Gabe Arnold

[nhs67]

13 hours ago, Mr. PeanutButter said:

I think Kennedy scores about as many points at 174 as he does at 165. That is, it's draw dependent. This is assuming his knee doesn't hold him back.

I think an in-shape PK can potentially score more at 174 because of the lack of depth there compared to 165 right now.  Right now he needs to get his cardio under him or go on the Spencer Lee diet of trying to ensure first period Techs.

Right now his cardio is a big problem and I am not willing to give him any points at 174.  Once he gets the cardio under his belt we can entertain his options at 174.  He is small, or at least he looked small against Gaitan... which is surprising because PK dwarfed Facundo when they met at WNO, 170lbs (PK coming down from 182lbs and Facundo coming up from 160lbs).  I don't think strength will be a problem for him, but I don't know that he is even at ~175lbs right now.  He looks closer to 165lbs than 174lbs.

At 174 right now this is what I have for Tiers:
- Tier 1 -
Stalrocci, Penn State

- Tier 2 -
EMPTY

- Tier 3 -
Lewis, Virginia Tech
Griffith, Michigan

- Tier 4 -
Kharchla, the Ohio State
Ruth, Illinois
Mocco, Mizzou
Wittlake, Oregon State

- Tier 5 -
Gaitan, Iowa State
Washington, Indiana
Kemp, Cal Poly
DeVos, South Dakota State
Conigliaro, Harvard
O'Malley, Drexel
Incontera, Penn
Brennan, Arkansas-Little Rock

Right now I put PK firmly in 'Tier 5' but if he gets a gas tank under him he could get up to a 'Tier 4' sort of level.  That puts his peak potential at around 4th place, but he could lose to anyone in Tier 4 and Tier 5 still - keeping in mind in my 'tier' systems you can beat a guy up or down a tier from you and not have it be a big surprise.

13 hours ago, Mr. PeanutButter said:

As exciting as it was to see Gabe win, I don't really think a win over Feldkamp is a good indicator for potential success at 184. Feldkamp had a solid tournament last year but he also had some head scratching losses. I don't see him as the 6th best 184. Furthermore, Feldkamp was able to move Gabe around quite a bit, it's just that Arnold did a really solid job of circling back in. I don't think a match against someone like Keckeisen looks pretty. At 174, I feel real good about Gabe against anyone outside the top 4. 

Overall, I think Gabe scores more points alone at 174 than he and Kennedy score combined across 174 and 184. Sucks for Kennedy if he can't crack the lineup. I really like him.

I see what you are saying about Feldkamp, however I don't think he was horsing Gabe around... I think he was using length/leverage - which Feldkamp does to everyone and then uses that leverage to walk away via a Pinfell victory.  Gabe was able to counter that with superior hips as well as being stronger (him circling each time was a sign that strength was not a problem).

I am not an Iowa fan... you all know this.  I am a Michigander (UofM, MSU, CMU, Michigan kids) then B1G then MAC.  You guys know this.  That said, if he goes 184, I think his peak potential at 184 is the same as 174.  He might now be beating Keckeisen or Sta(l)rocci, but he is right in there to beat anyone else at either of those weights.

Kennedy isn't doing anything at 184.  He was small and without a tank against 174lb Gaitan.  Imagine what those matches look like last night had they done Kennedy at 184 and Arnold at 174.  Commical, probably, and Feldkamp likely decks Kennedy - giving Iowa State the victory.

At the end of the day you aren't convincing me that Arnold, who beat Wittlake (Wittlake lost to Munoz 4-3 last year at 184, btw) and Feldkamp (7th at 184 last year) wouldn't be able to do something at 184, were he given the chance.

 

EDIT: As a disclaimer, my Tiers might be missing a gent or two in Tier 4/5.  I am okay with that.  I wasn't trying to list 77 gents out in Tier order and I don't like going past Tier 5.

Edited November 27, 2023 by nhs67

[Pinnacle]

Wasn't yesterday a preview of what to expect from Iowa? 

157 Franak

165 Caliendo

174 PK

184 Arnold

What is the other option for them? Caliendo sits and then PK and Arnold drop a weight class? That would seem unlikely, but I am no expert on their inner discussions.

Is the Stilly Car Dealership showing up in January to re arrange the whole parking lot? 

Edited November 27, 2023 by Pinnacle

[ionel]

17 hours ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Carter should be scared.  Gabe just beat #5 at 184.

but he is too short ...

[Wrestleknownothing]

23 minutes ago, Pinnacle said:

Wasn't yesterday a preview of what to expect from Iowa? 

157 Franak

165 Caliendo

174 PK

184 Arnold

What is the other option for them? Caliendo sits and then PK and Arnold drop a weight class? That would seem unlikely, but I am no expert on their inner discussions.

Is the Stilly Car Dealership showing up in January to re arrange the whole parking lot? 

Not sure if it was a preview or a one off to win a dual.

As to Arnold he wrestled 174 for the six matches and was only told he was going up to 184 the day before. Seems more tactical than strategic.

Besides, I reeeeeeally want to see him wrestle Starocci in CHA.

[Pinnacle]

7 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Not sure if it was a preview or a one off to win a dual.

