Are all the Pro-Palestine, anti Israel protests helping or hurting the Democrats?

[Scouts Honor]

15 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

You're literally supporting a #1A violation! Somebody was arrested and charged for asking a question. How do you not see that?

how do you feel about the whole... 

We will come and get your guns... i note you didn't say anything about that.

[Scouts Honor]

4 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

 

2) Disagree. Following the catastrophe of the world wars, we came together as a civilized world to set down rules of war. Killing the human shields is a violation of those rules. It is a war crime. I believe in the rule of law, even when it's inconvenient. Levelling buildings you think might contain Hamas while you know they for sure contain civilians is a war crime. And it's wrong to portray that as their only option. They have one of the best funded, best equipped militaries in the world. They could be far more precise if they wanted to be. They just don't want to be. And they'll also be pretty open about that if you just listen to them. Hit translate on Hebrew tweets from Israeli politicians and generals. Far different tone than what they say in English for their Western audience.

 

so giving warnings to leave the area... then leveling the building...

is a war crime.

[Scouts Honor]

3 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

didn't see your last post. i responded. 

even *if* she touched one of the cops (which we can't actually see on video), do you think that was a reasonable response from officer farva? can we have some common sense about what constitutes battery or assaulting an officer?

i think it stems from the resistance after he confronts her

but again, the cop went overboard

[Scouts Honor]

in california nothing will happen to her anyway

[Hammerlock3]

3 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

1) Yes you got confused. The video you replied to is of the same guy willie was talking about.

2) Disagree. Following the catastrophe of the world wars, we came together as a civilized world to set down rules of war. Killing the human shields is a violation of those rules. It is a war crime. I believe in the rule of law, even when it's inconvenient. Levelling buildings you think might contain Hamas while you know they for sure contain civilians is a war crime. And it's wrong to portray that as their only option. They have one of the best funded, best equipped militaries in the world. They could be far more precise if they wanted to be. They just don't want to be. And they'll also be pretty open about that if you just listen to them. Hit translate on Hebrew tweets from Israeli politicians and generals. Far different tone than what they say in English for their Western audience.

3) Good. That's one of many reasons I don't support Hamas. Is that your only red line for Israel? Is there a civilian casualty number that you would find unacceptable, for example?

2) Point two, its illegal to use human shields in combat, not to protect yourself from those using them. The idea that israel soldiers should do a lot more room to room fighting to be nicer is a standard no other military on earth has been held to.

3 I hope you'll believe that I could think of a bunch of grisly hypotheticals that would completely undermine israel's war effort, but i think generating it and having you sift through it would be a waste of time, unless you just insist. Proportion in warfare is defined by whether a parties actions are in proportion to their goals(assuming the goals are legitimate). I don't see any evidence that Israel has unjustified goals or is doing anything out of proportion with them. And again, 100% of the civilian casualities are caused by Hamas. You don't have to keep saying that you don't support hamas, its a genocidal terrorist organization and I wouldn't accuse you of supporting them directly.

[Scouts Honor]

lol

 

nancy pelosi says the protests have a Russian tinge

[Hammerlock3]

10 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

didn't see your last post. i responded. 

even *if* she touched one of the cops (which we can't actually see on video), do you think that was a reasonable response from officer farva? can we have some common sense about what constitutes battery or assaulting an officer?

As ugly as the visual is I'm gonna stick up for the officer:

1) Its easy to isolate that image and say the cop is a fascist, but you need to take into account the difficulty of being a police officer in the middle of a riot when you have every reason to assume you and your colleagues are in danger.

2)Every interaction a cop has is potentially lethal because they have a gun which could be taken away from them, they can't allow any physical escalation including a woman who wasn't asking a serious question just harassing a cop by screaming at and then touching him.  

3) Once a cop detains you your in idiot if you don't comply. That woman shouldn't have resisted once she was being detained, and if she was innocent there is every reason to think she'd be acquitted. This is a temporary submission of rights but that's what we have to delegate to police if we expect them to put themselves in danger.

[uncle bernard]

1 hour ago, Hammerlock3 said:

As ugly as the visual is I'm gonna stick up for the officer:

1) Its easy to isolate that image and say the cop is a fascist, but you need to take into account the difficulty of being a police officer in the middle of a riot when you have every reason to assume you and your colleagues are in danger.

2)Every interaction a cop has is potentially lethal because they have a gun which could be taken away from them, they can't allow any physical escalation including a woman who wasn't asking a serious question just harassing a cop by screaming at and then touching him.  

3) Once a cop detains you your in idiot if you don't comply. That woman shouldn't have resisted once she was being detained, and if she was innocent there is every reason to think she'd be acquitted. This is a temporary submission of rights but that's what we have to delegate to police if we expect them to put themselves in danger.

she was an old lady man. don’t debase yourself. 

our police are the most violent in the developed world. it doesn’t have to be like that. we can hold them to a higher standard. slamming an unarmed old lady on the concrete is not acceptable. 

