streak was at the moment, since I don’t believe a published report of all his matches exist. I may reach out to UPJ to answer this question, since he’s got to have two considerably long win streaks on either side of that tie. 

And much to my displeasure, the term pinfall did exist in the record books and rule books prior to WWII and maybe as “recently” as the 1950s. I don’t dispute its former usage, it’s just not an applicable or accurate term in the more modern era of college wrestling (post-Gable era as some call it)

 

[NM1965]

16 hours ago, Hammerlock3 said:

this topic is also committing the heretical omission of ignoring the idea Ferrari goes HWY in the future, in which case he slots in at 4 at the lowest.

I can't stand Ferrari, but I think he'd easily make AA at HWT. He's probably stronger than most of the HWTs, too. 

[NM1965]

15 hours ago, Hammerlock3 said:

well at least one person seems to agree.

But moving forward, you think greatest is the person, who in their prime, could beat anyone else in their prime? I presume that's your criteria? I'm being logical so I won't rush ahead before we know what we're talking about.

Yeah, that's pretty much it, Hammerlock. I think Gable at his best was the best college HWT I've seen. By that criteria I suppose a guy could qualify as the greatest with just 1 title. I realize most of these guys are going by how many NCAA titles and AA finishes guys have, which is understandable. 

[TexRef]

Mike McCready UNI 

In 1972 Mike won the Division II National Championship and then followed that up with a third place finish in the Division I field (his only loss coming in the semi-finals to Iowa State’s Chris Taylor). Not a “one-sport athlete”, McCready also won a national shot put title and is still the only two-sport All American at UNI. 

15 Freestyle/Greco Roman National titles

1975 Pan Am Gold Medalist

1973, ’75, ’76 World Cup Silver Medalist

1976 Olympic Trials Champion

Glen Brand Wrestling Hall of Fame

Division III Coaches Hall of Fame

UNI Hall of Fame for wrestling and track

Division II Hall of Fame

Upper Iowa Hall of Fame

[Hammerlock3]

7 minutes ago, NM1965 said:

Yeah, that's pretty much it, Hammerlock. I think Gable at his best was the best college HWT I've seen. By that criteria I suppose a guy could qualify as the greatest with just 1 title. I realize most of these guys are going by how many NCAA titles and AA finishes guys have, which is understandable. 

Well my thoughts on that are that I don't think you can sustain a conversation very well with that standard. For one thing sense styles makes match ups that person might not actually exist. But also there is a bit of a problem in that I could just say, "Stephen Neal takes Gable on their best day", and there isn't a great response for that. I also get you can't go solely on credentials, because thats a non-staeter in terms of conversation also.

So all that said I think the purpose/intrigue of the conversation is the negotiation of those factors, and I take the lack of a third title pretty seriously. However, two things I hadn't thought of when I objected, A) there are very few 3 time HWY champs right? Snyder (who unlike neal doesn't match up with steveson very well), Haselrig....so being a two timer in three tries isn't that problematic B) The field steveson was competing against was the best groups of HWYs ever...only reason its not remember more broadly is he was running the show so thoroughly you had to remind yourself. So maybe he is the best.

[Wrestleknownothing]

2 hours ago, Jason Bryant said:

That’s incorrect. His win streak was snapped with a tie (which no longer exists) but he has an unbeaten streak, not a win streak. I can’t tell you exactly what his win streak was at the moment, since I don’t believe a published report of all his matches exist. I may reach out to UPJ to answer this question, since he’s got to have two considerably long win streaks on either side of that tie. 

And much to my displeasure, the term pinfall did exist in the record books and rule books prior to WWII and maybe as “recently” as the 1950s. I don’t dispute its former usage, it’s just not an applicable or accurate term in the more modern era of college wrestling (post-Gable era as some call it)

 

Give me a P...

Give me an I...

Give me an N...

Give me a space...

Give me an F.........

[Jason Bryant]

Just got off the horn with Pat Pecora - we figured it out based on dates and times with the schedule. Haselrig won 71 in a row before the tie against Greenlee at the All-Star Classic. His only two losses in his career were his freshman year to Dean Hall of Edinboro, once at the regional and once in the semis of the D2 championships. 

Pat also broke out the schedule - they wrestled 8-9 duals against D1 schools in that era and a number of opens with D1 squads, so while they were a D2 school, his schedule was very D1 heavy (no pun intended). 

[jchapman]

3 minutes ago, Jason Bryant said:

Just got off the horn with Pat Pecora - we figured it out based on dates and times with the schedule. Haselrig won 71 in a row before the tie against Greenlee at the All-Star Classic. His only two losses in his career were his freshman year to Dean Hall of Edinboro, once at the regional and once in the semis of the D2 championships. 

Pat also broke out the schedule - they wrestled 8-9 duals against D1 schools in that era and a number of opens with D1 squads, so while they were a D2 school, his schedule was very D1 heavy (no pun intended). 

