NCAA Dual Team Championship

[Gene Mills Fan]

I love a dual tournament as a fan. This year it's out.

What extra duals do we need to see this year to determine a dual Championship team?

 

I think the only duals that I would like to see that I won't see this year to settle the top 5 would be: PSU/OKST UNI/IOWA  tOSU/UNI  We saw #3/4 Nebraska vs #1 PSU and it wasn't very close.  there is no guarantee that we would see any of these either in a dual championship. 

Just this year please  

[BruceyB]

3 minutes ago, Gene Mills Fan said:

I love a dual tournament as a fan. This year it's out.

What extra duals do we need to see this year to determine a dual Championship team?

 

I think the only duals that I would like to see that I won't see this year to settle the top 5 would be: PSU/OKST UNI/IOWA  tOSU/UNI  We saw #3/4 Nebraska vs #1 PSU and it wasn't very close.  there is no guarantee that we would see any of these either in a dual championship. 

Just this year please  

OKST/PSU is the only meaningful dual that we won't see.

You'd have match-ups that are in the balance at 125, 133, 141, 174, and 285, plus #1 vs #3 at 184, and Barr would be a heavy favorite, but I'd still be interested to see the match between him and Surber.

[fishbane]

11 minutes ago, Gene Mills Fan said:

I love a dual tournament as a fan. This year it's out.

What extra duals do we need to see this year to determine a dual Championship team?

 

I think the only duals that I would like to see that I won't see this year to settle the top 5 would be: PSU/OKST UNI/IOWA  tOSU/UNI  We saw #3/4 Nebraska vs #1 PSU and it wasn't very close.  there is no guarantee that we would see any of these either in a dual championship. 

Just this year please  

Though he's never really given a direct reason why they don't do it, I think this might be why Sanderson did National Duals at ISU and hasn't at PSU.  In the Big Ten PSU wrestles nearly all the top teams anyway.  When the NWCA did the bowl style matchups in 2016 and 2017 they wrestled OSU who was ranked 2nd one year and 3rd the other year.  It was the highest ranked team PSU had not yet wrestled.  He probably sees having a 16 team tournament to at the end possibly get one quality dual that they wouldn't wrestle anyway as a waste of time. All the national title contenders are either in the Big Ten or the Big 12 anyway, but have the two team champs wrestle.

[BruceyB]

5 minutes ago, fishbane said:

Though he's never really given a direct reason why they don't do it, I think this might be why Sanderson did National Duals at ISU and hasn't at PSU.  In the Big Ten PSU wrestles nearly all the top teams anyway.  When the NWCA did the bowl style matchups in 2016 and 2017 they wrestled OSU who was ranked 2nd one year and 3rd the other year.  It was the highest ranked team PSU had not yet wrestled.  He probably sees having a 16 team tournament to at the end possibly get one quality dual that they wouldn't wrestle anyway as a waste of time. All the national title contenders are either in the Big Ten or the Big 12 anyway, but have the two team champs wrestle.

I actually think this is an amazing idea if we aren't going to make any huge changes to the current system. It would essentially be like the old Rosebowl between the Pac10 and Big10. Winning the Rosebowl was a huge deal in the 90s.

But if we're being realistic, right now the real let down is that we don't see PSU and Oklahoma State dual. OKST vs Iowa, Iowa vs Penn State, and OKST vs Penn State are the biggest duals in college wrestling, and we should see them every year.

[fishbane]

5 minutes ago, BruceyB said:

I actually think this is an amazing idea if we aren't going to make any huge changes to the current system. It would essentially be like the old Rosebowl between the Pac10 and Big10. Winning the Rosebowl was a huge deal in the 90s.

But if we're being realistic, right now the real let down is that we don't see PSU and Oklahoma State dual. OKST vs Iowa, Iowa vs Penn State, and OKST vs Penn State are the biggest duals in college wrestling, and we should see them every year.

