Upset Thread

[Gus]

14 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

Okay so let's take a step back for a second because everyone seems to consistently miss the point.

There are limited opportunities due to lack of weight classes. If you give more weight classes then naturally the participant pool will grow. When your options are

1) Bulk up as much as possible to get up to 240-250 and lose what made you special in the first place

2) Cut harder than anyone else on the team to shrink down to 197 and lose what made you special in the first place

3) Do neither and enjoy college but give up wrestling as the cost

Then you are only presented with miserable choices. Everyone else gets a weight class for their body why can't the people taller than 5'7 who hit the gym?

What if we left the first 7 weight classes alone and then adjusted 184 to 190 and 197 to 214. That matches up with 86kg and 97kg and doesn't mess with the lower weights where there are more participants. 

125

133

141

149

157

165

174

190

214

285

[nhs67]

8 minutes ago, Gus said:

What if we left the first 7 weight classes alone and then adjusted 184 to 190 and 197 to 214. That matches up with 86kg and 97kg and doesn't mess with the lower weights where there are more participants. 

125

133

141

149

157

165

174

190

214

285

I believe one of our biggest reasons we struggle at 65 KG internationally, with our best wrestlers, is that the Zains and Johnny D's end up going 149lbs and have to do a lot to get back to 65 KG (143lbs).  It can't really be denied that Johnny D was more successful for us when he was making 141lbs than he was when he went 149lbs can it?

[Gus]

2 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

I believe one of our biggest reasons we struggle at 65 KG internationally, with our best wrestlers, is that the Zains and Johnny D's end up going 149lbs and have to do a lot to get back to 65 KG (143lbs).  It can't really be denied that Johnny D was more successful for us when he was making 141lbs than he was when he went 149lbs can it?

That is a possibility. Could also just be that 65kg is one of the deepest weight classes internationally and we have not had a guy break through. I thought I read that Yianna walked around at 165-170 so the pull to 143 was probably tough. He may have just outgrown that weight class like Zain. Do you think that if the college weight was 143/144 and then the next weight was like 154 that Yianni and Zain would have not had the same issues that they had?

[nhs67]

8 minutes ago, Gus said:

That is a possibility. Could also just be that 65kg is one of the deepest weight classes internationally and we have not had a guy break through. I thought I read that Yianna walked around at 165-170 so the pull to 143 was probably tough. He may have just outgrown that weight class like Zain. Do you think that if the college weight was 143/144 and then the next weight was like 154 that Yianni and Zain would have not had the same issues that they had?

I think that they would have developed a lifestyle that revolved around that weight, rather than one that was in-between two weights.

James Green, our GOAT 70 KG guy wrestled 157lbs and had said himself he walked around at around 160lbs in-season.  Him going ~154.3lbs wasn't much of a pull, considering.  We saw what happened when he gave 74 KG and 65 KG a go and it was not with success.

Were we to form our weight classes to fit the next level up, we would perform better long-term.

[MPhillips]

39 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Were we to form our weight classes to fit the next level up, we would perform better long-term.

The fact that you have to keep explaining this over and over to, "wrestling folks" must be maddening...

[Gus]

1 hour ago, nhs67 said:

I think that they would have developed a lifestyle that revolved around that weight, rather than one that was in-between two weights.

James Green, our GOAT 70 KG guy wrestled 157lbs and had said himself he walked around at around 160lbs in-season.  Him going ~154.3lbs wasn't much of a pull, considering.  We saw what happened when he gave 74 KG and 65 KG a go and it was not with success.

Were we to form our weight classes to fit the next level up, we would perform better long-term.

 

58 minutes ago, MPhillips said:

The fact that you have to keep explaining this over and over to, "wrestling folks" must be maddening...

I am just not convinced wrestling the college season at 143 vs 141/149 would have this astronomical advantage that you all are saying it would. Zain grew into a nice sized 70kg wrestler (154lb). As he matured, 143lbs just was not the right size for him. James Green walked around at 160 (according to nhs) so he was too small to be a true 74kg (163 lbs) and too big to be a 65kg (143lbs) based on how lean he was. We have had great success at 97kg without have a college weight class at 214lbs. Your doctrine is being developed based on a few tweeners for weight classes. Wrestling the college season at 141 should allow for a young man that is maturing to grow into 143 lbs for senior level competition. 

I also admit that I would have no problem with aligning the weight classes for NCAA to fit the international standards better but it is true that there are more wrestlers in those middle weights than the upper weights. I do not think that college wrestling needs three weight classes above 200lbs.

[MPhillips]

11 minutes ago, Gus said:

I also admit that I would have no problem with aligning the weight classes for NCAA to fit the international standards better

So why the debate... Aligning the weight classes is the point, is it not?

[ionel]

24 minutes ago, Gus said:

 

I also admit that I would have no problem with aligning the weight classes for NCAA to fit the international standards better 

But how do you do that?  Kids add weight and muscle at different rates, some even don't after college.  Do you expect 5%, 10% ... ?

[Gus]

10 minutes ago, MPhillips said:

So why the debate... Aligning the weight classes is the point, is it not?

For one, as stated, I don't think that college wrestling needs three weight classes above 200lbs. The upper weights in high school are generally the weakest and least filled weight classes. 

[Gus]

6 minutes ago, ionel said:

But how do you do that?  Kids add weight and muscle at different rates, some even don't after college.  Do you expect 5%, 10% ... ?

That is a good question. If we are all about our wrestlers growing and not pulling a ton of weight then having college weight classes slightly below international standards would be the way to go. Where we are getting into some strange scenarios is that we have 24/25 year old athletes in college right now.