[uncle bernard]

1 hour ago, Hammerlock3 said:

2) Point two, its illegal to use human shields in combat, not to protect yourself from those using them. The idea that israel soldiers should do a lot more room to room fighting to be nicer is a standard no other military on earth has been held to.

3 I hope you'll believe that I could think of a bunch of grisly hypotheticals that would completely undermine israel's war effort, but i think generating it and having you sift through it would be a waste of time, unless you just insist. Proportion in warfare is defined by whether a parties actions are in proportion to their goals(assuming the goals are legitimate). I don't see any evidence that Israel has unjustified goals or is doing anything out of proportion with them. And again, 100% of the civilian casualities are caused by Hamas. You don't have to keep saying that you don't support hamas, its a genocidal terrorist organization and I wouldn't accuse you of supporting them directly.

2) no that’s the standard every country should be held to. and the only reason it’s not is because the US has veto power in the UN and is the global superpower. two wrongs don’t make a right.

and yes, hamas also commits war crimes! but we’re not funding and supporting hamas. i would hope we agree we should hold our allies to a higher standard than a terrorist group. 

i constantly have to say i don’t support hamas, but none of you ever admit that israel has done *anything* wrong in this conflict. so who is the fundamentalist here?

[Scouts Honor]

1 hour ago, uncle bernard said:

she was an old lady man. don’t debase yourself. 

our police are the most violent in the developed world. it doesn’t have to be like that. we can hold them to a higher standard. slamming an unarmed old lady on the concrete is not acceptable. 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/02/india/police-brutality-india-dst-intl-hnk/index.html

[Hammerlock3]

1 hour ago, uncle bernard said:

she was an old lady man. don’t debase yourself. 

our police are the most violent in the developed world. it doesn’t have to be like that. we can hold them to a higher standard. slamming an unarmed old lady on the concrete is not acceptable. 

you have to address what I said not just say "old lady" twice.

[Hammerlock3]

1 hour ago, uncle bernard said:

2) no that’s the standard every country should be held to. and the only reason it’s not is because the US has veto power in the UN and is the global superpower. two wrongs don’t make a right.

and yes, hamas also commits war crimes! but we’re not funding and supporting hamas. i would hope we agree we should hold our allies to a higher standard than a terrorist group. 

i constantly have to say i don’t support hamas, but none of you ever admit that israel has done *anything* wrong in this conflict. so who is the fundamentalist here?

2) By the standards you'd hold them to no moral power could win a war against an immoral one. We do hold our allies to higher standards than terrorist groups. Which is obvious.

3) you're flatly wrong in your last paragraph. Everyone supporting Israel laments the civilian casualties, thank god its not israel thats causing them.

If you don't support israel or hamas, who do you support in this conflict? Innocent civilians? You're not doing anything for them by validating the use of them as human shields. That game iterates extremely poorly.

[Offthemat]

2 hours ago, uncle bernard said:

2) no that’s the standard every country should be held to. and the only reason it’s not is because the US has veto power in the UN and is the global superpower. two wrongs don’t make a right.

and yes, hamas also commits war crimes! but we’re not funding and supporting hamas. i would hope we agree we should hold our allies to a higher standard than a terrorist group. 

i constantly have to say i don’t support hamas, but none of you ever admit that israel has done *anything* wrong in this conflict. so who is the fundamentalist here?

We are, and have been funding Hamas.  There’s little, if any, difference between Palestinian and Hamas.  There are a few muslim countries paying lip service to the war, but other than Iran and their proxies, most silently support Israel.  Not recognizing the college students as funded and led by those same instigators is a bad look.  The old lady in the video looked smarter than that, but alas, she wasn’t. 

[braves121]

1 hour ago, Hammerlock3 said:

2) By the standards you'd hold them to no moral power could win a war against an immoral one. We do hold our allies to higher standards than terrorist groups. Which is obvious.

3) you're flatly wrong in your last paragraph. Everyone supporting Israel laments the civilian casualties, thank god its not israel thats causing them.

If you don't support israel or hamas, who do you support in this conflict? Innocent civilians? You're not doing anything for them by validating the use of them as human shields. That game iterates extremely poorly.

He’s not validating human shields. He saying a country we are allied and supply maybe shouldn’t indiscriminately kill 100 “human shields” to kill one suspected terrorist and we should hold them accountable for when they do. Human shield defense doesn’t clear Israel of killing a majority of press and journalists there and all the other war crimes Israel is committing 

Edited April 26 by braves121

[braves121]

1 hour ago, Hammerlock3 said:

2) By the standards you'd hold them to no moral power could win a war against an immoral one. We do hold our allies to higher standards than terrorist groups. Which is obvious.

3) you're flatly wrong in your last paragraph. Everyone supporting Israel laments the civilian casualties, thank god its not israel thats causing them.

