No BS...Is AJ wrestling this year?

[scourge165]

13 minutes ago, flyingcement said:

I'm not sure what the consensus will be, but I would expect Brooks to defeat AJ Ferrari 7 or 8 times out of ten.  If they only face two or three times, Brooks could easily sweep the series.  Primarily because I think Ferrari hasn't shown enough high level offense to compete with someone like Brooks.  

I think you'd have to go with Brooks, but...man, that'd make the weight class so much more interesting.

The length and size vs Brooks could make it the only real matchup that's interesting. 

(That's obviously not to say that Brooks is necessarily "small," for the weight, but he's certainly not a long '97).

[ionel]

6 hours ago, Hammerlock3 said:

if he really is shooting for next year then his social media campaign on the subject is idiotic...

The Ferrari "idiotic" ... shirley not.  

Edited December 29, 2023 by ionel

[Hammerlock3]

12 minutes ago, ionel said:

The Ferrari "idiotic" ... shirley not.  

don't call me shirley

[Le duke]

I think you'd have to go with Brooks, but...man, that'd make the weight class so much more interesting.
The length and size vs Brooks could make it the only real matchup that's interesting. 
(That's obviously not to say that Brooks is necessarily "small," for the weight, but he's certainly not a long '97).

Brooks has SUPER long arms. He wasn’t particularly tall for 184 and will be on the shorter end for 197 but look at how easily he got to Tanner Sloan’s legs at the All-Star. Sloan looked huge compared to Brooks and the height difference didn’t help him at all.


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[scourge165]

9 hours ago, Le duke said:

Brooks has SUPER long arms. He wasn’t particularly tall for 184 and will be on the shorter end for 197 but look at how easily he got to Tanner Sloan’s legs at the All-Star. Sloan looked huge compared to Brooks and the height difference didn’t help him at all.


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Obviously it's not just about being longer/bigger, but when you're talking about Brooks and Ferrari, I think it's a bigger factor. 

I'm also just not impressed with Sloan...relative to Brooks or Ferrari. He's a great Wrestler obviously...a finalist last year, but it's all relative. 

[VakAttack]

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

14 hours ago, Le duke said:

Brooks has SUPER long arms. He wasn’t particularly tall for 184 and will be on the shorter end for 197 but look at how easily he got to Tanner Sloan’s legs at the All-Star. Sloan looked huge compared to Brooks and the height difference didn’t help him at all.


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Here is a side by side comparison of Brooks and AJ.  Note that AJ is at least 2-3" taller than Brooks, who is noticeably shorter than the 165, 174, 197 and HWT champs.

 

Edited December 29, 2023 by Jimmy Cinnabon

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

Brooks is actually about the same height as former 157 pound champ David Carr

 

[BAC]

A couple thoughts.

First, I think Ferrari is crazy to register for the Soldier Salute.  For it to be worth Brands freeing up the coin to give AJ the scholly money he's probably seeking, AJ would need to be *significantly* better than their current options.  And he won't be.  He's been out of competition for a year and a half. If he makes weight at all, he may well lose to Glazier, and even if he wins it won't be by more than a point or two.  Then everyone will rightly say -- dang is it really worth Brands taking on this cancerous loose cannon if he's only a rounding error better than current options?  Normally I'd think his registration was just a ruse -- a teaser to amp up his social media, before he no-shows -- but if that were his game, he'd have registered a week ago, not last-minute, and hyped it up.  Either way, bad move for AJ.  He's going to lose whatever leverage he thought he had.  

Second, even if he DOES take the mat, spare me the "can he beat Brooks?" stuff.  Brooks wins 10 out of 10 against Ferrari.  People are forgetting how weak the 197lb class was the year AJ won it.  He squeaked by Warner 3-2 and nipped Bonnacorsi in the finals.  And now, after 2 years flexing in the mirror while he awaits trial, he's going to knock off one of the best wrestlers in the world at the weight?  Yeah... no.  Brooks picks him apart.  Hidlay is the only legit threat here.

Edited December 29, 2023 by BAC

[ionel]

2 minutes ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Brooks is actually about the same height as former 157 pound champ David Carr

 

Brooks is the same height as RBY, zoom out and you'll see he's standing on a 6" platform, he's short.  

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

4 minutes ago, BAC said:

A couple thoughts.