As to Arnold he wrestled 174 for the six matches and was only told he was going up to 184 the day before. Seems more tactical than strategic.

Besides, I reeeeeeally want to see him wrestle Starocci in CHA.

So who takes over 184 if the plan is Arnold to 174? A Ferrari? Glazier drops down? 

Wrestlestat crazily has Arnold losing to Nebraska, Michigan and Oklahoma State. I think he is equally likely to win those matches. As for Starocci, that would be a different matter.

[CHROMEBIRD]

11 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Besides, I reeeeeeally want to see him wrestle Starocci in CHA.

This.

[1032004]

If I’m Tom, I have Arnold and Kennedy wrestle off for 174.

If Arnold wins, he goes and Kennedy to 184.

If Arnold loses, I’d lean towards redshirting him unless Gabe himself would rather wrestle 184 than redshirt

[poorwrestler]

Arnold will be instantly elite at 174. Won’t beat Starocci, but could take 2nd and win after Starocci graduates.

I think you need a bigger sample size at 184 before pulling his shirt with the mindset that that’s his spot. Feldkamp is a unique wrestler and Arnold wrestled him perfectly, but I think there are those with different types of attacks that would be able to land them easier. Especially if they’re that much bigger.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Wrestleknownothing]

11 minutes ago, Pinnacle said:

So who takes over 184 if the plan is Arnold to 174? A Ferrari? Glazier drops down? 

Wrestlestat crazily has Arnold losing to Nebraska, Michigan and Oklahoma State. I think he is equally likely to win those matches. As for Starocci, that would be a different matter.

I do not have a good answer there. But the heart wants what the heart wants.

• Arnold calls out Starocci and says he is over rated.
• Arnold doubles down with an I said what I said.
• Starocci responds it will be fun to beat him in front of his mom and dad.
• Starocci beat Kemerer last time at CHA.
• But only after a ref's review to see if Kemerer had gotten the winning take down.
• The crowd exploded like I have never heard when they thought they had the win.
• A bottle was thrown when they realized they did not.

Mr. All In On Iowa vs The Ultimate PSU Villain.

We want this. Wee need this. We must have this.

[Warm Up Champ]

1 hour ago, ionel said:

but he is too short ...

Short guys can be difficult to wrestle.....

[nhs67]

54 minutes ago, poorwrestler said:

Arnold will be instantly elite at 174. Won’t beat Starocci, but could take 2nd and win after Starocci graduates.

I think you need a bigger sample size at 184 before pulling his shirt with the mindset that that’s his spot. Feldkamp is a unique wrestler and Arnold wrestled him perfectly, but I think there are those with different types of attacks that would be able to land them easier. Especially if they’re that much bigger.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Exactly why I said let him go at the Soldier Salute at 184 and against Penn State at 184 (or even 174 IDGAF... Sta(l)rocci likely wins 184 were he to go there, too).  If he beats, or at the very least is in both of those matches all the way through, you let him go the rest of the year.

You gear up and have him wrestle some lower Opens to get him more wins at 184, if the potential is tehre.

[nhs67]

1 hour ago, 1032004 said:

If I’m Tom, I have Arnold and Kennedy wrestle off for 174.

If Arnold wins, he goes and Kennedy to 184.

If Arnold loses, I’d lean towards redshirting him unless Gabe himself would rather wrestle 184 than redshirt

I am all for both of these.  Kennedy likely is too small for 184, but I don't think he is too weak for 184.  Guy has had old man strength since the age of three.

EDIT: Also, it would be a sort of poetic justice win for me.  I was pushing for Caliendo to 184 because I know the guy is a physical animal and wouldn't have a problem as far as strength goes.  The ole switcharoo... the OTHER AA caliber 165lber does the double bump.

Edited November 27, 2023 by nhs67

[poorwrestler]

Exactly why I said let him go at the Soldier Salute at 184 and against Penn State at 184 (or even 174 IDGAF... Sta(l)rocci likely wins 184 were he to go there, too).  If he beats, or at the very least is in both of those matches all the way through, you let him go the rest of the year.
You gear up and have him wrestle some lower Opens to get him more wins at 184, if the potential is tehre.

Yeah I think that’s perfect. Minnesota and North Carolina are going to be at Soldier Salute I believe. If they wrestle, Salazar and Kane would be a pretty good litmus test.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Pinnacle]

53 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

I do not have a good answer there. But the heart wants what the heart wants.

• Arnold calls out Starocci and says he is over rated.
• Arnold doubles down with an I said what I said.
• Starocci responds it will be fun to beat him in front of his mom and dad.
• Starocci beat Kemerer last time at CHA.
• But only after a ref's review to see if Kemerer had gotten the winning take down.
• The crowd exploded like I have never heard when they thought they had the win.
• A bottle was thrown when they realized they did not.

Mr. All In On Iowa vs The Ultimate PSU Villain.

We want this. Wee need this. We must have this.

 

That is a nice "want", but you are probably set up to be disappointed. Starocci probably beats Arnold just as he beat Mehki. 

[1032004]

1 minute ago, nhs67 said:

I am all for both of these.  Kennedy likely is too small for 184, but I don't think he is too weak for 184.  Guy has had old man strength since the age of three.

