Border Wars

[VakAttack]

2 minutes ago, mspart said:

Biden is also on record saying he will close the border if the new bill passes IF the border gets overwhelmed.    So why pass a new bill?   Apparently the border is not overwhelmed now.   He could close the border at any time by enforcing current law.   He is being disingenuous.   

mspart

He literally can not.  You and others just saying this over and over again is just false.

Just now, mspart said:

Only in your mind.  Trump had the border under control.   By any measure Biden has the border completely out of control.   So anyone with logic can put 2 and 2 together and figure this out unless they don't want to. 

 mspart

1.  Only for people who don't understand middle school concepts like "correlation doesn't equal causation."

2.  You just saying that Trump had the border under control isn't actually evidence of anything.  Statistically, his policies did almost nothing about illegal immigration, although he did manage to severely cut down on legal immigration.

[mspart]

Just now, VakAttack said:

He literally can not.  You and others just saying this over and over again is just false.

Explain why Biden cannot enforce current immigration law.   

mspart

[VakAttack]

Just now, mspart said:

Explain why Biden cannot enforce current immigration law.   

mspart

Because the current immigration law and system is broken and full of laws that contradict each other, as acknowledged by both parties. You guys pushing on this side of the political equation need to make a decision, should he issue EOs to fix the issue, or should he "enforce existing laws" that none of you know what you're talking about when you say?  Honestly, you all seem to think the immigration code is:

1.  No illegal immigration.

2.  See 1.

 

~Fin.

[mspart]

1 minute ago, VakAttack said:

He literally can not.  You and others just saying this over and over again is just false.

1.  Only for people who don't understand middle school concepts like "correlation doesn't equal causation."

2.  You just saying that Trump had the border under control isn't actually evidence of anything.  Statistically, his policies did almost nothing about illegal immigration, although he did manage to severely cut down on legal immigration.

1.  I understand them.   Why do you think Dem cities and states are screaming about illegal immigration right now?   Correlation does not equal causation unless you can show what changed.   Biden changed the policies and we have an out of control border.   That is causation.    Bad before, worse now.   What changed?   The policy.    ipso facto.

2.  So your argument here is that Trump had worse legal immigration so we should compensate that for worse illegal immigration?    Makes no sense. 

mspart

 

[mspart]

Just now, VakAttack said:

Because the current immigration law and system is broken and full of laws that contradict each other, as acknowledged by both parties. You guys pushing on this side of the political equation need to make a decision, should he issue EOs to fix the issue, or should he "enforce existing laws" that none of you know what you're talking about when you say?  Honestly, you all seem to think the immigration code is:

1.  No illegal immigration.

2.  See 1.

 

~Fin.

So you think current immigration law is too complicated?    Why wasn't it too complicated 4 years ago?   Biden did issue EOs to fix the issue.   He removed Trumps policies.  Now worse border control.   You just can't see the forest for the forest. 

mspart

[VakAttack]

3 minutes ago, mspart said:

1.  I understand them.   Why do you think Dem cities and states are screaming about illegal immigration right now?   Correlation does not equal causation unless you can show what changed.   Biden changed the policies and we have an out of control border.   That is causation.    Bad before, worse now.   What changed?   The policy.    ipso facto.

This is literally the definition of correlation, not causation.

3 minutes ago, mspart said:

2.  So your argument here is that Trump had worse legal immigration so we should compensate that for worse illegal immigration?    Makes no sense. 

mspart

 

No, that wasn't my argument.  You're just making things up.

1 minute ago, mspart said:

So you think current immigration law is too complicated?    Why wasn't it too complicated 4 years ago?   Biden did issue EOs to fix the issue.   He removed Trumps policies.  Now worse border control.   You just can't see the forest for the forest. 

mspart

It's not just me who thinks immigration law is too complicated.  It's anybody who has any idea what they're talking about.  It was too complicated 4 years ago, and 8 years ago, and 16 years ago, etc. etc.  Which is why for all of my adult life (and probably before then, but I wasn't paying attention) both parties keep talking about the immigration system being broken and needing to be fixed, but neither side agreeing on fixes.  The audacity to pretend this is some new issue....

[jross]

21 minutes ago, mspart said:

So anyone with logic can put 2 and 2 together and figure this out unless they don't want to. 

 mspart

Logical conclusions that go against one's belief cause pain.  They don't want pain.

[ThreePointTakedown]

34 minutes ago, mspart said:

Only in your mind.  Trump had the border under control.   By any measure Biden has the border completely out of control.   So anyone with logic can put 2 and 2 together and figure this out unless they don't want to. 

 mspart

Please square that circle? 

