All the big name transfers to Penn State did NOT take the highest NIL offer

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

So it seems that NIL isn't destroying the sport as some may be saying...in actuality it may be leveling the playing field for other teams (e.g. Iowa offers a transfer 5x what Penn State offers and the transfer ends up taking the money because it's just too much to refuse).

Without NIL there's no way for other teams to entice transfers with a giant bag of cash who would otherwise want to go to the best wrestling program in the country.

So I'd argue that for everyone OTHER than Penn State (or whoever the top team is), NIL is a good thing.

[Twooooo]

BUT he still took NIL money.  He didn’t not take it so one could argue that because of NIL it helped him out of the door at Minnesota.  Without the portal and NIL would he have considered transferring?

[ionel]

14 hours ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

So it seems that NIL isn't destroying the sport as some may be saying...in actuality it may be leveling the playing field for other teams (e.g. Iowa offers a transfer 5x what Penn State offers and the transfer ends up taking the money because it's just too much to refuse).

Without NIL there's no way for other teams to entice transfers with a giant bag of cash who would otherwise want to go to the best wrestling program in the country.

So I'd argue that for everyone OTHER than Penn State (or whoever the top team is), NIL is a good thing.

Source?

How much did they take?

What "image" type requirements?

Who offered the money and how?

We know you've got the inside info Jimmy so spell the beans!

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

12 minutes ago, Twooooo said:

BUT he still took NIL money.  He didn’t not take it so one could argue that because of NIL it helped him out of the door at Minnesota.  Without the portal and NIL would he have considered transferring?

Yes.  God told him to renege on his commitment.  God is not interested in NIL.  

[VakAttack]

*they say they didn't take biggest NIL offer.  Now, I wouldn't say it's improbable that the three biggest transfers on the market all went to the same school AND took a discount.  It's certainly possible that Penn State's excellence got them a discount on the bag, but they do have reason to not be entirely truthful. But.even if they did take a discount, they still took a bag.  And I don't think there's anything wrong with that!  Nor do I fault them for going to Penn State, even though I think on the whole the poaching is bad for the sport.  People matter more, so while I don't like either option (kids movements are restricted and the sport stays more viable vs. kids can move more freely and capitalistically and the sport suffers because smaller programs lose athletes/become feeder programs) I would side with the individual having the same rights as everybody and the ability to make money like everybody else.

[Wrestleknownothing]

5 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Yes.  God told him to renege on his commitment.  God is not interested in NIL.  

I am bothered by the phrase renege on his commitment.

All of these commitments are contingent in both directions. He can lose his scholarship, he can be recruited over, the coach can leave or be fired, and probably more scenarios that I can not think of. There is a long history of schools and coaches doing what is best for them, but not best for the individual athlete. Why should the athlete not consider what is best for him? Hell, this board has a field day when PSU recruits over an athlete. We even coined "getting Nevilled".

It never ceases to amaze me that people are so bothered by symmetry. Or maybe it is change. I don't know.

[Wrestleknownothing]

1 minute ago, VakAttack said:

*they say they didn't take biggest NIL offer.  Now, I wouldn't say it's improbable that the three biggest transfers on the market all went to the same school AND took a discount.  It's certainly possible that Penn State's excellence got them a discount on the bag, but they do have reason to not be entirely truthful. But.even if they did take a discount, they still took a bag.  And I don't think there's anything wrong with that!  Nor do I fault them for going to Penn State, even though I think on the whole the poaching is bad for the sport.  People matter more, so while I don't like either option (kids movements are restricted and the sport stays more viable vs. kids can move more freely and capitalistically and the sport suffers because smaller programs lose athletes/become feeder programs) I would side with the individual having the same rights as everybody and the ability to make money like everybody else.

And what does it even mean to take the biggest NIL number? I think these things probably have a headline number akin to a headline number for an NFL contract. But over time we have changed how we talk about NFL contracts to also include the amount that is actually guaranteed. My guess is these NIL deals are all headline and no guarantee when it comes to wrestlers. 

[ionel]

4 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

. We even coined "getting Nevilled".

It never ceases to amaze me that people are so bothered by symmetry. Or maybe it is change. I don't know.

Wkn - its all about the symmetry, pinfalls & Nevillism.   

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

Hypothetical - before NIL:

A wrestler wants to transfer and he's courted by Penn State, Iowa and Ohio State.  He ends up picking Penn State because he just watched them win NCAAs by 55 points and wants to win a team title and maximize his own chances of winning an individual title.

Hypothetical - after NIL:

A wrestler wants to transfer and he's courted by Penn State, Iowa and Ohio State.  Penn State offers NIL $50,000.  Iowa offers NIL $150,000.  Ohio State offers NIL $100,000. He ends up picking Penn State because he just watched them win NCAAs by 55 points and wants to win a team title and maximize his own chances of winning an individual title.

 

Now tell me again why adding NIL in this situation is ruining wrestling?

