Will he be found guilty? Will he be Acquitted (not guilty)? Will there be a hung jury?

[Offthemat]

1 minute ago, ionel said:

Is there anybody in the country who doesn't know who Trump is?  Does he need to campaign?  Is just knowing that Dem's heads will explode enough for many to vote for him, even besides the anti Biden vote and that whole lesser of two weasels thing?

You don’t think the 100k rally in New Jersey or the smaller one in the Bronx gained him a few votes?

[NM1965]

18 minutes ago, mspart said:

I would like to believe you.   But my eyes tell me a different story.   The legal system is being used to damage a political enemy.  DOJ did not go after Trump for these charges.   Alvin Bragg ran his campaign to get Trump no matter what.  He was not willing to do this either at the beginning, nor was his predecessor.   But he finally did bring this case just in time to run right into the election.   I would like to believe you but my eyes tell me a different story.   I would like the criminal justice system to be blind.   But it is apparent it is not.  That's why the vague charges.   The inability for the parties to give jury instructions regarding the allegations that made any sense. 

https://news.syr.edu/blog/2024/04/16/pitch-legal-analysis-of-hush-money-trial-facing-former-president-donald-trump/

District Attorney Bragg’s indictment charges Trump with 34 felony counts, each of which relates to a business record disguising a payment made to Cohen as attorney fees.  The indictment alleges that Trump disguised the payments with intent to cover up another crime.  But the indictment does not say what that other crime is.

...  I believe the District Attorney must show (1) that the payments were disguised as attorney fees to commit a fraud on someone, (2) that the underlying payments constituted an independent crime, (3) that Trump knew that the underlying payments constituted a crime, and (4) that the reason he covered up the payments was to disguise that crime.  Those are going to be hard things to prove.

Judge Merchan’s summary of the case for the jury glosses over all of these difficult statutory questions.  After being unable to get the parties to agree on the language of a statement to be read to the jurors to describe what the case is about, Judge Merchan decided to read the following statement to the jurors to summarize the case:

“The allegations reflect in substance, that Donald Trump falsified business records to conceal an agreement with others to unlawfully influence the 2016 presidential election. Specifically, it is alleged that Donald Trump made or caused false business records to hide the true nature of payments made to Michael Cohen, by characterizing them as payment for legal services rendered pursuant to a retainer agreement. The People allege that in fact, the payments were intended to reimburse Michael Cohen for money he paid to Stephanie Clifford, also known as Stormy Daniels, in the weeks before the presidential election to prevent her from publicly revealing details about a past sexual encounter with Donald Trump.”

Judge Juan Merchan’s statement fails to explain when it is a crime to “unlawfully influence” an election?  Obviously, all politicians attempt to influence voters to vote for them.  Politicians regularly misstate facts and fail to disclose facts during their campaign.  The law has never allowed members of the public or the government to bring claims for fraud against politicians who make misleading or even downright false statements; indeed our laws broadly protect campaign speech under the First Amendment.

The judge could not even clearly state the issue and left out very important things like when is the allegation represent a crime to unlawfully influence an election.   But I don't need to justify myself to you.   You won't buy it.   But I would like to believe what you say about the justice system, I am just not seeing it.   You have DA's like Bragg that don't prosecute crimes (we had/have that here is Seattle), and allow criminals on the street to keep stealing and assaulting.  We have too many examples of this.   We have examples of Hillary and Joe with similar crimes to Trump not getting prosecuted but Trump is with tampered and placed evidence which is the subject of hearing in that court right now.   Selective prosecution is a thing and it is being done all over the country, but to have 4 cases against Trump during the election is manifestly political in nature.   You may not see it but I do.   And I don't even like him.  I wanted DeSantis for President.   But this is eggregious in nature.   The system has been corrupted to go after political enemies and the press does not call it out even though it is plain to see.   I want the justice system to be fair and impartial but that is not what I see happening. 

mspart

 

 

The legal system is NOT being used to "damage a political enemy". Trump committed crimes and he's going to trial for them. I like you Art, but you have clearly been brainwashing yourself with rightwing media, which amazes me after Fox lost so many millions of bucks for lying about the 2020 election. Also since when did Hillary and Biden pay off porn stars for political gain? When has either staged an insurrection because they weren't "man enough" to admit they lost? When has either showed foreign nationals top secret classified information they stole? There is no comparison between them and you know it. 

