Gable Vs Saduleav

[Doublehalf]

Ok what do you think? Is Gable just too big for him? Is Saduleav the best ever and he'd take it to Gable? Would they need to meet at a catch weigh to make it interesting???

[Cherkov]

3 minutes ago, Doublehalf said:

Ok what do you think? Is Gable just too big for him? Is Saduleav the best ever and he'd take it to Gable? Would they need to meet at a catch weigh to make it interesting???

I don't understand that reasoning. I think of weight classes as a tool to let more people participate. If you really want to know who is better, make it open weight and let them come with whatever they feel best at. 

[Pa in Taiwan]

16 minutes ago, Doublehalf said:

Ok what do you think? Is Gable just too big for him? Is Saduleav the best ever and he'd take it to Gable? Would they need to meet at a catch weigh to make it interesting???

125kg = 275 pounds

97kg = 213 pounds

Gable is a full 125 kg. Sadulaev is by far the most accomplished and successful active wrestler. He could not compete with another great wrestler so much heavier. Please review the YouTube videos of Snyder going in the room with Akgul from Turkey. Snyder is a great wrestler. He was ragdolled.

Let's see if Gable Steveson can get by Zare. Let's see if he can beat Geno again. 

These fantasy matches will never happen, and they shouldn't. 

 

[bnwtwg]

The only transitive property we have is Snyder vs. Akgul while Snyder was the P4P king and Snyder was having a real bad time according to the limited footage that exists. It's the whole "weight classes exist for a reason, especially with the big boys" argument at the highest level.

So by very flawed logic we have

A) Akgul > Snyder

B) Steveson > Akgul

C) Snyder > Sadulaev - this would prove to be a temporary statement. It is saying that when this video was posted in 2018 Snyder was still riding high off his 2017 title over Sadulaev which we all know permanently changed a few months later and Snyder has been degraded to "only" the world silver medalist to Sadulaev. It means nothing yet everything to this exercise. But the point is that at the time of this video, the #1 97kg and world P4P champ was getting rocked by the then (2017 silver) #2 125kg.

Flawed result: Size matters. But neither Sad or Steveson would take a shot so it would come down to who was able to survive to the second passivity and pushouts. If Steveson went down for whatever reason I would fear for his life because we found out he has a bit of trouble with a world class gut, and the Russian Tank has the best gut in the world.

Likely outcome? Steveson.

The would anyone be surprised because holy crap this man is actually a terminator sent back in time outcome? Sadulaev.

 

[mspart]

That guy is a giant!!   He's huge!!   Makes Snyder look small.   That was a good video to watch thanks.

mspart

[nhs67]

That Akgul was five years younger than the version Parrisdaddy smoked.

Sadulaev is the greatest wrestler on thr planet.  He would beat Steveson.

[Plasmodium]

I'm rather see Steveson and Zare.

[DJT]

1 hour ago, Plasmodium said:

I'm rather see Steveson and Zare.

I totally read that as Steveson vs Zain and wondered what Zain ever did to piss you off so much to wish that upon him.

[bnwtwg]

18 hours ago, nhs67 said:

That Akgul was five years younger than the version Parrisdaddy smoked.

Sadulaev is the greatest wrestler on thr planet.  He would beat Steveson.

I have learned two things: never bet against Sadulaev and never bet against Steveson. One could only hope, given that Sadulaev is now going against time rather than medals, that if Steveson wins another title in '23 then a properly motivated Sadulaev [if Russia is allowed] goes up to 125 for '24 Paris Olympics

[Cherkov]

On 5/6/2023 at 4:25 PM, bnwtwg said:

I have learned two things: never bet against Sadulaev and never bet against Steveson. One could only hope, given that Sadulaev is now going against time rather than medals, that if Steveson wins another title in '23 then a properly motivated Sadulaev [if Russia is allowed] goes up to 125 for '24 Paris Olympics

He is up against both. He is still on track to pass world level, but he is almost certainly never going to be the most decorated continentally.

[Threadkilla]

On 5/5/2023 at 10:26 PM, Plasmodium said:

I'm rather see Steveson and Zare.

Parris pinned Zare in the Junior World Finals in 2019

 

 

[nhs67]

14 minutes ago, Threadkilla said:

Parris pinned Zare in the Junior World Finals in 2019

 

 

That Parris was ~20-30lbs lighter than what we have now.  That was immediately after his True Frosh season. 

He beat Thor Hillger 2-1 in the best if three that year to make the team.  Aside for his 5th place finish season, he has never stopped improving and we all know that season was because he had a pretty severe spine injury.

[nhs67]

That Zare is also considerably smaller than he is now, too.

[Pa in Taiwan]

51 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

That Zare is also considerably smaller than he is now, too.