So is that tie officially on his record?  Was the All-Star Classic an exhibition at that time?

[Wrestleknownothing]

3 minutes ago, Jason Bryant said:

Just got off the horn with Pat Pecora - we figured it out based on dates and times with the schedule. Haselrig won 71 in a row before the tie against Greenlee at the All-Star Classic. His only two losses in his career were his freshman year to Dean Hall of Edinboro, once at the regional and once in the semis of the D2 championships. 

Pat also broke out the schedule - they wrestled 8-9 duals against D1 schools in that era and a number of opens with D1 squads, so while they were a D2 school, his schedule was very D1 heavy (no pun intended). 

That is some topnotch work.

[Jason Bryant]

2 minutes ago, jchapman said:

So is that tie officially on his record?  Was the All-Star Classic an exhibition at that time?

All-Star counted at the time. It doesn't count now, I think it stopped counting in the early 2000s. 

Also, that 8-9 duals was PER YEAR on UPJ's schedule, not total. 

Edited May 31 by Jason Bryant

[11986]

them Greenlee's from UNI always messing things up. The one glitch in Haselrig's 122 match run and the only loss for McCoy in 132 matches at heavyweight. 

[Iwrite]

After attending 47 NCAA tournaments, I rate Lou Banach as one of the best I ever saw, when it counted most. Lou went 1-3-1 in his three NCAAs with an overall tournament record of 15-1. Competing at about 215, he was outweighed in every NCAA  match but one. He pinned Bruce Baumgartner in the finals as a sophomore, pinned 400-pound Tab Thacker his junior year when he took third while battling a shoulder injury, and defeated 395-pound MItch Shelton his senior year then pinned tough Wayne Cole of Iowa State in the finals. Lou also pinned four-time AA Steve "Dr. Death" Williams in a dual while being outweighed by about 50 pounds. Lou then won a gold medal in the 1984 Olympcis at 220.

 

 

[NormMacDonald]

23 hours ago, ionel said:

So we are going with the shoulda now?  In that case Hutton shoulda been a 4x undefeated NC if not for a tie match in finals his Jr year and a silly referee decision.  If that'd been the case we'd never have been talking about that Cael guy.  

It’s not that serious man 

[ionel]

9 minutes ago, NormMacDonald said:

It’s not that serious man 

but it should/could be

[Wrestleknownothing]

17 minutes ago, Iwrite said:

After attending 47 NCAA tournaments, I rate Lou Banach as one of the best I ever saw, when it counted most. Lou went 1-3-1 in his three NCAAs with an overall tournament record of 15-1. Competing at about 215, he was outweighed in every NCAA  match but one. He pinned Bruce Baumgartner in the finals as a sophomore, pinned 400-pound Tab Thacker his junior year when he took third while battling a shoulder injury, and defeated 395-pound MItch Shelton his senior year then pinned tough Wayne Cole of Iowa State in the finals. Lou also pinned four-time AA Steve "Dr. Death" Williams in a dual while being outweighed by about 50 pounds. Lou then won a gold medal in the 1984 Olympcis at 220.

 

 

You don't get this level of context when you just look at results like I do. This is great.

[MadMardigain]

Gonna throw in an old school name from the Pre-WWII era. Charlie McDaniel was a 2x Champ, 1x Runner Up, and a member of the Olympic team during his college time. 

[11986]

2 hours ago, Iwrite said:

After attending 47 NCAA tournaments, I rate Lou Banach as one of the best I ever saw, when it counted most. Lou went 1-3-1 in his three NCAAs with an overall tournament record of 15-1. Competing at about 215, he was outweighed in every NCAA  match but one. He pinned Bruce Baumgartner in the finals as a sophomore, pinned 400-pound Tab Thacker his junior year when he took third while battling a shoulder injury, and defeated 395-pound MItch Shelton his senior year then pinned tough Wayne Cole of Iowa State in the finals. Lou also pinned four-time AA Steve "Dr. Death" Williams in a dual while being outweighed by about 50 pounds. Lou then won a gold medal in the 1984 Olympcis at 220.

 

 

Iirc correctly Shelton pinned him in dual his senior year but then LOU shut him down at NCAA. Banach bros were great and very entertaining. 

[Iwrite]

11986 -- Yes,that is correct. I was there covering the meet for the Cedar Rapids Gazette. Lou rushed right out and tried a body lock; his left knee buckled and he went straight to his back and was pinned.  A little overzealous. He couldn't wait for the rematch at the NCAA and used a ltitle more strategy, winning a 3-1 win.

[NormMacDonald]

On 5/31/2024 at 7:06 PM, ionel said:

but it should/could be

Look. All I know is that Kurt won an Olympic gold medal with a broken freakin neck and then morphed into percangle. Best ever.