First, I think Ferrari is crazy to register for the Soldier Salute.  For it to be worth Brands freeing up the coin to give AJ the scholly money he's probably seeking, AJ would need to be *significantly* better than their current options.  And he won't be.  He's been out of competition for a year and a half. If he makes weight at all, he may well lose to Glazier, and even if he wins it won't be by more than a point or two.  Then everyone will rightly say -- dang is it really worth Brands taking on this cancerous loose cannon if he's only a rounding error better than current options?  Normally I'd think his registration was just a ruse -- a teaser to amp up his social media, before he no-shows -- but if that were his game, he'd have registered a week ago, not last-minute, and hyped it up.  Either way, bad move for AJ.  He's going to lose whatever leverage he thought he had.  

Second, even if he DOES take the mat, spare me the "can he beat Brooks?" stuff.  Brooks wins 10 out of 10 against Ferrari.  People are forgetting how weak the 197lb class was the year AJ won it.  He squeaked by Warner 3-2 and nipped Bonnacorsi in the finals.  And now, after 2 years flexing in the mirror while he awaits trial, he's going to knock off one of the best wrestlers in the world at the weight?  Yeah... no.  Brooks picks him apart.  Hidlay is the only legit threat here.

Brands will take AJ because they need the other 2 brothers on the team.  Package deal.

[ionel]

6 minutes ago, BAC said:

A couple thoughts.

First, I think Ferrari is crazy to register for the Soldier Salute.  For it to be worth Brands freeing up the coin to give AJ the scholly money he's probably seeking, AJ would need to be *significantly* better than their current options.  And he won't be.  He's been out of competition for a year and a half. If he makes weight at all, he may well lose to Glazier, and even if he wins it won't be by more than a point or two.  Then everyone will rightly say -- dang is it really worth Brands taking on this cancerous loose cannon if he's only a rounding error better than current options?  Normally I'd think his registration was just a ruse -- a teaser to amp up his social media, before he no-shows -- but if that were his game, he'd have registered a week ago, not last-minute, and hyped it up.  Either way, bad move for AJ.  He's going to lose whatever leverage he thought he had.  

Second, even if he DOES take the mat, spare me the "can he beat Brooks?" stuff.  Brooks wins 10 out of 10 against Ferrari.  People are forgetting how weak the 197lb class was the year AJ won it.  He squeaked by Warner 3-2 and nipped Bonnacorsi in the finals.  And now, after 2 years flexing in the mirror while he awaits trial, he's going to knock off one of the best wrestlers in the world at the weight?  Yeah... no.  Brooks picks him apart.  Hidlay is the only legit threat here.

Look at how AJ won.  It was pretty simple - speed and strength.  He could always get to guys legs and had the strength to finish.  As much as I dont care for him, he's not going to forget the speed and strength game.  

[BAC]

57 minutes ago, ionel said:

Look at how AJ won.  It was pretty simple - speed and strength.  He could always get to guys legs and had the strength to finish.  As much as I dont care for him, he's not going to forget the speed and strength game.  

I agree in part but mostly disagree.  Yes, he has elite strength and speed, but he's never had an elite offense.  It is his defense that's made the difference in close matches.  Keep distance, use his strength/speed to keep opponents at bay, and sneak in for a score.  Lots of 3-1, 4-2 type matches, against Jake Woodley type guys.  Has he ever beaten a top-20 guy by more than 5 points?  I don't think so.

I'm not faulting him for that approach.  It's the best winning formula for him until he learns to diversify and open up his offense.  But it's risky at best against someone with an equally stout defense (e.g. Trent Hidlay), and won't work at all against someone with a dynamic offense. Someone like Brooks.

Remember, a couple weeks after winning NCAAs in 2021, Ferrari entered WTTs, where he promptly lost to Macchiavello, and then Ben Honis.  Brooks, meanwhile, lost only to David Taylor at 2023 WTTs, and convincingly beat Zahid Valencia along the way -- who ended up bumping up a weight and winning a world medal.  These guys just aren't on the same level.  

Maybe AJ's defense would keep him from getting majored by Brooks, but I think a Brooks MD is far more likely than a Ferrari win.  Even at AJ's best I think Hidlay beats him 8-9 times out of 10.

[ionel]

1 minute ago, BAC said:

I agree in part but mostly disagree.  Yes, he has elite strength and speed, but he's never had an elite offense.  It is his defense that's made the difference in close matches.  Keep distance, use his strength/speed to keep opponents at bay, and sneak in for a score.  Lots of 3-1, 4-2 type matches, against Jake Woodley type guys.  Has he ever beaten a top-20 guy by more than 5 points?  I don't think so.