 

Here is a hypothetical where one might argue NIL is ruining wrestling:

A University of Florida alum wins $2 billion via Powerball and decides to donate $100,000,000 for the Gators to create a new D1 wrestling program.  The new UF wrestling program offers $1,000,000 NIL deals to entice former NCAA champs to join their program.  Suddenly their roster gains 10 former NCAA champs who all couldn't say no to $1,000,000.

Edited April 26, 2023 by Jimmy Cinnabon

[Wrestleknownothing]

3 minutes ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

 

 

Now tell me again why adding NIL in this situation is ruining wrestling?

Why? It's all hypothetical.

[JVStateChamp]

5 minutes ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Now tell me again why adding NIL in this situation is ruining wrestling?

I do not think the argument that NIL is ruining wrestling is a completely fair argument, I think the combination of the Transfer Portal and NIL developing at the same time has turned recruiting into the wild wild west. Eventually, this may trickle down on high school recruiting where college coaches do not want to commit to a high school prospect but instead, save their resources for the transfer portal and take their chance at an already established wrestler. Is this good for the sport of wrestling? 

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

6 minutes ago, JVStateChamp said:

I do not think the argument that NIL is ruining wrestling is a completely fair argument, I think the combination of the Transfer Portal and NIL developing at the same time has turned recruiting into the wild wild west. Eventually, this may trickle down on high school recruiting where college coaches do not want to commit to a high school prospect but instead, save their resources for the transfer portal and take their chance at an already established wrestler. Is this good for the sport of wrestling? 

In my view, people should have a bigger beef with the Transfer Portal, period.  If you want to avoid "poaching" and "reneging" you should argue that transfers should not be allowed or are only allowed for graduates.

NIL, in my view, actually counterbalances the Transfer Portal since a school that is not the most attractive in terms of athletic potential (like Penn State for wrestlers) can win over a prized recruit by offering more money.  To use a football example, suppose Georgia lands all the 5 star recruits in the state because they've been dominating NCAA football and producing the most 1st round NFL draft picks.  Georgia Tech has no shot to win these recruits solely on their NCAA success and NFL potential but they are able to offer more NIL money than Georgia and thus manage to snag some of these 5 star recruits.

Edited April 26, 2023 by Jimmy Cinnabon

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

28 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

I am bothered by the phrase renege on his commitment.

All of these commitments are contingent in both directions. He can lose his scholarship, he can be recruited over, the coach can leave or be fired, and probably more scenarios that I can not think of. There is a long history of schools and coaches doing what is best for them, but not best for the individual athlete. Why should the athlete not consider what is best for him? Hell, this board has a field day when PSU recruits over an athlete. We even coined "getting Nevilled".

It never ceases to amaze me that people are so bothered by symmetry. Or maybe it is change. I don't know.

I'm not bothered by the term "renege."  It is exactly what he did.  100%.  

At the same time, I believe that he should have the right to renege, for exactly the reasons that you mention.  Freedom for athletes is a good thing.

He still went back on an agreement.  RENEGED.

I guess we are bothered by different things.  My issue is Nagao saying that the process of  breaking his commitment made his a "better man" and that God told him to go to PSU.  Just be honest, bro.  Admit you wanted the money and and a better situation than Minnesota.

[JVStateChamp]

5 minutes ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

NIL, in my view, actually counterbalances the Transfer Portal since a school that is not the most attractive in terms of athletic potential (like Penn State for wrestlers) can win over a prized recruit by offering more money. 

I agree with the viewpoint of the transfer portal being more of an issue. With your point of NIL counterbalances the Transfer Portal in theory that is an appropriate assumption and conclusion to come to. In reality, more specifically wrestling than football the other schools like Lock Haven, George Mason, etc. do not have the funding or athletic support compared to those of a PSU, Michigan, Penn State, even NC State. To argue that NIL will balance transfers is unrealistic the mid-majors are already fundraising just to raise money that the school does not give their program. But with this being said I do not have a solution to this off-balance of power as it is above my intellectual level LOL

[ionel]

9 minutes ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

In my view, people should have a bigger beef with the Transfer Portal, period.  If you want to avoid "poaching" and "reneging" you should argue that transfers should not be allowed or are only allowed for graduates.

NIL, in my view, actually counterbalances the Transfer Portal since a school that is not the most attractive in terms of athletic potential (like Penn State for wrestlers) can win over a prized recruit by offering more money.  To use a football example, suppose Georgia lands all the 5 star recruits in the state because they've been dominating NCAA football and producing the most 1st round NFL draft picks.  Georgia Tech has no shot to win these recruits solely on their NCAA success and NFL potential but they are able to offer more NIL money than Georgia and thus manage to snag some of these 5 star recruits.

Well first, whether its FB, BB or wrestling, NIL was not supposed to be a recruiting tool.  Its against NCAA rules the way its being used but we all predicted this because the NCAA couldn't keep up with enforcement before this cat jumped out of the bag.