Yeah I don’t think Kennedy would do all that well at 184, but he’s likely their best option if Arnold is at 174, and especially if Swafford is out.  But I’d guess Kennedy is likely a better option than Swafford anyway.

[nhs67]

Just now, poorwrestler said:

Yeah I think that’s perfect. Minnesota and North Carolina are going to be at Soldier Salute I believe. If they wrestle, Salazar and Kane would be a pretty good litmus test.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If the plan, or idea, is for Arnold to actually go the better (best) option is a winner chooses sort of wrestle-off between him and Kennedy.  I don't think it is a forgone conclusion that Arnold beats Kennedy.

If the scenario plays out to Arnold wrestling 184 at the Salute, I don't think you have him go back down to 174 in any scenario for the balance of the year... even if it means him wrestling against Sta(l)rocci becomes a no-go (sorry Wkn).

[nhs67]

Just now, Pinnacle said:

 

That is a nice "want", but you are probably set up to be disappointed. Starocci probably beats Arnold just as he beat Mehki. 

The Mekhi that showed up to the ASC had very little mobility or, dare I say, drive to succeed against Sta(l)rocci.  He didn't look like he wanted to be there and Sta(l)rocci was out to prove that he didn't want to wrestle him.  Sta(l)rocci proved just that.

[nhs67]

2 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Yeah I don’t think Kennedy would do all that well at 184, but he’s likely their best option if Arnold is at 174, and especially if Swafford is out.  But I’d guess Kennedy is likely a better option than Swafford anyway.

Kennedy and Swafford got damn close - dare I say best friends close - the last few years.  They were primary partners and I don't think it would be a forgone conclusion that Kennedy beats out Swafford, were Swafford able to go.  Swafford is(was) one of the more improved guys on the Iowa team the last few years and that is directly because of PK being his primary training partner.

Would I also take Kennedy at 184 if given the option?  Not sure.  I would at 174, so I guess that should be my answer at 184 as well.

[Pinnacle]

1 minute ago, nhs67 said:

The Mekhi that showed up to the ASC had very little mobility or, dare I say, drive to succeed against Sta(l)rocci.  He didn't look like he wanted to be there and Sta(l)rocci was out to prove that he didn't want to wrestle him.  Sta(l)rocci proved just that.

You are diminishing Starocci over Mehki why? To imply Gabe Arnold is going to beat Carter? 

[nhs67]

Also of note: Arnold weighed in at 183.9.  I know he wrestled 174 previously, but now he must follow a decent plan to get back to 174.

That puts his decent (it's still 1.5% per week right?) at this...

12/3/23 - 181.1
12/10/23 - 178.4
12/17/23 - 175.7
12/24/23 - 173.1

The earliest he could wrestle at 174 again would be Christmas Eve.  That lines up well with the Soldier Salute.

[Wrestleknownothing]

7 minutes ago, Pinnacle said:

 

That is a nice "want", but you are probably set up to be disappointed. Starocci probably beats Arnold just as he beat Mehki. 

I think you misunderstand my motivations. I want the match to happen because I want nice things.

If it happens I think Starocci handles Arnold with little issue.

[nhs67]

2 minutes ago, Pinnacle said:

You are diminishing Starocci over Mehki why? To imply Gabe Arnold is going to beat Carter? 

I was not diminishing Sta(l)rocci in any way, shape, or form.  This is a thread about Gabe Arnold.  What I was saying is that Gabe Arnold wants that match and is hungry for that match.  That is what I was saying.  Mekhi Lewis did not look like he wanted anything to do with Sta(l)rocci.

[1032004]

15 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Kennedy and Swafford got damn close - dare I say best friends close - the last few years.  They were primary partners and I don't think it would be a forgone conclusion that Kennedy beats out Swafford, were Swafford able to go.  Swafford is(was) one of the more improved guys on the Iowa team the last few years and that is directly because of PK being his primary training partner.

Would I also take Kennedy at 184 if given the option?  Not sure.  I would at 174, so I guess that should be my answer at 184 as well.

Hmmm

On 11/1/2023 at 2:22 PM, Mr. PeanutButter said:

You write about Swafford more than his own brother. You guys related? Used to lift at the Y together? 

 

[Pinnacle]

1 hour ago, nhs67 said:

I was not diminishing Sta(l)rocci in any way, shape, or form.  This is a thread about Gabe Arnold.  What I was saying is that Gabe Arnold wants that match and is hungry for that match.  That is what I was saying.  Mekhi Lewis did not look like he wanted anything to do with Sta(l)rocci.

You said that Mehki had no mobility, little drive to be there (no will to win) and that he didn't want to be there. That implies Starocci won the way he did because, for lack of a better way of putting it, Mehki mailed it in. 

You say Arnold is hungry for a match with Starocci but also say you think Carter would win. Ok. I agree on that. 

[TylerDurden]

1 hour ago, Pinnacle said:

 

That is a nice "want", but you are probably set up to be disappointed. Starocci probably beats Arnold just as he beat Mehki. 

Worse. The Arnold I watched last night gets teched by Starocci.