Transformative moments

[jross]

What discussion on the forum made you reconsider your stance on a particular topic? What about the conversation or the perspectives shared by other members led to a change of mind?

[WrestlingRasta]

I gotta admit while @Offthemat and I are on opposite ends of the spectrum on a couple specific topics (although probably on same side of things on a lot of issues) he has said a couple things on here that have made me think hmmm…

(asking me to remember specifics at this point in time is not gonna bear a lot of fruit) 

[Lipdrag]

Echoing 'Rasta; I, too, have reconsidered and softened my opinion, or sharpened my thinking, or become aware of something I had not previously considered at all on some topics (both wrestling and non-wrestling related) via being a member of this forum.  I don't have specifics immediately in mind but can certify (sorry 3PtTD without proof) that it has happened and continues to happen.

[Bigbrog]

Agreed!  I have looked at things differently and modified my stance on stuff many times.  Really hard thinking of specifics and who specifically changed my thinking...I can't remember what I had for breakfast...I am pretty sure GWN has made me think of a few times, even despite of some of our back and forths.  Same with UB despite of his terrible take on Israel.  Rasta has had some things too...

[jross]

I've largely thought about J6 as predominantly peaceful, a march or protest that became violent.  The initial videos of boomers walking around waving flags seemed peaceful... the crowds were not much different, albeit smaller, than the Superbowl and World Series parades with tens or hundreds of thousands of supporters.  Like many large groups of people, some violence occurs... in this case, enough to say there were pockets of riots in the form of vandalism, some looting, and some fighting with police.  $1 million in damages is now $3 million in property damages.  That's some riot activities.

I didn't think about it being an attempt to overthrow the government.  There were too many smiles, too many grandparents, not enough buildings on fire, and it seemed the most well-armed citizens forgot to bring their guns. Even without pitchforks and lanterns, it would have been easy for the crowd to have taken control of the capital had it been organized and wanted to.

The J6 behavior differed significantly from what I'd seen repeatedly in the city protests and riots for BLM.  The establishment talked out of both sides of its mouth, encouraging BLM supporters to 'fight' for the cause while it and its media kept describing riots as peaceful protests.  $2 billion in damages, guns, murders, and so on.  This set a baseline for 'peaceful' to me.  Had this been condemned and called what it was, I might have been more initially open to the later narrative of J6 as a violent insurrection.  I am sure some nutjobs would have liked an insurrection.  But this was a relatively small group and, as we later learned, rioting was incited by both Trump and non-Trump supporters.  The twist and smear were immediately displayed across the media and establishment, broadly labeling everyone who attended the event and trespassed as a domestic terrorist... which is a more unethical lie to me than the wrongness of the violence.  

My understanding will continue to change as more of J6 is revealed.

This video and the comments at 4:30 are thought-provoking about incited violence.

 

Do you know what closes off my listening?  Folks who refer to J6 as a violent insurrection while refusing to acknowledge the nuance of it being predominantly peaceful... and those that recognize BLM as predominantly peaceful while refusing to acknowledge the total sum of violence it brought.  

[WrestlingRasta]

To be honest anyone who refuses to truly see Jan 6 for what it was, whether it be to overhype it or to downplay what was going on, is pretty disgusting to me. 

[Paul158]

Is America Still the " Shining City on a Hill " ? Its not looking very good.

[jross]

let me say it again.

One can condemn j6 without condemning everyone there.

One can acknowledge violence at BLM protests without dismissing the large amount of peace. 

 

 

[Plasmodium]

1 hour ago, jross said:

let me say it again.

One can condemn j6 without condemning everyone there.

One can acknowledge violence at BLM protests without dismissing the large amount of peace. 

 

 

All is true. 

The significance of J6 was far, far beyond the violence.

[neutral]

Seeking a transformative conversation within the confines of an obscure thread in a wrestling forum is kind of silly. 