If you don't support israel or hamas, who do you support in this conflict? Innocent civilians? You're not doing anything for them by validating the use of them as human shields. That game iterates extremely poorly.

Not a single person who supports Israel has criticized or held them accountable including you lol 

[braves121]

The thing that I think pro Israel people have a hard time understanding is that when they kill so many civilians like this it’s making it impossible to get rid of Hamas, when these citizens see the state of Israel skill their family members who were not involved in insurgency it is only natural to gain grow closer to that ideology because it is a self fulfilling cycle , we already saw this exact same scenario happen in Iraq and Afghanistan. 

[Scouts Honor]

hey fam, I'm at this lake I just discovered, practicing gratitude and manifesting abundance...

 

same vibe:

[Scouts Honor]

I just noticed the professor old lady just pulled the classic... I'm  above the law

 

she said:

I'm a professor.

 

IE  do you KNOW who I am? 

[Hammerlock3]

41 minutes ago, braves121 said:

Not a single person who supports Israel has criticized or held them accountable including you lol 

ok so your the guy who makes stuff up and then pretends you were laughing at it to add authenticity. cool.

[Hammerlock3]

47 minutes ago, braves121 said:

He’s not validating human shields. He saying a country we are allied and supply maybe shouldn’t indiscriminately kill 100 “human shields” to kill one suspected terrorist and we should hold them accountable for when they do. Human shield defense doesn’t clear Israel of killing a majority of press and journalists there and all the other war crimes Israel is committing 

so you clearly think Israel has to fight wars differently than any other country....hard to think of a justification for this beyond the obvious.

[braves121]

4 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said:

so you clearly think Israel has to fight wars differently than any other country....hard to think of a justification for this beyond the obvious.

No i clearly think that Israel should be held to the same standards and fight wars the same as every other country… not killing innocent civilians 

[Hammerlock3]

21 minutes ago, braves121 said:

No i clearly think that Israel should be held to the same standards and fight wars the same as every other country… not killing innocent civilians 

then you don't know anything about warfare.

[uncle bernard]

2 hours ago, Hammerlock3 said:

2) By the standards you'd hold them to no moral power could win a war against an immoral one. We do hold our allies to higher standards than terrorist groups. Which is obvious.

3) you're flatly wrong in your last paragraph. Everyone supporting Israel laments the civilian casualties, thank god its not israel thats causing them.

If you don't support israel or hamas, who do you support in this conflict? Innocent civilians? You're not doing anything for them by validating the use of them as human shields. That game iterates extremely poorly.

2) so you simply don’t believe in the concept of war crimes? if evil people can do something, that means everyone can? i guess you and bin laden agree about 9/11. the ends always justify the means.

3) i’m sorry the country that does the actual killing of the human shields does bear responsibility. and the human shield argument itself is dubious because there are 2 million people packed into a tiny strip of land. where are they supposed to go? israel’s bombed every “safe zone” it told them to go to.

and anybody who wants to be intellectually honest knows they aren’t trying to avoid civilian casualties. as you all always scream “hamas is in the tunnels!”  yes, and israel knows that. so who do they think they’re killing when they strike residential buildings? civilians. children. all while minimally hurting hamas. because the goal is to destroy Palestine, not just hamas.

hamas is israel’s best friend (which is why they funded them in the first place). as long as they have a bogeyman to point to, they can keep slowly strangling Palestine, expanding illegal settlements until eventually they’ll have ethnically cleansed the whole place.

 

[Hammerlock3]

1 minute ago, uncle bernard said:

2) so you simply don’t believe in the concept of war crimes? if evil people can do something, that means everyone can? i guess you and bin laden agree about 9/11. the ends always justify the means.

3) i’m sorry the country that does the actual killing of the human shields does bear responsibility. and the human shield argument itself is dubious because there are 2 million people packed into a tiny strip of land. where are they supposed to go? israel’s bombed every “safe zone” it told them to go to.

and anybody who wants to be intellectually honest knows they aren’t trying to avoid civilian casualties. as you all always scream “hamas is in the tunnels!”  yes, and israel knows that. so who do they think they’re killing when they strike residential buildings? civilians. children. all while minimally hurting hamas. because the goal is to destroy Palestine, not just hamas.

hamas is israel’s best friend (which is why they funded them in the first place). as long as they have a bogeyman to point to, they can keep slowly strangling Palestine, expanding illegal settlements until eventually they’ll have ethnically cleansed the whole place.

 

i read #2 and stopped. this discussion is not in good faith. Good luck.

[uncle bernard]

24 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said:

then you don't know anything about warfare.

civilians die in war. but that doesn’t mean you can indiscriminately target them.

two years ago our government (correctly) was apoplectic over the Russian invasion and killing of civilians. israel killed more civilians in one month than russia did in 2 years. to be fair to you, maybe you just don’t appreciate the scale of the civilian casualties? to act like this level of casualties was unavoidable is insane. it’s a conscious choice from Israel.