Is Shapiro hurt?

[Hammerlock3]

  On 12/4/2023 at 2:45 AM, 1032004 said:

Hey, that’s my theory and I’m sticking to it

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where are you on this topic in actuality? 

[Dogbone]

I have enough confidence in the Cornell coaches that they wouldn't risk putting Shapiro in any unnecessary harm this early in his season/career.   If they thought he could "push through" then I suspect it is nothing serious.  

He is a freshman. Sometimes freshman lose matches you wouldn't think they would.

[1032004]

  On 12/4/2023 at 2:51 AM, Hammerlock3 said:

where are you on this topic in actuality? 

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What do you mean?  I have no idea what if anything was impacting him but while it’s obviously just speculation I do legitimately think jet lag could’ve been an issue, considering his matches against Cardenas and Chumbley would have been at 10PM or later eastern time, and Cardenas for one is already living on the west coast.   

If he didn’t dominate Andonian, then I think we could say maybe he’s just not as good at this point as some thought.  But for whatever reason he looked gassed against Cardenas, didn’t appear to be an injury to my untrained eye but who knows.

And fwiw I am not a Cornell fan, if anything I probably dislike them as a team (but don’t have anything against any individual wrestlers).

[1032004]

  On 12/3/2023 at 4:01 PM, BigRedFan said:

He is hurt, possibly from the end of the Andonian match (he received a leg hit to the leg in the final scramble).  Early in his second match, there was a high-speed scramble that ended off camera, followed by the Cornell corner coming over.  The ref then gave the "fist to the forehead" sign indicating concussion protocol, which was not initiated.  It was pretty clear that there was a head issue after that.  Really surprised he was allowed to continue.  I'll be surprised if he goes to the Collegiate Duals in two weeks.

He does not have a conditioning problem, that is clear.

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I’m not seeing a noticeable “leg hit,” but honestly in rewatching the Andonian match he looked gassed there too.  As early as the start of the second period he was employing the “adjust my headgear and kneepad” strategy while being slow to get back to the center (which Pyles acknowledged).

Which match did the ref give the concussion signal?  Wasn’t Andonian his second match?

[Corby]

Meyer hurt his knee at Journeyman against Royster LIU . I remember watching it and he took injury time and finished the tournament. He even talked about in the interview after the tournament on Flo

[Corby]

Match

https://www.flowrestling.org/people/7085173-meyer-shapiro/video?playing=11445896

 

Interview

https://www.flowrestling.org/people/7085173-meyer-shapiro/video?playing=11448909

 

Edited December 4, 2023 by Corby

[Idaho]

Concussions.... leg hits... jet lag.... the flu... How about he's a really good wrestler, who is young and learning and took some losses? He's going to be fine. Probably woke up this morning thinking, "Wow what a relief to get a loss out of the way so those intermat posters can lay off now." 

Some of you might want to get your copy and paste ready when. Messenbrink loses  

[JimmyBT]

He got so much praise on here after beating Andonian that he’s decided to step away from college wrestling and run for President 

[PortaJohn]

  On 12/4/2023 at 2:30 PM, Idaho said:

Concussions.... leg hits... jet lag.... the flu... How about he's a really good wrestler, who is young and learning and took some losses? He's going to be fine. Probably woke up this morning thinking, "Wow what a relief to get a loss out of the way so those intermat posters can lay off now." 

Some of you might want to get your copy and paste ready when. Messenbrink loses  

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I'm not selling my Shapiro/Messenbrink Hype Stock...Two kids with multi titles written all over them.  I do wonder if Shapiro may be a tad bit too small for 157 this year.  U20 70kg(154llbs) is a different frame compared to a 157 pound college wrestler 

[BigRedFan]

  On 12/4/2023 at 12:59 PM, 1032004 said:

I’m not seeing a noticeable “leg hit,” but honestly in rewatching the Andonian match he looked gassed there too.  As early as the start of the second period he was employing the “adjust my headgear and kneepad” strategy while being slow to get back to the center (which Pyles acknowledged).