[jross]

Good conversations and shifts in thinking can happen anywhere. Be friendly, open to new ideas, and a good listener. Discussing views with folks who share your love for wrestling is great! It's a middle ground between strangers and family—having a common interest creates trust and a (somewhat) comfortable space for non-wrestling discussion.

[mspart]

This ^

mspart

[neutral]

2 hours ago, jross said:

—having a common interest creates trust and a (somewhat) comfortable space for non-wrestling discussion.

I don't trust J6 sympathizers or election conspiracists. 

[jross]

46 minutes ago, neutral said:

I don't trust J6 sympathizers or election conspiracists. 

Ah, but do you grasp the essence of my statements regarding J6?

There is a difference between expressing a nuanced viewpoint and actively sympathizing with or endorsing criminal behavior.  The differentiation is important, and the meaning is large.

Concerning conspiracy, I hope we can all acknowledge that people sometimes conceal the truth.  Who do you instinctively mistrust due to their secrets?  Why do you mistrust them?  What if this person was in power?  Or perhaps they already have power? 

Many people (not just Democrats) suspected irregularities in the 2000 and 2016 presidential elections.

I confess.  I believe there are irregularities in the 2020 election data, and my suspicions heightened due to the perceived lack of transparency.

 

[Offthemat]

3 hours ago, neutral said:

I don't trust J6 sympathizers or election conspiracists. 

 

[Paul158]

13 hours ago, Offthemat said:

 

I wonder if Hillary knows that it is not the popular vote  but the electoral vote. This is really good. I think the democrats have selective memory when it comes to elections. So they are by far biggest election deniers in history. It is amazing how forgetful they are. 

[mspart]

This might be transformative.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/battery-crushes-teslas-tech-unveils-160816090.html

New Battery Crushes Tesla's Tech, Unveils A Solid-State Marvel With 300% Higher Energy Density, 15-minute Ultra-Fast Charge

mspart

 

[jross]

I could not believe this document on Population Control measures was real but it is.

How many proposed measures have been enacted since 1969?

 

See more at https://twitter.com/DiedSuddenly_/status/1731425646184738924 

[mspart]

And our country is so much better for it. 

mspart

[jross]

Why are illegal aliens allowed to flood into the United States?

---

I've thought about the open borders as a long-term Democratic power play.  In 20 years, immigrant children with birthright citizenship will vote Democrat... and the illegal elders will gain citizenship over time. 

The recent immigration flood is not primarily about asylum.

What other reasons might there be a flood of immigrants to the USA and elsewhere?

---

I couldn't fathom it might be destabilizing the country to reduce republicanism, support for the US Constitution concerning liberty and justice, etc...

Consider my mind blown by coincidences!

There is a 'fictional' blueprint for one world government that imposes strict control over all aspects of society. This control includes limitations on population size, restrictions on individual freedoms, the abolition of family life, control of information, and the concentration of wealth and power.  Digital currency, engineered wars, state-raised children, US, flooded with illegal aliens for destabilization purposes, guns taken away, organized epidemics of fatal rapid-acting diseases, etc.

How many actions in the extract have or are occurring in the USA or elsewhere?  See pages 103 through 107 of this book on CIA gov for the extract.

Edited December 5, 2023 by jross

[Offthemat]

Warrants for likes and retweets.  A dragnet  

https://thefederalist.com/2023/11/29/special-counsel-jack-smith-sought-info-on-anyone-who-favorited-or-retweeted-trump-tweets/

 

“But it wasn’t just Trump’s Twitter account that Smith and his cronies were targeting. The special counsel’s warrant also sought data on Twitter users who interacted with the former president’s account. Among the information Smith sought was a list of every user Trump “followed, unfollowed, muted, unmuted, blocked, or unblocked” during the aforementioned timeframe. Smith similarly demanded that Twitter, which has since rebranded as X, fork over a list of users who took any of the same actions with Trump’s account.”

Edited December 6, 2023 by Offthemat