How is a person saved today?

[jross]

9 hours ago, Gus said:

Do you believe the Bible to be the inspired and true Word of God? I hear your a response similar to yours a lot and I am curious to understand the reasoning

Which bible and version?  Which books are included or left out in your version?  Which language?  Was it translated without error?  Is it logical and consistent  Which sect best represents your interpretation of the Bible?

How does the Old Testament make you feel about god?  

Have you met the people who proclaim their faith?

Having been raised Christian (Baptist, Nazarene, non denominational) and having read the Bible multiple times, unfortunately no.

Edited September 10, 2023 by jross

[Ban Basketball]

12 hours ago, Gus said:

Which Christian traditions do not believe in salvation?

What I meant was is that there are a handful of traditions that adamantly believe and teach that one must be saved,  declare Jesus as their savior,  be baptized,  etc. in order to really reach salvation. 

Ones I think of right away are Pentacostals and Baptists, particularly southern baptists, if I'm not mistaken. 

I was raised, and still consider myself,  Lutheran  and that is not a part of our practice or belief. 

[jross]

For some, the method of baptism - immersion, sprinkling, pouring - matters a great deal as well as rebaptism...

[Gus]

16 hours ago, flyingcement said:

I don't believe any written book would be immune to humans desire to change the message as they were putting ideas to paper.  Considering the number of translations as well as the points at which different books were considered to be included by committees of the Vatican, there have been plenty of opportunities for people to intervene and change original stories.  The human memory also doesn't work perfectly and these stories were told by mouth for many decades before being written down.  And I'm only talking New Testament here obviously with Old Testament being what I believe is obviously allegorical in many places.  

 

I agree that any human written book would not be immune to error. The Bible, in its original manuscripts, however, was not written merely be humans. The people that wrote the Bible were a conduit for the Holy Spirit. The Apostle Paul, through revelation from the ascended Lord Jesus Christ, tell us that all scripture is inspired by God and is profitable for doctrine, reproof and correction (2 Tim 3:16). The key to unlocking the Bible is to rightly divide the Word of truth (2 Tim 2:15). Most of the Bible (from Gen 12 through Acts 9 and then again from Hebrews to Revelation) was written to the nation of Israel. A Christian today should look to Paul’s letters (Romans - Philemon) for doctrine. This is where a person learns how to be saved - the shed blood of Christ. And how it is by faith, without any works (Eph 2:8), just God’s grace. The rest of scripture should be used for reproof and correction. We can build our faith, awe and reverence from God through the Old Testament but our doctrine for the church (the body of Christ) should be found in Paul’s Epistles. 

[Gus]

7 hours ago, jross said:

Which bible and version?  Which books are included or left out in your version?  Which language?  Was it translated without error?  Is it logical and consistent  Which sect best represents your interpretation of the Bible?

How does the Old Testament make you feel about god?  

Have you met the people who proclaim their faith?

Having been raised Christian (Baptist, Nazarene, non denominational) and having read the Bible multiple times, unfortunately no.

In the past I have attempted to read the Bible multiple times and always came away very confused as well. I believe the key to understanding the Bible is found in 2 Tim 2:15 “Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.”
‭‭When I learned to rightly divide the word of truth the Bible opened up and I was able to understand it in a way like never before. The church today, the body of Christ, was a mystery hid in God from the foundation of the earth (“Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭16‬:‭25‬ ‭KJV‬‬) and God selected Saul of Tarsus whom you may know as the Apostle Paul, to build the body of Christ. 

[Gus]

4 hours ago, Ban Basketball said:

What I meant was is that there are a handful of traditions that adamantly believe and teach that one must be saved,  declare Jesus as their savior,  be baptized,  etc. in order to really reach salvation. 

Ones I think of right away are Pentacostals and Baptists, particularly southern baptists, if I'm not mistaken. 

I was raised, and still consider myself,  Lutheran  and that is not a part of our practice or belief. 

I was raised Lutheran as well. I believe that all of these denominations still believe in salvation they just have different ways in which they think they will be saved. Some think you need to repent and be baptized for the remission of sins (baptist), some believe that it is all predetermined (reformed and assembly of his type churches) while others believe a mixture of things. 

