We need a push out rule!!

[Dark Energy]

So much damn backing up to edge and playing the edge at NCAAs. Ridiculous.  Over and over and over again.  Ugly.  
 

Refs subjectivity and inconsistency on this point is not working.  Need more severe incentives to keep guys from doing this.  

[Wrestleknownothing]

Agreed

[Bardamu911]

totally! also baseball's boring, it should be only 2 outs per inning and 5 innings per game. 

[Wrestleknownothing]

Just now, Bardamu911 said:

totally! also baseball's boring, it should be only 2 outs per inning and 5 innings per game. 

Baseball knows it is boring. That is why it made massive rule changes. Wrestling could use that too.

[wrestlingshoe]

18 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Baseball knows it is boring. That is why it made massive rule changes. Wrestling could use that too.

College wrestling knows it's boring. They made big scoring changes for that reason. Could they do more, yes. Funny the push out is being brought up. I remember when that was first implemented In freestyle and many people complained about it. 

[wrestle87]

10 minutes ago, wrestlingshoe said:

College wrestling knows it's boring. They made big scoring changes for that reason. Could they do more, yes. Funny the push out is being brought up. I remember when that was first implemented In freestyle and many people complained about it. 

You are right.  People complained...and then the overall level of wrestling went through the roof.  Eastern bloc wrestlers developed cardio.  Iran made a killing on it.  And India developed a team.  

[wrestlingshoe]

2 hours ago, wrestle87 said:

You are right.  People complained...and then the overall level of wrestling went through the roof.  Eastern bloc wrestlers developed cardio.  Iran made a killing on it.  And India developed a team.  

Yes, the push out rule has been a big improvement.  

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

Iowa still wouldn’t have won a trophy. 

[JuanMogen]

5 hours ago, wrestle87 said:

You are right.  People complained...and then the overall level of wrestling went through the roof.  Eastern bloc wrestlers developed cardio.  Iran made a killing on it.  And India developed a team.  

I hope the comment about cardio and the one about Iran are two completely distinct thoughts. 

[JuanMogen]

6 hours ago, Dark Energy said:

So much damn backing up to edge and playing the edge at NCAAs. Ridiculous.  Over and over and over again.  Ugly.  
 

Refs subjectivity and inconsistency on this point is not working.  Need more severe incentives to keep guys from doing this.  

Trying to get Hidley teched? 

[Dark Energy]

Richie Figs won a title living on that line.  Crazy that the ref let him do that so blatantly.  Many others. Figs isn’t alone.

[Wrestleknownothing]

Even Starocci went there in the last minute to protect a slim lead. 

[Spladle08]

Feel like this is a yearly debate immediately after NCAA's. (I've always been on the side of the pushout rule for Folk it's real real gross how we play the edge, I complained last night and my wife said "So he's cheating, why would you stand on the side to keep anyone from scoring?"..... I was like its not technically cheating but its another reason we need a pushout point)  

Also the second yearly debate comes up right after trials. When a "New to Freestyle" fan, has their favorite wrestler get laced or can't roll directly to their back or loses on criteria.... Freestyle is now dumb and the world should conform to folk.

Finally at the Olympics (Or worlds) when somebody get crunched round 1, the folkstyle fans tuning in for the Olympics will still complain about the scoring BUT........ now there is a glaring conspiracy to have a USA athlete "Travel so far" and "work so hard" only to get one match!
"Forget that, we need full wrestle-backs, because I, as a folkstyle fan, only know that format and we are the greatest country in the world so we must make others conform. Heck Freestyle doesnt even give you time to work. How can a  guy get any mat returns when the other guy just lays there. Thats Stalling if you ask me. That guys just holding center if you want to be honest. Our American guy has faked as least 10 shot attempts and that other guy isn't even moving all that much. I know its 6-1 for the other guy but he has literally 0 shot fakes. ITS BULLSH*T!"

I Italiansized that fake quote, Im becoming a whiz on this here computer. 

 

[JimmyBT]

Is being a wiz an Italian thing? 

[Spladle08]

4 minutes ago, JimmyBT said:

Is being a wiz an Italian thing? 

For real though. The way DC and JB creamed over the new scoring. I feel like next year its going to be 6pt takedowns 10pt nearfall and 3pt pushout

I kid, a bit.
1pt push out would be EVERYTHING. It'd be more of a game-changer than the Heil rule

[ILLINIWrestlingBlog]

I'm all for the push-out. It is a great rule in Freestyle. Love it! Moreover, it would help Folkstyle by removing a lot of the subjectivity plaguing matches right now. Although I think refs are doing a pretty damn good job of it, considering all of the subjectivity inherent in the rule. 

