is OSU(ok) a desirable place to coach anymore?

[Konquest]

Somewhat related to the original topic, but I think the first thing that comes to mind for a lot of longtime college wrestling fans when you mention Okie State is "cutting weight".  Some guys do well with it, some wash out, but it seems like Smith and Co. are notorious for having blue chippers come in and wrestle at weights lower than they've weighed in high school.  

[TexRef]

1 hour ago, Konquest said:

Somewhat related to the original topic, but I think the first thing that comes to mind for a lot of longtime college wrestling fans when you mention Okie State is "cutting weight".  Some guys do well with it, some wash out, but it seems like Smith and Co. are notorious for having blue chippers come in and wrestle at weights lower than they've weighed in high school.  

That is why TJ Jaworsky left.  

[ionel]

2 hours ago, Konquest said:

Somewhat related to the original topic, but I think the first thing that comes to mind for a lot of longtime college wrestling fans when you mention Okie State is "cutting weight".  Some guys do well with it, some wash out, but it seems like Smith and Co. are notorious for having blue chippers come in and wrestle at weights lower than they've weighed in high school.  

Partially cause recruiting kids in high school who are good enough to win without cutting weight. 

[11986]

2 hours ago, Konquest said:

Somewhat related to the original topic, but I think the first thing that comes to mind for a lot of longtime college wrestling fans when you mention Okie State is "cutting weight".  Some guys do well with it, some wash out, but it seems like Smith and Co. are notorious for having blue chippers come in and wrestle at weights lower than they've weighed in high school.  

 

43 minutes ago, TexRef said:

That is why TJ Jaworsky left.  

did TJ wrestle lower weight at Ok St than in HS? I know he wrestled 119 at Dapper Dan vs future UNC teammate Ty Moore (RIP) and was at 126 while at Ok St. Maybe he dropped for Dapper Dan from whatever he wrestled his senior year in HS. 

 

[Hammerlock3]

3 hours ago, Konquest said:

Somewhat related to the original topic, but I think the first thing that comes to mind for a lot of longtime college wrestling fans when you mention Okie State is "cutting weight".  Some guys do well with it, some wash out, but it seems like Smith and Co. are notorious for having blue chippers come in and wrestle at weights lower than they've weighed in high school.  

its one of the more obvious aspects of the program that seems dated.

[Gus]

1 hour ago, TexRef said:

That is why TJ Jaworsky left.  

Didn't he leave when OKst had the year where they were not allowed to compete at NCAA's due to the rules violations? Pat Smith redshirted that year and I believe that Alan Fried stayed and just lost a year of eligibility. 

[TexRef]

1 hour ago, Gus said:

Didn't he leave when OKst had the year where they were not allowed to compete at NCAA's due to the rules violations? Pat Smith redshirted that year and I believe that Alan Fried stayed and just lost a year of eligibility. 

It was the perfect time to leave. There were issues and John wanted him to cut down to 126 and TJ wanted to be at 134. On his way out, John told him that he would never win at that weight or at any other school! Pat did redshirt that year.  

Edited December 14, 2023 by TexRef
.

[TexRef]

1 hour ago, Hammerlock3 said:

its one of the more obvious aspects of the program that seems dated.

I have heard that was also an issue with Marsteller. 

[ionel]

28 minutes ago, TexRef said:

I have heard that was also an issue with Marsteller. 

Marsteller had the 'munchies.'

[Hammerlock3]

1 hour ago, TexRef said:

I have heard that was also an issue with Marsteller. 

somehow I think their might have been other contributing factors...

[wrestle87]

8 hours ago, 1032004 said:

How would you define a “real murderers row”?

Anything that would legitimately compete for a national title.

[1032004]

14 minutes ago, wrestle87 said:

Anything that would legitimately compete for a national title.

Looking at tournament results, these are the only teams other than PSU that have finished within 30 points of first place:

2023 none

2022 none

2021 Iowa (won)

2019 none

2018 tOSU

2017 none

2016 OSU

2015 tOSU (won), Iowa, Edinboro, Missouri

2014 Minnesota, OSU

2013 OSU, Minnesota

 

So a total of 11 teams in 10 tournaments, 7 outside of the year PSU tanked.   
 

Looks like OSU is the only team that made the list 3 times.