[Ban Basketball]

29 minutes ago, Gus said:

I was raised Lutheran as well. I believe that all of these denominations still believe in salvation they just have different ways in which they think they will be saved. Some think you need to repent and be baptized for the remission of sins (baptist), some believe that it is all predetermined (reformed and assembly of his type churches) while others believe a mixture of things. 

Exactly what I was trying to say,  but couldn't state it as clearly as you did. 

[jross]

6 hours ago, Gus said:

In the past I have attempted to read the Bible multiple times and always came away very confused as well. I believe the key to understanding the Bible is found in 2 Tim 2:15 “Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.”
‭‭When I learned to rightly divide the word of truth the Bible opened up and I was able to understand it in a way like never before. The church today, the body of Christ, was a mystery hid in God from the foundation of the earth (“Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭16‬:‭25‬ ‭KJV‬‬) and God selected Saul of Tarsus whom you may know as the Apostle Paul, to build the body of Christ. 

Confused isn’t the right word for it.  Why do Christian’s say to start with the New Testament and try to ignore the unethical Old Testament.

[Gus]

20 minutes ago, jross said:

Confused isn’t the right word for it.  Why do Christian’s say to start with the New Testament and try to ignore the unethical Old Testament.

Christians say to start with the New Testament because it is doctrine for the church the body of Christ today. God’s message of salvation through the Lord Jesus Christ and his finished work on the cross is only found in Paul’s epistles. 

What specifically about the Old Testament did you find unethical? God’s dealing or people’s dealings? 

[jross]

28 minutes ago, Gus said:

Christians say to start with the New Testament because it is doctrine for the church the body of Christ today. God’s message of salvation through the Lord Jesus Christ and his finished work on the cross is only found in Paul’s epistles. 

What specifically about the Old Testament did you find unethical? God’s dealing or people’s dealings? 

Both.  Alas it was a different time.  I’ll let myself out of this conversation.  I’ve argued for and against and wish to know more.  It comes to faith alone.  I currently choose logic.

[Gus]

19 minutes ago, jross said:

Both.  Alas it was a different time.  I’ll let myself out of this conversation.  I’ve argued for and against and wish to know more.  It comes to faith alone.  I currently choose logic.

Fair enough. I can see man’s immoral actions but God has no immoral actions is my stance. I agree that is comes down to faith alone. 1 Cor 2:14 “But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.”

[ionel]

10 hours ago, jross said:

Both.  Alas it was a different time.  I’ll let myself out of this conversation.  I’ve argued for and against and wish to know more.  It comes to faith alone.  I currently choose logic.

Which takes more faith:  creation or big bang theory? 

[jross]

2 hours ago, ionel said:

Which takes more faith:  creation or big bang theory? 

Regardless of what science claims, they both require faith.  There may be a god or not; there is no irrefutable evidence that exists, but the intelligent design concept is a compelling case to consider for 'creation.'
 

Edited September 11, 2023 by jross

[nhs67]

On 9/8/2023 at 11:25 AM, nhs67 said:

Isn't the answer the same today as it was yesterday?

If you accept the Fjord Chris Christie in to your wife you win?

If not I have a bone to pick with someone else about their boning of my wife.

Sorry guys... did I win or not?

[Wrestleknownothing]

On 9/10/2023 at 6:02 AM, flyingcement said:

I don't believe any written book would be immune to humans desire to change the message as they were putting ideas to paper.  Considering the number of translations as well as the points at which different books were considered to be included by committees of the Vatican, there have been plenty of opportunities for people to intervene and change original stories.  The human memory also doesn't work perfectly and these stories were told by mouth for many decades before being written down.  And I'm only talking New Testament here obviously with Old Testament being what I believe is obviously allegorical in many places.  

 

If you are interested in a layman's guide to these issues, check out "Misquoting Jesus" by Bart Ehrman. I found it to be very accesible as a non-scholar of The Bible.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misquoting_Jesus

 

I also took a class in college where I had to buy this book: 

https://books.google.com/books/about/Gospel_Parallels.html?id=AldMcgAACAAJ&source=kp_book_description

It is educational to see Matthew, Mark, and Luke lined up in parallel so you can easily examine similarities and differences.