A couple questions, though: First, would there also have to be a rule about grounding?

Second, there was a poster on Twitter that brought up a good point: What about people on bottom trying to escape? After thinking about it, I had to immediately question my support of a push out rule. On bottom, you get to your feet and immediately try to separate your hips by running away. That can often lead to the top guy pushing you, or just following you, out of bounds. 

With a push out rule, the top guy gets a point instead of a potential stall call. 

Escapes are hard enough, in my opinion! Because of that foreseeable consequence, I have amended my support for the push out to only when both wrestlers are in neutral. What else could you do about escapes? Is there another way to get around that issue? 

[Wrestleknownothing]

5 minutes ago, ILLINIWrestlingBlog said:

I'm all for the push-out. It is a great rule in Freestyle. Love it! Moreover, it would help Folkstyle by removing a lot of the subjectivity plaguing matches right now. Although I think refs are doing a pretty damn good job of it, considering all of the subjectivity inherent in the rule. 

A couple questions, though: First, would there also have to be a rule about grounding?

Second, there was a poster on Twitter that brought up a good point: What about people on bottom trying to escape? After thinking about it, I had to immediately question my support of a push out rule. On bottom, you get to your feet and immediately try to separate your hips by running away. That can often lead to the top guy pushing you, or just following you, out of bounds. 

With a push out rule, the top guy gets a point instead of a potential stall call. 

Escapes are hard enough, in my opinion! Because of that foreseeable consequence, I have amended my support for the push out to only when both wrestlers are in neutral. What else could you do about escapes? Is there another way to get around that issue? 

I agree. Only in neutral. But with continuation. A step out should not stop the action if a TD is imminent. Let the action finish and award the step out if no TD ensues.

[ILLINIWrestlingBlog]

3 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

I agree. Only in neutral. But with continuation. A step out should not stop the action if a TD is imminent. Let the action finish and award the step out if no TD ensues.

That's the Freestyle rule, and it is a good one! 

[monkeybanana53]

Agreed, this would encourage more action on the edge and stop wrestlers from going out of bounds to escape a take down. This would also lend more favor for the wrestler controlling the center of the mat more, which just makes sense.

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

Which finals matches would have had a different winner as a result of there being a pushout rule?

[Wrestleknownothing]

Just now, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Which finals matches would have had a different winner as a result of there being a pushout rule?

Possibly 165 and 174

[Wrestleknownothing]

And 133 may have been over much, much, much sooner. Mercifully.

[swoopdown]

I'll swim upstream on this one.  Not a big fan of push out points.  Puts too much emphasis on low skill technique.  I prefer wrestler emphasis and points for real changes in control.  But I'll admit, if it would have been turned on conditionally (no TD in 1st period or automatically in OT), it might have improved a few matches. 

[JuanMogen]

1 hour ago, Spladle08 said:

Feel like this is a yearly debate immediately after NCAA's. (I've always been on the side of the pushout rule for Folk it's real real gross how we play the edge, I complained last night and my wife said "So he's cheating, why would you stand on the side to keep anyone from scoring?"..... I was like its not technically cheating but its another reason we need a pushout point)  

Also the second yearly debate comes up right after trials. When a "New to Freestyle" fan, has their favorite wrestler get laced or can't roll directly to their back or loses on criteria.... Freestyle is now dumb and the world should conform to folk.

Finally at the Olympics (Or worlds) when somebody get crunched round 1, the folkstyle fans tuning in for the Olympics will still complain about the scoring BUT........ now there is a glaring conspiracy to have a USA athlete "Travel so far" and "work so hard" only to get one match!
"Forget that, we need full wrestle-backs, because I, as a folkstyle fan, only know that format and we are the greatest country in the world so we must make others conform. Heck Freestyle doesnt even give you time to work. How can a  guy get any mat returns when the other guy just lays there. Thats Stalling if you ask me. That guys just holding center if you want to be honest. Our American guy has faked as least 10 shot attempts and that other guy isn't even moving all that much. I know its 6-1 for the other guy but he has literally 0 shot fakes. ITS BULLSH*T!"

I Italiansized that fake quote, Im becoming a whiz on this here computer. 

 

Because freestyle is dumb. Not Greco levels of dumb, but halfway there. 

[ionel]

8 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Baseball knows it is boring. That is why it made massive rule changes. Wrestling could use that too.

Baseball is boring so fans have time to drink more beer.  When you see a wrestler playing the outer circle you know there is time to go to the fridge for another beer.  If we had a push out rule beer & snack consumption would take a dive and the economy would crash.  Do we really want the economy to crash?