[Offthemat]

It wasn’t too complicated for Eisenhower.  Since then there have been lawsuits and judgments that have frayed and frustrated the statutes, but it won’t be contained by people who don’t want to enforce the laws already in place.  Biden and the dims don’t want the border closed.  Neither does the Chamber of Commerce.  It only hurts the lower and middle income folks, so it’s not important to many politicians.  Reagan tried to trade amnesty for border control and all he got was amnesty.  We shouldn’t make that mistake again. 

[ThreePointTakedown]

57 minutes ago, mspart said:

Nope:

https://www.npr.org/2020/09/14/912060869/biden-pledges-to-dismantle-trumps-sweeping-immigration-changes-but-can-he-do-tha

Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden is pledging to dismantle the sweeping changes President Trump has made to the American immigration system, if he wins the White House in November.

mspart

 

So not separating kids from parents. Some of whom(about 1000) still haven't been reunited with family. 

Can't wait to see how you explain that away. Stretch first, don't pull a hammy, don't be a hero. 

[JimmyBT]

2 hours ago, VakAttack said:

Because the law in the area of immigration are incredibly complex, and often contradictory, due to administrations going back and forth.  Part of this current bipartisan negotiation involves (according to the negotiators) streamlining the system.

Great.  And EOs in this area are extremely ineffective, as Trump found out.  The law is too complex, contradictory, and ripe for multiple different challenges, which means nothing happens and the problem just sits there and worsens.  Something passed by Congress and signed into law is MUCH more effective in general and especially in a circumstance like this.

Who would challenge it and why?  

[JimmyBT]

56 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

He literally can not.  You and others just saying this over and over again is just false.

1.  Only for people who don't understand middle school concepts like "correlation doesn't equal causation."

2.  You just saying that Trump had the border under control isn't actually evidence of anything.  Statistically, his policies did almost nothing about illegal immigration, although he did manage to severely cut down on legal immigration.

You would think someone that’s a “lawyer” wouldn’t have to always put people down huh?   Lawyer my ass 

[JimmyBT]

2 hours ago, Husker_Du said:

This  

[JimmyBT]

28 minutes ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

Please square that circle? 

Psycho babble boy is back.  

[JimmyBT]

It is funny how dems are now admitting there’s a problem.  Election coming up 

[VakAttack]

4 minutes ago, JimmyBT said:

Who would challenge it and why?  

Immigrants, immigrations activists, progressives, 

2 minutes ago, JimmyBT said:

You would think someone that’s a “lawyer” wouldn’t have to always put people down huh?   Lawyer my ass 

Yeah, that's what they say.  Lawyers are famously kind and respectful to others and not at all arrogant.

[JimmyBT]

1 minute ago, VakAttack said:

Immigrants, immigrations activists, progressives, 

Yeah, that's what they say.  Lawyers are famously kind and respectful to others and not at all arrogant.

How will they tie it up???  Be specific on timing and for how long.  
 

my lawyer is very respectful and has a clue. 

[mspart]

Some data:   https://cis.org/Report/Estimating-Illegal-Immigrant-Population-Using-Current-Population-Survey

Notice the time line;  From 2016 to Feb 2022 (almost 2 years ago).   Notice that the numbers declined per DHS figures.  And notice the massive drop that occurred just before Biden came into office Jan 2021.   Now notice the rise since Biden came into office.   Make your own conclusions.

mspart

 

 

[VakAttack]

42 minutes ago, mspart said:

Some data:   https://cis.org/Report/Estimating-Illegal-Immigrant-Population-Using-Current-Population-Survey

Notice the time line;  From 2016 to Feb 2022 (almost 2 years ago).   Notice that the numbers declined per DHS figures.  And notice the massive drop that occurred just before Biden came into office Jan 2021.   Now notice the rise since Biden came into office.   Make your own conclusions.

mspart

 

 

You mean how they dropped during the COVID pandemic and then return to similar numbers as before?

[VakAttack]

51 minutes ago, JimmyBT said:

How will they tie it up???  Be specific on timing and for how long.  
 

my lawyer is very respectful and has a clue. 

Respect is earned.

[JimmyBT]

2 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

Respect is earned.

Yep it is.  That’s why my lawyer gives me that respect. 

Edited February 1 by JimmyBT

[VakAttack]

Just now, JimmyBT said:

Yep it is.  That’s why my lawyer gives it to me.  

Or because you pay him.

[Ohio Elite]

10 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

Or because you pay him.

Hey Vak, is this your business card by chance?

[JimmyBT]

12 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

Or because you pay him.

Nope sorry. We’re close friends. Even gives me the family and friends discount out of respect.  I never needed to go see strippers like you must have.  

[VakAttack]

2 minutes ago, JimmyBT said:

Nope sorry. We’re close friends. Even gives me the family and friends discount out of respect.  I never needed to go see strippers like you must have.  

Good come back, dude.