Not only is today's Zare considerably bigger than the 2019 version, he is more importantly much more experienced and successful on the senior men's circuit. After the loss to Mason Parris in 2019, he had a pretty good year. He won gold in the 2019 U23 World Championships, then beat Geno Petriashvili 15-11 in a match in the Iranian Premier League. He won bronze in the 2019 Alans International, teching Nick Gwiz 10-0 in the bronze medal match. In 2020 he won gold in the Matteo Pellicone Ranking Series, and another gold in 2021 at the Poland opening, again beating Gwiz (6-1 DQ). I can only imagine that Gwiz got DQed after too many cautions for backing out of bounds. Zare is a force to be reckoned with regarding his forward pressure, especially with his current size and strength. He gave back a match to Geno in the Olympics (6-3), where he won bronze.  In 2021 he won the World Championships, teching Gwiz (10-0), beating Akgul (4-0), and then beating Geno soundly in the finals (9-2). In the  2022 World Championships, he lost to Taha Akgul 4-2, coming up short with a bronze medal. 

Zare is among an elite few at heavyweight on the senior men's circuit. He is only 22 years old, so I expect him to win a lot of gold medals in the future. A match with Steveson would be excellent. It would pit two of the greatest young heavyweights against each other. Zare seems to have a gas tank. It's time to forget the Junior World's fluke against Paris and focus on the Zare of today. I mean there aren't many casting doubt towards Gable Steveson's abilities due to his 2019 loss to Cassar. 

 

 

[nhs67]

18 minutes ago, Pa in Taiwan said:

Not only is today's Zare considerably bigger than the 2019 version, he is more importantly much more experienced and successful on the senior men's circuit. After the loss to Mason Parris in 2019, he had a pretty good year. He won gold in the 2019 U23 World Championships, then beat Geno Petriashvili 15-11 in a match in the Iranian Premier League. He won bronze in the 2019 Alans International, teching Nick Gwiz 10-0 in the bronze medal match. In 2020 he won gold in the Matteo Pellicone Ranking Series, and another gold in 2021 at the Poland opening, again beating Gwiz (6-1 DQ). I can only imagine that Gwiz got DQed after too many cautions for backing out of bounds. Zare is a force to be reckoned with regarding his forward pressure, especially with his current size and strength. He gave back a match to Geno in the Olympics (6-3), where he won bronze.  In 2021 he won the World Championships, teching Gwiz (10-0), beating Akgul (4-0), and then beating Geno soundly in the finals (9-2). In the  2022 World Championships, he lost to Taha Akgul 4-2, coming up short with a bronze medal. 

Zare is among an elite few at heavyweight on the senior men's circuit. He is only 22 years old, so I expect him to win a lot of gold medals in the future. A match with Steveson would be excellent. It would pit two of the greatest young heavyweights against each other. Zare seems to have a gas tank. It's time to forget the Junior World's fluke against Paris and focus on the Zare of today. I mean there aren't many casting doubt towards Gable Steveson's abilities due to his 2019 loss to Cassar. 

 

 

It wasn't a fluke and it is also time to stop calling it that too. 

It isn't like he was down 8-0 and got a lucky pin like Guilford did against Welker.

It was 1-1 before the dump and Parris (two 'r's - respect the name) then continued to hold him there while adjusting his position three times.

Both are much bigger and stronger and both are lethal right now.

[Pa in Taiwan]

10 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

It wasn't a fluke and it is also time to stop calling it that too. 

It isn't like he was down 8-0 and got a lucky pin like Guilford did against Welker.

It was 1-1 before the dump and Parris (two 'r's - respect the name) then continued to hold him there while adjusting his position three times.

Both are much bigger and stronger and both are lethal right now.

Who are both? Both Zare and Parris? or Zare and Steveson?

I don't see Mason Parris beating Geno or Akgul right now, especially in light of how easily Steveson dispatched him at the US Open.

Zare has beaten both. 

I see Zare as the heavyweight with the greatest chance to beat Steveson. I believe that Geno could also beat Steveson. I don't see Parris with a shot of beating Steveson.

This is the Zare I'm talking about.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[nhs67]

27 minutes ago, Pa in Taiwan said:

Who are both? Both Zare and Parris? or Zare and Steveson?

I don't see Mason Parris beating Geno or Akgul right now, especially in light of how easily Steveson dispatched him at the US Open.

Zare has beaten both. 

I see Zare as the heavyweight with the greatest chance to beat Steveson. I believe that Geno could also beat Steveson. I don't see Parris with a shot of beating Steveson.

This is the Zare I'm talking about.

 

 

 

 

 

 

All that is fine... Steveson dispatched Akgul how easily at the Olympics?  Add two years to Akgul.  Parris definitely gives him match.

Also, ignore it all you want... Parris beat Zare.

Also, didn't Zare just lose during some club season?  He isn't invincible.

[Threadkilla]

32 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

All that is fine... Steveson dispatched Akgul how easily at the Olympics?  Add two years to Akgul.  Parris definitely gives him match.

Also, ignore it all you want... Parris beat Zare.

Also, didn't Zare just lose during some club season?  He isn't invincible.

Akgul also beat Zare in the world semis last year on the way to his 3rd world championship.  

[jross]

Steveson's move on Geno for no points right at the first-period whistle...