Which match did the ref give the concussion signal?  Wasn’t Andonian his second match?

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Shapiro *always* does the "adjust the kneepads and singlet" strategy in all his matches, all the time.  I've seen enough of his matches to realize this.  Here's Shapiro a couple of weeks ago, 1:30 into a match against Sacred Heart, doing just that (pretty sure he wasn't already gassed).

So he gassed in a match against Bryce Andonian, in which he gets an early escape in the second period, avoids stalling and giving up a takedown and gets a late second period takedown and rides out, then gets a TD a minute into the third period, gets 2NF, and rides out the rest of the period?  Sounds legit.

The ref gave the concussion signal in Shapiro's second *loss*.  About a minute in, but hey, he was gassing.

[Threadkilla]

  On 12/4/2023 at 2:30 PM, Idaho said:

Concussions.... leg hits... jet lag.... the flu... How about he's a really good wrestler, who is young and learning and took some losses? He's going to be fine. Probably woke up this morning thinking, "Wow what a relief to get a loss out of the way so those intermat posters can lay off now." 

Some of you might want to get your copy and paste ready when. Messenbrink loses  

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 Messenbrink wasn't handed the crown like Shapiro and 165 looks to be deeper than 57.    

[Idaho]

  On 12/4/2023 at 2:43 PM, PortaJohn said:

I'm not selling my Shapiro/Messenbrink Hype Stock...Two kids with multi titles written all over them.  I do wonder if Shapiro may be a tad bit too small for 157 this year.  U20 70kg(154llbs) is a different frame compared to a 157 pound college wrestler 

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I think they will both win titles as well... thats a different narrative than "I'm calling it now, undefeated freshman ncaa champ" beliefs that are scattered on message boards and social media. 

[bnwtwg]

  On 12/4/2023 at 1:10 AM, Threadkilla said:

He won world's in Free, which is not nearly as taxing as folk

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[Idaho]

  On 12/4/2023 at 2:47 PM, Threadkilla said:

 Messenbrink wasn't handed the crown like Shapiro and 165 looks to be deeper than 57.    

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Yes he was. Look around... plenty of people saying he will be a freshman champ.... 4xer.... is Cael's record in jeopardy....etc. 

[Threadkilla]

  On 12/4/2023 at 2:52 PM, Idaho said:

Yes he was. Look around... plenty of people saying he will be a freshman champ.... 4xer.... is Cael's record in jeopardy....etc. 

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With O'Toole and Carr there,   not so much

[PortaJohn]

  On 12/4/2023 at 2:50 PM, Idaho said:

I think they will both win titles as well... thats a different narrative than "I'm calling it now, undefeated freshman ncaa champ" beliefs that are scattered on message boards and social media. 

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I never was on the Messenbrink will win 4 titles bandwagon but I was certainly on the Shapiro one.  I probably posted after last years NCAA's that he'd win 4 titles and be the heavy favorite at 149.  But,  I don't see it this year at 157...Anyways Shapiro/Messenbrink are too kids to be excited about especially for our future World Team

[BigRedFan]

  On 12/4/2023 at 2:50 PM, Idaho said:

I think they will both win titles as well... thats a different narrative than "I'm calling it now, undefeated freshman ncaa champ" beliefs that are scattered on message boards and social media. 

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I'm as big a fan of Shapiro as anyone, and even I have never said he'd be an undefeated freshman NCAA champ.  Whoever said that hasn't seen Haines wrestle, for instance.  It seems pretty clear that he is a title contender this year.

[Idaho]

  On 12/4/2023 at 2:58 PM, PortaJohn said:

I never was on the Messenbrink will win 4 titles bandwagon but I was certainly on the Shapiro one.  I probably posted after last years NCAA's that he'd win 4 titles and be the heavy favorite at 149.  But,  I don't see it this year at 157...Anyways Shapiro/Messenbrink are too kids to be excited about especially for our future World Team

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Absolutely.... our u20 and u17 crops are elite.  The fact that guys like Crookham are beating world champs says a lot about the younger kids. 