I'm not faulting him for that approach.  It's the best winning formula for him until he learns to diversify and open up his offense.  But it's risky at best against someone with an equally stout defense (e.g. Trent Hidlay), and won't work at all against someone with a dynamic offense. Someone like Brooks.

Remember, a couple weeks after winning NCAAs in 2021, Ferrari entered WTTs, where he promptly lost to Macchiavello, and then Ben Honis.  Brooks, meanwhile, lost only to David Taylor at 2023 WTTs, and convincingly beat Zahid Valencia along the way -- who ended up bumping up a weight and winning a world medal.  These guys just aren't on the same level.  

Maybe AJ's defense would keep him from getting majored by Brooks, but I think a Brooks MD is far more likely than a Ferrari win.  Even at AJ's best I think Hidlay beats him 8-9 times out of 10.

Ok we are talking folkstyle, how many guys have taken him down & how many guys has he failed to take down?

[BAC]

1 hour ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Brands will take AJ because they need the other 2 brothers on the team.  Package deal.

Yeah, that's probably right, but I'm talking more about scholarship money, and whether AJ wrestles right away.  Seems to me the safer route for Brands is to let AJ do what Anthony's doing -- wrestle unattached, see if he behaves, and let him join the team in the fall if all goes well.  AJ may want to compete right away, but I have a hunch his performance this weekend, if he competes at all, is going to weaken that argument.

[Hammerlock3]

Did AJs request for an ethical hardship year go through?

[BAC]

21 minutes ago, ionel said:

Ok we are talking folkstyle, how many guys have taken him down & how many guys has he failed to take down?

Excluding freestyle takedowns sounds like you're cherry-picking, and its an odd question since he hasn't wrestled *anyone* in 2 years.  That means our sample size is mostly 2021, in a weak weight class.  No doubt Ferrari's stats in that modest sample size are excellent. Not sure of the answer and not sure how to look it up, but I'm pretty sure Noah Adams took him down. Also pretty sure he couldn't take down Warner, or Adams either.  How would you rate Warner and Adams against Aaron Brooks?

Look, Ferrari obviously was really good.  He's a 2021 NCAA Champ with only one loss. If he'd stayed out of trouble and improved at the same rate as Brooks from then until now, it'd be a different conversation. But the truth is even in 2021, he was the best of rather unexceptional group, and failed to distinguish himself on the senior level -- and since then, he's almost certainly regressed, while Brooks and others have improved by leaps and bounds. He's a physical specimen, but even if he has the maturity and humility to get back to where he was before (a really big "if"), Brooks has passed him by.

[Hammerlock3]

1 hour ago, ionel said:

Ok we are talking folkstyle, how many guys have taken him down & how many guys has he failed to take down?

BAC makes good points in the above post, but as simple ionel's post is its not simplistic. Ferrari is very evasive, has that weird bells palsy stance, doesn't get tired, is kyle dake difficult to take down (in college), doesn't get ridden, puts on ulgy rides to win matches if he has to....he's a really tough out.

[ionel]

Is he in better shape than Anthony or can he put his opponent away quicker?

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

12 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said:

BAC makes good points in the above post, but as simple ionel's post is its not simplistic. Ferrari is very evasive, has that weird bells palsy stance, doesn't get tired, is kyle dake difficult to take down (in college), doesn't get ridden, puts on ulgy rides to win matches if he has to....he's a really tough out.

With the exception of the "weird stance", all of the above also applies equally to Brooks.

Edited December 29, 2023 by Jimmy Cinnabon

[Hammerlock3]

Just now, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

With the exception of the "weird stance", all of the above also applies equally to Brooks.

No brooks has a weird stance too its just not like he has nerve damage to one side of his body.

In any event if you were trying to insinuate I was claiming ferrari is gonna beat brooks that just nonsense. All I did was imply he has a chance.

[Hammerlock3]

is sloan in Ferraris's bracket at the solider salute thing? says SDSU is there....

checked and no

Edited December 29, 2023 by Hammerlock3

[ionel]

3 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said:

 he has a chance.

[Ohio Elite]

1 minute ago, ionel said:

[Hammerlock3]

1 minute ago, ionel said:

I'll give him 20% in any given match. Whats your number?