[JVStateChamp]

2 minutes ago, ionel said:

Well first, whether its FB, BB or wrestling, NIL was not supposed to be a recruiting tool.  Its against NCAA rules the way its being used but we all predicted this because the NCAA couldn't keep up with enforcement before this cat jumped out of the bag.

My viewpoint is that you are correct that NIL is not supposed to be used as a recruiting tool and many predicted that this would become a big issue once NIL came into fruition, but let's not act like the NCAA did not know this either. NCAA was getting scrutinized by everyone for not allowing NCAA athletes to get any money for their name, image, and likeness. Then they allow it and are being scrutinized because its because used as a recruiting tactic. Cannot have it both way and I understand this goes way beyond wrestling and wrestlers are in reality a very small fish in a big pond in terms of NIL money.

[Dogbone]

Nagao like every transfer before didn't do it for the money.

The next transfer to publicly state that they transferred for "the bag" will be the first. 

For some reason, every fan of the team receiving a transfers believes it 100%.   

That doesn't mean that PSU isn't getting guys because they are unquestionably the best program right now.   They also aren't telling guys, no money for you, you come here to develop and be the best you can be... 

[Offthemat]

The way I understand it, NIL can be raised or offered to any athlete at any time.  So any of the interested parties of the current school could offer NIL to match or better what is available to the athlete if he transfers. 

[JVStateChamp]

5 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

The way I understand it, NIL can be raised or offered to any athlete at any time.  So any of the interested parties of the current school could offer NIL to match or better what is available to the athlete if he transfers. 

The way I understand NIL which I may be completely wrong so I will admit that if this is not correct, but in my interpretation, NIL was made for an athlete to promote themselves using their face or name such as host wrestling camps, do individuals with their names and post it on whatever platform they desire or have a company use their name or face to promote a product. I did not believe it was intended to be used for an athlete to say school X offered me $10,000 NIL can you match or exceed that offer?

[Offthemat]

2 minutes ago, JVStateChamp said:

The way I understand NIL which I may be completely wrong so I will admit that if this is not correct, but in my interpretation, NIL was made for an athlete to promote themselves using their face or name such as host wrestling camps, do individuals with their names and post it on whatever platform they desire or have a company use their name or face to promote a product. I did not believe it was intended to be used for an athlete to say school X offered me $10,000 NIL can you match or exceed that offer?

That’s my understanding as well, but we also can see how it’s actually working.  If the local dealership/outlet offers money to appear and sign autographs, it’s pretty easy to understand that this won’t be available if you’re not in the area.  

[1032004]

1 hour ago, VakAttack said:

*they say they didn't take biggest NIL offer.  Now, I wouldn't say it's improbable that the three biggest transfers on the market all went to the same school AND took a discount.  It's certainly possible that Penn State's excellence got them a discount on the bag, but they do have reason to not be entirely truthful. But.even if they did take a discount, they still took a bag.  And I don't think there's anything wrong with that!  

 

Agree with this.  I feel like some people are taking these transfers to mean PSU doesn’t have to offer anything, which is unlikely.     I’m not sure how these Iowa “bag” numbers keep getting out but no one knows anything about PSU’s “bags.”    I guess Cael knows to tell people not to talk to Mineo

[ionel]

19 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

The way I understand it, NIL can be raised or offered to any athlete at any time.  So any of the interested parties of the current school could offer NIL to match or better what is available to the athlete if he transfers. 

So you are saying univ X could offer a high school kid C $1M per year and say "if you come we will find/raise the money."  C could say to Y that X offered $1M/yr can you go $1.5M?  Y says "sure" so C goes to Y.   Nothing wrong with that?

[Offthemat]

3 minutes ago, ionel said:

So you are saying univ X could offer a high school kid C $1M per year and say "if you come we will find/raise the money."  C could say to Y that X offered $1M/yr can you go $1.5M?  Y says "sure" so C goes to Y.   Nothing wrong with that?

No.  I’m saying Elmer is a good wrestler after two seasons at XSU and he enters the portal.  It is possible for a businessman from the city XSU is in to say “if you show up at my place on a certain day next winter and sign autographs, there’ll be money in it for you.”  Kid knows that if he transfers away he can’t make that commitment.  

[82bordeaux]

4 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

No.  I’m saying Elmer is a good wrestler after two seasons at XSU and he enters the portal.  It is possible for a businessman from the city XSU is in to say “if you show up at my place on a certain day next winter and sign autographs, there’ll be money in it for you.”  Kid knows that if he transfers away he can’t make that commitment.  

Maybe Elmer should buy a plane ticket and just show up. I'm ready to sign autographs sir!

[Offthemat]

He’s got a match that prevents him from making it. 

7 minutes ago, 82bordeaux said:

Maybe Elmer should buy a plane ticket and just show up. I'm ready to sign autographs sir!

That money can be offered to stay as well as transfer. 

Edited April 26, 2023 by Offthemat