[1032004]

  On 12/4/2023 at 2:46 PM, BigRedFan said:

Shapiro *always* does the "adjust the kneepads and singlet" strategy in all his matches, all the time.  I've seen enough of his matches to realize this.  Here's Shapiro a couple of weeks ago, 1:30 into a match against Sacred Heart, doing just that (pretty sure he wasn't already gassed).

So he gassed in a match against Bryce Andonian, in which he gets an early escape in the second period, avoids stalling and giving up a takedown and gets a late second period takedown and rides out, then gets a TD a minute into the third period, gets 2NF, and rides out the rest of the period?  Sounds legit.

The ref gave the concussion signal in Shapiro's second *loss*.  About a minute in, but hey, he was gassing.

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Well if he *always* does the “adjust knee pads and singlet” thing then maybe conditioning is an issue?  In the Andonian match after the first period he also completely took off his headgear and took his time putting it back on despite it not even looking messed up.

How about after the last stoppage where he gets called for stalling with 15 seconds left and he lays on his back on the mat for a good 4-5 seconds?  No sign of gassing there?  Just because someone is gassed doesn’t mean they can’t still score points…

[BigRedFan]

  On 12/4/2023 at 3:25 PM, 1032004 said:

Well if he *always* does the “adjust knee pads and singlet” thing then maybe conditioning is an issue?  In the Andonian match after the first period he also completely took off his headgear and took his time putting it back on despite it not even looking messed up.

How about after the last stoppage where he gets called for stalling with 15 seconds left and he lays on his back on the mat for a good 4-5 seconds?  No sign of gassing there?  Just because someone is gassed doesn’t mean they can’t still score points…

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Got it.  You think that he was gassed in a dual meet against Sacred Heart in less than two minutes, because he adjusted his kneepad and singlet and took his time returning to the center of the mat.  He did this in all his matches last year, and he then went on to win the U20 US Open and the U20 World Championship despite his conditioning issue.

Here's him gassed all of :23 seconds into his first match at the U20 world championship.  How he managed to get through the day is truly impressive what with all his conditioning issues.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

  On 12/4/2023 at 2:30 PM, Idaho said:

Concussions.... leg hits... jet lag.... the flu... How about he's a really good wrestler, who is young and learning and took some losses? He's going to be fine. Probably woke up this morning thinking, "Wow what a relief to get a loss out of the way so those intermat posters can lay off now." 

Some of you might want to get your copy and paste ready when. Messenbrink loses  

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Has anyone considered possible "jet leg?' That's where your legs are cramped up on a long flight and walking is tough after.  My teammate claimed he got this on the way to national duals.  I would say that it is certainly something that could decrease performance.

[Pinnacle]

  On 12/4/2023 at 2:33 PM, JimmyBT said:

He got so much praise on here after beating Andonian that he’s decided to step away from college wrestling and run for President 

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Actually, word on the street was that someone told him the first period against Andonian had as much offense as any three matches combined and he believed them and took the next two matches off. 

[Idaho]

  On 12/4/2023 at 4:42 PM, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Has anyone considered possible "jet leg?' That's where your legs are cramped up on a long flight and walking is tough after.  My teammate claimed he got this on the way to national duals.  I would say that it is certainly something that could decrease performance.

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I agree.... I think you may have added a new injury term to the repertoire.  

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

  On 12/4/2023 at 4:57 PM, Idaho said:

I agree.... I think you may have added a new injury term to the repertoire.  

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LOL this actually came from a teammate who thought that "jet lag" was actually "jet leg."  He wasn't the smartest.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

  On 12/4/2023 at 4:55 PM, Pinnacle said:

Actually, word on the street was that someone told him the first period against Andonian had as much offense as any three matches combined and he believed them and took the next two matches off. 

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Andonian vs Ed Scott matches have 18x times the offense of the average college match.  I was fortunate enough to see one in person.  Just fun.