[TexRef]

1 hour ago, Hammerlock3 said:

somehow I think their might have been other contributing factors...

Oh I am not saying that John's weight class "suggestion" was the only thing that was wrong, but it didn't help the situation. Yes, he got the munchies and maybe ordered a few too many pizzas. I find that part odd, because I have always been told that "the pizza is just BETTER up north!" lol

[Hammerlock3]

2 minutes ago, TexRef said:

Oh I am not saying that John's weight class "suggestion" was the only thing that was wrong, but it didn't help the situation. Yes, he got the munchies and maybe ordered a few too many pizzas. I find that part odd, because I have always been told that "the pizza is just BETTER up north!" lol

it is. to be honest I probably push back against the weight cut victim narrative because thats been overcome by a lot of people. 

[TexRef]

1 minute ago, Hammerlock3 said:

it is. to be honest I probably push back against the weight cut victim narrative because thats been overcome by a lot of people. 

Fair enough. 

[Hammerlock3]

3 minutes ago, TexRef said:

Fair enough. 

and the pizza is definitely better up there

[TexRef]

2 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said:

and the pizza is definitely better up there

I was in NY in Oct and the pizza was really good. 

[Hammerlock3]

Just now, TexRef said:

I was in NY in Oct and the pizza was really good. 

grew up in NY.

[TexRef]

7 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said:

grew up in NY.

Right on. I went to the Journeymen Fall Classic. Frank runs a tight ship and it was great as usual. 

[Smsu150]

3 hours ago, TexRef said:

It was the perfect time to leave. There were issues and John wanted him to cut down to 126 and TJ wanted to be at 134. On his way out, John told him that he would never win at that weight or at any other school! Pat did redshirt that year.  

OSU had national champion Tony Purler at 126 lbs.  Purler won the title at 126 for Nebraska, Jaworsky the 134 title at NC. 

[wrestle87]

46 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said:

and the pizza is definitely better up there

Can confirm, from the north, been to other places.  The north has bad tacos no doubt, and mediocre bbq at best, but the pizza, bagels, and delis are very on point. 

[alex1fly]

1 hour ago, Hammerlock3 said:

it is. to be honest I probably push back against the weight cut victim narrative because thats been overcome by a lot of people. 

Yeah what’s with this. Other teams don’t cut weight? Or OSUs weight cuts just get talked about more.

[Hammerlock3]

18 minutes ago, alex1fly said:

Yeah what’s with this. Other teams don’t cut weight? Or OSUs weight cuts just get talked about more.

the incredible amount of wrestling media support marstellar had coming out of high school, even though he didn't wrestle anyone he could have avoided outside of powerade and pa states, is really what annoys me about this. He was so propped up that he got to be the first kid to cut weight. 

that said I admire him very much for overcoming his own demons. 

[wrestle87]

23 hours ago, Hammerlock3 said:

the incredible amount of wrestling media support marstellar had coming out of high school, even though he didn't wrestle anyone he could have avoided outside of powerade and pa states, is really what annoys me about this. He was so propped up that he got to be the first kid to cut weight. 

that said I admire him very much for overcoming his own demons. 

This situation is a major failure on both the side of the athlete, and definitely the coaching staff.  Kids bouncing from programs is a major failure and waste of resources on the part of coaches, and shows underdeveloped analysis and decision-making.  

Understanding who kids are, what they want out of your program, and how they’ll adjust and integrate to your coaching style is a major part of athlete success, especially in one of the few remaining “wrestling is war, wrestling is life, anger and sacrifice are the key to victory” rooms around the country. 

Chance was 171 his senior year IIRC, and and they tried to shoehorn him into 157.  Throwing an extreme cut at a new freshman who is away from a very intense home situation for the first time is a textbook recipe for exactly what happened.  Destroy a kid’s confidence, suck the joy out of life, perfect recipe for a spiral, especially for athletes who use sports to battle or ignore demons. 

If an athlete can leave a place and find success elsewhere, but has to endure potential hardship along the way, some of that gets laid at the feet of the coaching staff, at a bare minimum for not doing sufficient homework on the psychology of their potential recruits.

This is an area that I think is great about NIL.  NIL makes immediate returns tangible, and motivates a level of professional and mental preparation that exceeds that from days of yore.