Yeah I don't know why the NWCA National Duals Championship Series or whatever they called it back in 2016 and 2017 died.  I suspect it was all the other largely irrelevant matchups didn't generate interest.  I think Iowa wrestled Edinboro in it one year and Edinboro were far off their 2015 peak by that point.  Pretty sure Lugo upset Sorenson in that dual.  Had no issues streaming that on Flo which was far different than the OSU-PSU streaming fiasco.  It was pretty much PSU vs OSU both years.  

[VakAttack]

27 minutes ago, fishbane said:

Yeah I don't know why the NWCA National Duals Championship Series or whatever they called it back in 2016 and 2017 died.  I suspect it was all the other largely irrelevant matchups didn't generate interest.  I think Iowa wrestled Edinboro in it one year and Edinboro were far off their 2015 peak by that point.  Pretty sure Lugo upset Sorenson in that dual.  Had no issues streaming that on Flo which was far different than the OSU-PSU streaming fiasco.  It was pretty much PSU vs OSU both years.  

Basically teams, specifically Penn State and Iowa (Iowa most famously because that's where the "oranges" thing originated) refused to wrestle certain teams.

[CHROMEBIRD]

6 hours ago, VakAttack said:

In the end, we're going in circles on this topic (and have been for years).  The question for me has always been, what's a better product for the majority of people to watch and understand and get excited about:  a 3 day tournament with more complicated team scoring, the team champion typically being crowned sometime before the biggest viewership, or a head to head dual with less complicated team scoring, the winner decided right there between two teams?  To me it's an easy call.  And I say that as a person who has been to several NCAA championships and love my time there, and have already booked my flight and tickets for this year!

Agreed. A dual based championship is the most digestible postseason format. Casuals love watching their favorite teams advance through a bracket (or something very similar to it, like college baseball regionals to championship bracket, or soccer's group play to knockout bracket). They're not going to follow the team scoring at the individual NCAA tournament.

I love the current championship format but wouldn't be mad if it was replaced with a dual tournament, which I think would be more exciting AND put much more weight into regular season duals. USAW could then make the US Open the marquee individual national wrestling event.

[CHROMEBIRD]

5 hours ago, PortaJohn said:

It's an individual sport & I think if we wanted to grow the sport it should be marketed more like the UFC, boxing, PGA Golf, etc. 

But NCAA wrestlers rep institutions; MMA fighters, boxers, PGA golfers do not. Or are you saying college wrestling should go completely individual? Selected wrestlers pulled onto a fight card instead of duals & team scoring + all open tournaments? I am trying to imagine that.

[PortaJohn]

12 minutes ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

But NCAA wrestlers rep institutions; MMA fighters, boxers, PGA golfers do not. Or are you saying college wrestling should go completely individual? Selected wrestlers pulled onto a fight card instead of duals & team scoring + all open tournaments? I am trying to imagine that.

My dream scenario would be Wrestling would have two seasons.  Fall Freesytle and Winter Folk.    Have teams compete in  mini tournaments  followed by the conference tournament and then the National Championship.   

[Gene Mills Fan]

Just wondering if next years National Dual Championship is one event for a red shirt or one event for every dual?

You may need to burn a redshirt to win the tournament?

Edited Friday at 04:32 PM by Gene Mills Fan

[CHROMEBIRD]

3 hours ago, Gene Mills Fan said:

Just wondering if next years National Dual Championship is one event for a red shirt or one event for every dual?

You may need to burn a redshirt to win the tournament?

I think the current rule is based on competition dates rather than matches, so it would depend on how many days the athlete competes at national duals

[BruceyB]

4 hours ago, Gene Mills Fan said:

Just wondering if next years National Dual Championship is one event for a red shirt or one event for every dual?

You may need to burn a redshirt to win the tournament?

 

1 hour ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

I think the current rule is based on competition dates rather than matches, so it would depend on how many days the athlete competes at national duals

The current rule is based on events. It doesn't matter if it is one or two days, or if there is a single match or multiple. So this event would be one of the allowed five.