[ionel]

Just now, Offthemat said:

You don’t think the 100k rally in New Jersey or the smaller one in the Bronx gained him a few votes?

I think people who are gonna vote for him showed up.  Maybe the trials got people to rally and gaining votes? 

[NM1965]

2 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

You don’t think the 100k rally in New Jersey or the smaller one in the Bronx gained him a few votes?

LOL....100k. Yup, look at them...sure looks like 100k, huh? But then again, nobody ever accused Trump of knowing how to count. 

 

[Paul158]

13 minutes ago, ionel said:

"cange" is what happens when you are at an outdoor pizza place in brigt sun light typing on a tony mart phone keeboard. 

I was going to a service call and my office text me that the key to get into the house is on the left side of the garage underneath the broad. I text him back and asked him to reread his text message.

[NM1965]

22 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

That’s another point being brought up.  They could keep Trump off the campaign trail for eight more weeks. 

Big deal. Everybody has made up their minds already. Trump is just upset because it cuts his grifting schedule down by 2 months. He can shill more crap to his cultists after the trial. 

[ionel]

7 minutes ago, NM1965 said:

 Trump committed crimes and he's going to trial for them. 

Thought Trump was accused of committing crimes but innocent until proven guilty.  If we know he committed then no reason for trial just go straight to jail correct?

[mspart]

13 minutes ago, NM1965 said:

The legal system is NOT being used to "damage a political enemy". Trump committed crimes and he's going to trial for them. I like you Art, but you have clearly been brainwashing yourself with rightwing media, which amazes me after Fox lost so many millions of bucks for lying about the 2020 election. Also since when did Hillary and Biden pay off porn stars for political gain? When has either staged an insurrection because they weren't "man enough" to admit they lost? When has either showed foreign nationals top secret classified information they stole? There is no comparison between them and you know it. 

I'm glad you like me.   I guess we will have to agree to disagree. 

mspart

[NM1965]

7 minutes ago, ionel said:

Thought Trump was accused of committing crimes but innocent until proven guilty.  If we know he committed then no reason for trial just go straight to jail correct?

The Constitution that Trump has openly stated on multiple occasions should be scrapped is what grants him a trial instead of immediate prosecution. 

[NM1965]

4 minutes ago, mspart said:

I'm glad you like me.   I guess we will have to agree to disagree. 

mspart

Yeah. 

[Offthemat]

15 minutes ago, NM1965 said:

LOL....100k. Yup, look at them...sure looks like 100k, huh? But then again, nobody ever accused Trump of knowing how to count. 

 

New Jersey rally was at an amusement park.  Where’s the rides?  Where’d you get this picture?  

[NM1965]

Just now, Offthemat said:

New Jersey rally was at an amusement park.  Where’s the rides?  Where’d you get this picture?  

Google

[Offthemat]

1 minute ago, NM1965 said:

Google

Try “brain.”

[NM1965]

1 minute ago, Offthemat said:

Try “brain.”

My bad. That was Trump's "25,000 people" Bronx rally. Wow, sure looks like 25,000 people, huh? But then again, nobody ever accused Trump of knowing how to count. 

It's from one of the rags that actually supports Trump, the NY Post. 

[ionel]

16 minutes ago, NM1965 said:

The Constitution that Trump has openly stated on multiple occasions should be scrapped is what grants him a trial instead of immediate prosecution. 

Reference and quote? 

[Bigbrog]

@VakAttack @WrestlingRasta @NM1965  You all don't realize you are arguing for my point which I have stated many times...you can't say it isn't political and then blame the R's for making it political.  You are mixing up two distinct things here...my personal feelings on Trump and the validity of him being guilty if the jury finds him that way...I'll repeat, if he is guilty then he should be found guilty by the jury.  There, that is one topic off the table...I am in complete agreement with you all that he should pay the price if he did the crime...as I feel anyone should.  

The other topic of this being political and the justice system being applied unequally...you all are in fact arguing for my point while trying to spin it in your head that I am wrong because you all think I am this huge R...I am not.  Anyway, it doesn't matter if it is an R or an D...it happens on both sides...in this case it is happening to an R...a very big R (Ex President and current R candidate for the next election).  I have never once made any indication of if I think Trump did it or didn't do it, I have never once reiterated what the news media spews, so all those things you try to accuse me of are nothing but ASSumptions and quite frankly weak.

