PSU's lineup for 2023-24

[Antitroll2828]

10 hours ago, nhs67 said:

Kurt McHenry has a legitimate chance to start for them this season.

Ryan Howard has done nothing that should convince anyone otherwise.

Also incoming true frosh Braeden Davis (really any of their four lightweight true frosh) as well as incumbent starter Gary Steen are both well in the conversation to be the starter by season's end.

If they have a hole, it is at 125lbs.

Howard did more then mchenry in one season with one arm lol if Howard stays healthy he’s top 4 this year and has a legit shot at winning it 

[Wrestleknownothing]

22 minutes ago, ionel said:

What do you know?

I will have to get back to you on that.

[1032004]

54 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

Howard did more then mchenry in one season with one arm lol if Howard stays healthy he’s top 4 this year and has a legit shot at winning it 

Do you think Michael DeAugustino has a legit shot at winning it?

[Antitroll2828]

3 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Do you think Michael DeAugustino has a legit shot at winning it?

Idk he seemed pretty beat up physically last year and this is his 6th straight year competing? And he transferred, history says no , but if his body’s right I’d give him a shot at 125 it seems pretty open 

[flyingcement]

If Howard stays healthy (a big if) id consider him blood round level guy

[flyingcement]

McHenry is the better wrestler but lacks ideal size.  

[1032004]

39 minutes ago, flyingcement said:

If Howard stays healthy (a big if) id consider him blood round level guy

Do you think Michael DeAugustino is a title contender?

Edited August 24, 2023 by 1032004

[1032004]

Ah shoot I totally read wrestlestat backwards lol, I could’ve sworn Howard had beaten DeAugustino but he didn’t.  Regardless I do think they’re both on the same level and could both be considered title contenders.  Howard could also go 0-2.  If he does place in like the top 4 or so then PSU probably does break the record

[flyingcement]

5 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Do you think Michael DeAugustino is a title contender?

No

[flyingcement]

1 minute ago, 1032004 said:

Ah shoot I totally read wrestlestat backwards lol, I could’ve sworn Howard had beaten DeAugustino but he didn’t.  Regardless I do think they’re both on the same level and could both be considered title contenders.  Howard could also go 0-2.  If he does place in like the top 4 or so then PSU probably does break the record

Agree to disagree but will be interesting to see how it all plays out.  

I've definitely done that before on wrestlestat with reversing the outcome 

[1032004]

10 minutes ago, flyingcement said:

Agree to disagree but will be interesting to see how it all plays out.  

I've definitely done that before on wrestlestat with reversing the outcome 

Ton of parity at 125, I wouldn’t be surprised to see any of the top 12 or so guys win it.  DeAugustino majored Ramos last year at B10’s, and also beat Barnett there.

Noto lost to Heinselman last year, who Howard has beaten (yes it’s been awhile).

Ventresca is the 3rd highest returning guy and he had 9 losses last year.

[Antitroll2828]

1 hour ago, flyingcement said:

If Howard stays healthy (a big if) id consider him blood round level guy

Idk if it’s a big if, he finally had the surgery he put off for years then had over a full year to recover , he’s also a 3 time cadet world team member and world champ , and a top 15 ish recruit to penn state  idk see how McHenry is the better wrestler by any standard 

Mchenry lost to Ohio states 3rd stringer and Utah valleys starter last season 

1 hour ago, flyingcement said:

McHenry is the better wrestler but lacks ideal size.  

 

[Le duke]

 

McHenry would be an NCAA champ at 118 under the current weigh-in rules.

He’s a kid who walks around at 125 wrestling guys who weigh 10+ lbs more than him.


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[Antitroll2828]

37 minutes ago, Le duke said:

McHenry would be an NCAA champ at 118 under the current weigh-in rules.

He’s a kid who walks around at 125 wrestling guys who weigh 10+ lbs more than him.


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Kyle Snyder won 3 ncaa titles wrestling guys 40-60 pounds more then him, Bernie traux weighed 184 the day he took 4th at 197 , wrestling guys definitely weighing in the 200s 

[flyingcement]

2 hours ago, Antitroll2828 said:

Kyle Snyder won 3 ncaa titles wrestling guys 40-60 pounds more then him, Bernie traux weighed 184 the day he took 4th at 197 , wrestling guys definitely weighing in the 200s 

Giving up ten plus pounds at 125, is a much bigger disadvantage than doing the same at 197.  Kyle freaking Snyder is a high bar for measurement and heavyweight has bigger variations in size (and fewer eligible participants) than other weights where the depth of competitive wrestlers goes much further.

[Antitroll2828]

29 minutes ago, flyingcement said:

Giving up ten plus pounds at 125, is a much bigger disadvantage than doing the same at 197.  Kyle freaking Snyder is a high bar for measurement and heavyweight has bigger variations in size (and fewer eligible participants) than other weights where the depth of competitive wrestlers goes much further.

I would argue giving up 60 pounds to a man that’s 275 is more difficult to handle than being 120 and wrestling someone that’s 130 

[flyingcement]

17 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

I would argue giving up 60 pounds to a man that’s 275 is more difficult to handle than being 120 and wrestling someone that’s 130 

This post sounds like you didn't read mine.  Or at least it doesn't make sense as a response without further explanation 

[RandolphTJones]

12 hours ago, flyingcement said:

No

I'd say yes. I don't think there is a clear cut favorite at 125 this year. 