 

[Threadkilla]

38 minutes ago, jross said:

Steveson's move on Geno for no points right at the first-period whistle...

 

They only scored a pushout but I think he sent a message.   The last 13 seconds of the match was legendary with 2 takedowns.     He's lucky the ref stood them back up at 6.5.   He won it with .3 on the clock. 

[Pa in Taiwan]

2 hours ago, nhs67 said:

Parris beat Zare.

No doubt about it. And it wasn't a fluke. It was Parris's day. 

I would say that in the interim, Zare has been wrestling with the big boys, though, while Parris was beating up on NCAA heavyweights. Now I like watching NCAA heavies, Cass, Kerk, Parris, as much as the next guy. But they're just not the same caliber as the heavies on the senior men's circuit. I'm not saying that Zare is invincible. I'm saying that he has the best chance of giving Steveson a loss. Parris against Akgul is a fantasy match. Parris will not be representing the US on the senior men's circuit unless Steveson stops wrestling. 

 

[nhs67]

7 minutes ago, Pa in Taiwan said:

No doubt about it. And it wasn't a fluke. It was Parris's day. 

I would say that in the interim, Zare has been wrestling with the big boys, though, while Parris was beating up on NCAA heavyweights. Now I like watching NCAA heavies, Cass, Kerk, Parris, as much as the next guy. But they're just not the same caliber as the heavies on the senior men's circuit. I'm not saying that Zare is invincible. I'm saying that he has the best chance of giving Steveson a loss. Parris against Akgul is a fantasy match. Parris will not be representing the US on the senior men's circuit unless Steveson stops wrestling. 

Despite me being the President, Vice President, CFO, CEO, and Captain of the Cheerleading Squad of the Parris Fanclub I also understand this as true.

I also understand it to be that no other country will be winning Gold unless Steveson stops wrestling, not just Parris.

The only three ways that isn't true is if Steveson somehow gets injured, whatever Worlds/Olympics are that year get altogether cancelled, or Sadulaev goes 125 KG and is in the bracket (GUY LOOKS THICCC).

[bnwtwg]

1 hour ago, Threadkilla said:

They only scored a pushout but I think he sent a message.   The last 13 seconds of the match was legendary with 2 takedowns.     He's lucky the ref stood them back up at 6.5.   He won it with .3 on the clock. 

Now do the part where Steveson didn’t get 4 for amplitude and was only granted 1, and Eggum didn’t challenge because until the world-class guts happened Steveson was in cruise control.

[bnwtwg]

4 hours ago, Pa in Taiwan said:

Not only is today's Zare considerably bigger than the 2019 version, he is more importantly much more experienced and successful on the senior men's circuit. After the loss to Mason Parris in 2019, he had a pretty good year. He won gold in the 2019 U23 World Championships, then beat Geno Petriashvili 15-11 in a match in the Iranian Premier League. He won bronze in the 2019 Alans International, teching Nick Gwiz 10-0 in the bronze medal match. In 2020 he won gold in the Matteo Pellicone Ranking Series, and another gold in 2021 at the Poland opening, again beating Gwiz (6-1 DQ). I can only imagine that Gwiz got DQed after too many cautions for backing out of bounds. Zare is a force to be reckoned with regarding his forward pressure, especially with his current size and strength. He gave back a match to Geno in the Olympics (6-3), where he won bronze.  In 2021 he won the World Championships, teching Gwiz (10-0), beating Akgul (4-0), and then beating Geno soundly in the finals (9-2). In the  2022 World Championships, he lost to Taha Akgul 4-2, coming up short with a bronze medal. 

Zare is among an elite few at heavyweight on the senior men's circuit. He is only 22 years old, so I expect him to win a lot of gold medals in the future. A match with Steveson would be excellent. It would pit two of the greatest young heavyweights against each other. Zare seems to have a gas tank. It's time to forget the Junior World's fluke against Paris and focus on the Zare of today. I mean there aren't many casting doubt towards Gable Steveson's abilities due to his 2019 loss to Cassar. 

 

 

Are we doing transitive property for matches? Because Akgul was *on his way to getting teched by Steveson before he shut down entirely early in the second.

Zare and Steveson are polar opposites in their styles and styles make matches. Brute vs slick. Underhook pushouts vs reattacks. Singles vs Iran ankle picks.

All I know is that Steveson will be a random draw and will get 2/3 once again.

Edited May 14, 2023 by bnwtwg
autocorrect

[Pa in Taiwan]

41 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

I also understand it to be that no other country will be winning Gold unless Steveson stops wrestling

This is a point that we disagree on. I think Zare and Geno could both hand Steveson a loss. Gable looked great at the US Open, but he is not knows for being consistent, and he will be facing a long list of good opponents. He could win it all, but I wouldn't put it in such strong terms as you have done here. I mean he beat Geno with two clutch takedowns in a handful of seconds, a match that could have gone either way. He has also been away from wrestling for a year, though you couldn't tell that from the US Open. There's no doubt that the World Championships are a large step up from the US Open.