I'll reiterate my points again...one, if Trump did in fact break the law he should pay the prices...that point stands on its own. Point two, currently we are witnessing one of the biggest political applications of justice we have ever seen...knowing that it has and does happen on both sides.  I for one am sort of okay with it really as I think justice should be applied equally...and if justice truly were to be applied equally, I have a feeling A LOT of presidents, current and past, would be in front of judges and juries.

[Paul158]

WE have a verdict!!!!! I'm shocked.

[JimmyBT]

34 minutes ago, NM1965 said:

The Constitution that Trump has openly stated on multiple occasions should be scrapped is what grants him a trial instead of immediate prosecution. 

Making shit up 

[WrestlingRasta]

29 minutes ago, Bigbrog said:

@VakAttack @WrestlingRasta @NM1965  You all don't realize you are arguing for my point which I have stated many times...you can't say it isn't political and then blame the R's for making it political.  You are mixing up two distinct things here...my personal feelings on Trump and the validity of him being guilty if the jury finds him that way...I'll repeat, if he is guilty then he should be found guilty by the jury.  There, that is one topic off the table...I am in complete agreement with you all that he should pay the price if he did the crime...as I feel anyone should.  

The other topic of this being political and the justice system being applied unequally...you all are in fact arguing for my point while trying to spin it in your head that I am wrong because you all think I am this huge R...I am not.  Anyway, it doesn't matter if it is an R or an D...it happens on both sides...in this case it is happening to an R...a very big R (Ex President and current R candidate for the next election).  I have never once made any indication of if I think Trump did it or didn't do it, I have never once reiterated what the news media spews, so all those things you try to accuse me of are nothing but ASSumptions and quite frankly weak.

I'll reiterate my points again...one, if Trump did in fact break the law he should pay the prices...that point stands on its own. Point two, currently we are witnessing one of the biggest political applications of justice we have ever seen...knowing that it has and does happen on both sides.  I for one am sort of okay with it really as I think justice should be applied equally...and if justice truly were to be applied equally, I have a feeling A LOT of presidents, current and past, would be in front of judges and juries.

PS-no, I’m not trying to do anything of that.   I just strongly disagree with you that’s what’s going on here. 

[VakAttack]

Guilty on all counts, apparently.

[NM1965]

36 minutes ago, JimmyBT said:

Making shit up 

Is that right?  Is that all you Trumpers have, sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting "Nyah nyah nyah, I'm not listening"? Trump even posted it on his own propaganda site. I forget, what do they call Americans that want to terminate the Constitution? Oh yeah...traitors. 

https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/03/politics/trump-constitution-truth-social/index.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/04/us/politics/trump-constitution-republicans.html

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/donald-trump-claims-grounds-termination-us-constitution-twitter/

Edited May 30 by NM1965

[NM1965]

41 minutes ago, Paul158 said:

WE have a verdict!!!!! I'm shocked.

Why? Trump is clearly guilty as sin. 

[NM1965]

55 minutes ago, ionel said:

Reference and quote? 

https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/03/politics/trump-constitution-truth-social/index.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/04/us/politics/trump-constitution-republicans.html

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/donald-trump-claims-grounds-termination-us-constitution-twitter/

[JimmyBT]

1 hour ago, NM1965 said:

Is that right?  Is that all you Trumpers have, sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting "Nyah nyah nyah, I'm not listening"? Trump even posted it on his own propaganda site. I forget, what do they call Americans that want to terminate the Constitution? Oh yeah...traitors. 

https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/03/politics/trump-constitution-truth-social/index.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/04/us/politics/trump-constitution-republicans.html

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/donald-trump-claims-grounds-termination-us-constitution-twitter/

ASSume much???? Haven’t voted for Trump.  Yet 

[JimmyBT]

1 hour ago, NM1965 said:

Is that right?  Is that all you Trumpers have, sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting "Nyah nyah nyah, I'm not listening"? Trump even posted it on his own propaganda site. I forget, what do they call Americans that want to terminate the Constitution? Oh yeah...traitors. 

https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/03/politics/trump-constitution-truth-social/index.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/04/us/politics/trump-constitution-republicans.html

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/donald-trump-claims-grounds-termination-us-constitution-twitter/

He didn’t call for termination of the entire constitution like you claim.