[Gus]

7 hours ago, Antitroll2828 said:

I would argue giving up 60 pounds to a man that’s 275 is more difficult to handle than being 120 and wrestling someone that’s 130 

If that were the case you would have more undersized 125 pounders succeeding than undersized heavyweights - which is not the case. Last year a 220 pound Payton Pitzer beat a full sized heavyweight AA in Cohlton Shultz as a recent example.

[Pinnacle]

On 8/23/2023 at 7:38 AM, nhs67 said:

Kurt McHenry has a legitimate chance to start for them this season.

Ryan Howard has done nothing that should convince anyone otherwise.

Also incoming true frosh Braeden Davis (really any of their four lightweight true frosh) as well as incumbent starter Gary Steen are both well in the conversation to be the starter by season's end.

If they have a hole, it is at 125lbs.

It would help your argument if you would at least get the wrestler's name right. Ryan Howard was a baseball player. Robert Howard is the wrestler that you think has done nothing to convince anyone he could start at Penn State even though he has started for them in the past. 

[1032004]

On 8/23/2023 at 9:41 AM, nhs67 said:

125 - Howard, McHenry, Sheen, Davis (other frosh) - Wrestler by committee.  Let the best wrestler wrestle, period.  If a true frosh comes in and blows everyone out of the water... let him go.

 

I don't know much about Davis, but Steen has no shot to start if Howard is healthy.  McHenry may have an outside shot, but Howard should be the clear favorite to start and in his limited action in 2021 did have some pretty good wins (especially for a true freshman coming off injury at the time).

[nhs67]

52 minutes ago, Pinnacle said:

It would help your argument if you would at least get the wrestler's name right. Ryan Howard was a baseball player. Robert Howard is the wrestler that you think has done nothing to convince anyone he could start at Penn State even though he has started for them in the past. 

Potato, Tomato.

A duck is a duck and you have done nothing to convince me otherwise, regardless of what case you are trying to make.  Everyone knew I meant Robert even if I made the mistake of saying Ryan.

He started and did what?

They are both 0.500 against common opponents in Heinselman and Medley.  McHenry holds a 12-6 all-time collegiate record where Howard holds a 7-6 all-time collegiate record.  They are comparable.

The biggest IF in this entire scenario is IF Howard is healthy.  It could easily be argued that because of McHenry's lack of size and comparable results that he is a better wrestler.  I won't make that argument.  I will simply state that they are on the same level due to their actual results right now.

20 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

 

I don't know much about Davis, but Steen has no shot to start if Howard is healthy.  McHenry may have an outside shot, but Howard should be the clear favorite to start and in his limited action in 2021 did have some pretty good wins (especially for a true freshman coming off injury at the time).

I have high hopes for Davis, although I think he may never see 125.  That should be taken with a grain of sand.  Using any of the four true frosh down around that weight would be more apt, I think.

As far as Steen goes?  If Howard is injured (still)... which he has spent more time injured than he hasn't... and McHenry doesn't adjust well to the room... I think there is action to be had there.  I do agree though, that if Howard is healthy he is the clear option now.  They wouldn't have brought in McHenry if he was the clear option, though... I assume.

[1032004]

4 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

 

They are both 0.500 against common opponents in Heinselman and Medley.  McHenry holds a 12-6 all-time collegiate record where Howard holds a 7-6 all-time collegiate record.  They are comparable.

The biggest IF in this entire scenario is IF Howard is healthy.  It could easily be argued that because of McHenry's lack of size and comparable results that he is a better wrestler.  I won't make that argument.  I will simply state that they are on the same level due to their actual results right now.

 

Disagree.

 

Howard losses: McKee (AA), Lamont (AA), DeAugustino (AA), Barnett (AA), Heinselman x2 (4x NQ) who he also beat

Howard quality wins: Ragusin (R12), Shawver (R16), Medley (R16), Heinselman, Gutierrez (3x NQ)

 

McHenry's losses last season: Figueroa (AA), Cronin (AA), Gonzales (DNQ), Mauger (DNQ)

McHenry quality wins: Babin (R16), Medley (R16), Ferri (NQ)

 

They both have limited resumes for sure, but it's not that arguable that Howard's is better.    Howard has a bit better wins, but much better losses.  4 of 6 losses are to AA's and the other 2 are to a 4x NQ that he also beat.

[Antitroll2828]

9 hours ago, flyingcement said:

This post sounds like you didn't read mine.  Or at least it doesn't make sense as a response without further explanation 

I read your response , I’m just disagreeing with you , My argument was I think it’s more difficult to give up 50-60 pounds then 10-12 an undersized 125 may give up 

[Antitroll2828]

21 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

 

Disagree.

 

Howard losses: McKee (AA), Lamont (AA), DeAugustino (AA), Barnett (AA), Heinselman x2 (4x NQ) who he also beat

Howard quality wins: Ragusin (R12), Shawver (R16), Medley (R16), Heinselman, Gutierrez (3x NQ)

 

McHenry's losses last season: Figueroa (AA), Cronin (AA), Gonzales (DNQ), Mauger (DNQ)

McHenry quality wins: Babin (R16), Medley (R16), Ferri (NQ)

 

They both have limited resumes for sure, but it's not that arguable that Howard's is better.    Howard has a bit better wins, but much better losses.  4 of 6 losses are to AA's and the other 2 are to a 4x NQ that he also beat.

Also all of Howard’s results are as true freshman  during the Covid pandemic and coming off of arthroscopic surgery on his shoulder so he didn’t train that whole summer prior , not to mention he was young and had just turned 18 after he got to college , mchenry results are spread out over 3 years of being in one the best rooms in the country and he was still losing to back ups last season