LJB Posted March 16, 2023 Posted March 16, 2023 1 hour ago, mspart said: He knew the risks. Whether pot should or shouldn't be illegal, is not the issue. It is illegal to use. Therefore, he was not too serious about being in competition or is addicted and can't stop. Either way it is a problem. mspart no one is addicted to marijuana... not anymore than anyone is addicted to cheeseburgers anyway... but the point is concrete... the rules are the rules no matter what your own personal feelings may or may not be... want to compete then follow them... 1
mspart Posted March 16, 2023 Posted March 16, 2023 https://nida.nih.gov/publications/research-reports/marijuana/marijuana-addictive Marijuana use disorders are often associated with dependence—in which a person feels withdrawal symptoms when not taking the drug. People who use marijuana frequently often report irritability, mood and sleep difficulties, decreased appetite, cravings, restlessness, and/or various forms of physical discomfort that peak within the first week after quitting and last up to 2 weeks.20,21 Marijuana dependence occurs when the brain adapts to large amounts of the drug by reducing production of and sensitivity to its own endocannabinoid neurotransmitters. https://www.cdc.gov/marijuana/health-effects/addiction.html Some people who use marijuana will develop marijuana use disorder, meaning that they are unable to stop using marijuana even though it’s causing health and social problems in their lives. One study estimated that approximately 3 in 10 people who use marijuana have marijuana use disorder.1 Another study estimated that people who use cannabis have about a 10% likelihood of becoming addicted.2 The risk of developing marijuana use disorder is greater in people who start using marijuana during youth or adolescence and who use marijuana more frequently.3 Say again? I disagree with your first two points. Agree with your last 3 points. mspart
LJB Posted March 16, 2023 Posted March 16, 2023 3 minutes ago, mspart said: https://nida.nih.gov/publications/research-reports/marijuana/marijuana-addictive Marijuana use disorders are often associated with dependence—in which a person feels withdrawal symptoms when not taking the drug. People who use marijuana frequently often report irritability, mood and sleep difficulties, decreased appetite, cravings, restlessness, and/or various forms of physical discomfort that peak within the first week after quitting and last up to 2 weeks.20,21 Marijuana dependence occurs when the brain adapts to large amounts of the drug by reducing production of and sensitivity to its own endocannabinoid neurotransmitters. https://www.cdc.gov/marijuana/health-effects/addiction.html Some people who use marijuana will develop marijuana use disorder, meaning that they are unable to stop using marijuana even though it’s causing health and social problems in their lives. One study estimated that approximately 3 in 10 people who use marijuana have marijuana use disorder.1 Another study estimated that people who use cannabis have about a 10% likelihood of becoming addicted.2 The risk of developing marijuana use disorder is greater in people who start using marijuana during youth or adolescence and who use marijuana more frequently.3 Say again? I disagree with your first two points. Agree with your last 3 points. mspart no one becomes physically addicted to marijuana... "use disorder" is a an example of a buzz word created to alleviate responsibility... i really like my morning spicy noodles... same breakfast every morning... when i run out or can't get it i get annoyed and unhappy and edgy and sometimes i get a real grumpy look on my face for the rest of the day... am i addicted to ramen?
LJB Posted March 16, 2023 Posted March 16, 2023 Marijuana use can lead to the development of problem use, known as a marijuana use disorder, which takes the form of addiction in severe cases. no one has to take responsibility for anything anymore...
mspart Posted March 16, 2023 Posted March 16, 2023 1 hour ago, LJB said: Marijuana use can lead to the development of problem use, known as a marijuana use disorder, which takes the form of addiction in severe cases. no one has to take responsibility for anything anymore... Would you say the same for a heroin addict or fentanyl addict? They have a use disorder that takes the form of addiction. Granted pot is not as addictive as those other two, but addiction is dependence and dependence is addiction. When you are dependent, you are physically addicted. Yes you are responsible for it but it is addiction just the same. mspart
Mike Parrish Posted March 16, 2023 Posted March 16, 2023 5 minutes ago, mspart said: Would you say the same for a heroin addict or fentanyl addict? They have a use disorder that takes the form of addiction. Granted pot is not as addictive as those other two, but addiction is dependence and dependence is addiction. When you are dependent, you are physically addicted. Yes you are responsible for it but it is addiction just the same. mspart I'd compare pot to caffeine in terms of addiction persistence. Unpleasant to stop using, but nowhere near strong opiates. Not in the same universe. 2
LJB Posted March 16, 2023 Posted March 16, 2023 absolutely not... opiates are actually physically addictive... marijuana is not physically addictive... just because you are obese and weak and don't want to stop eating cheeseburgers does not mean you are addicted to cheeseburgers... it means you like cheeseburgers more than you want to stop eating them... it is an excuse mentality and is everywhere in this society... 1
LJB Posted March 16, 2023 Posted March 16, 2023 1 minute ago, Mike Parrish said: I'd compare pot to caffeine in terms of addiction persistence. Unpleasant to stop using, but nowhere near strong opiates. Not in the same universe. caffeine is actually physically addictive...
Mike Parrish Posted March 16, 2023 Posted March 16, 2023 https://nida.nih.gov/publications/research-reports/marijuana/marijuana-addictive https://www.addictioncenter.com/stimulants/caffeine/ Compare and contrast.
LJB Posted March 16, 2023 Posted March 16, 2023 caffeine can cause a mild physical dependency... marijuana does not have any physically addictive properties... that is just the reality... all the "safe speak" in the world will not change that... 1
LJB Posted March 16, 2023 Posted March 16, 2023 i can feel this is just going to delve further into semantics territory and i really do not have any real desire to continue down that path... JO was silly... he did not need to get high at trials... he did... that's on him... personally i have mixed feelings on whether or not cannabis should be tested for at all... most professional leagues have it written in their CBA agreements to absolutely not test for marijuana and for what i perceive as a very legitimate reason... if all sports went in that direction it would not bother me in the least... 2
mspart Posted March 16, 2023 Posted March 16, 2023 2 minutes ago, LJB said: i can feel this is just going to delve further into semantics territory and i really do not have any real desire to continue down that path... JO was silly... he did not need to get high at trials... he did... that's on him... personally i have mixed feelings on whether or not cannabis should be tested for at all... most professional leagues have it written in their CBA agreements to absolutely not test for marijuana and for what i perceive as a very legitimate reason... if all sports went in that direction it would not bother me in the least... Or he did it because he has dependence on it. that is on him, just like being addicted to anything is on the individual. You both can debate how powerful of an addiction it might be, but pot can cause dependence which is addiction which I demonstrated above. This all started with Oliver being censured for pot again. He can't quit it appears. So I suggested he either doesn't care or is addicted. If he is addicted, he feels he can't quit. Or if he is addicted, he doesn't really care. Take your pick. But to use prior to a tourney means something. It is not meaningless. Essentially what you are saying is I shouldn't believe CDC or NIDA. They both say the same thing as I demonstrated. Am I to believe you or CDC and NIDA in the realm of addiction and effects of pot? My gut tells me to go with CDC and NIDA. Sorry guys. mspart
LJB Posted March 16, 2023 Posted March 16, 2023 1 minute ago, mspart said: Or he did it because he has dependence on it. that is on him, just like being addicted to anything is on the individual. You both can debate how powerful of an addiction it might be, but pot can cause dependence which is addiction which I demonstrated above. This all started with Oliver being censured for pot again. He can't quit it appears. So I suggested he either doesn't care or is addicted. If he is addicted, he feels he can't quit. Or if he is addicted, he doesn't really care. Take your pick. But to use prior to a tourney means something. It is not meaningless. Essentially what you are saying is I shouldn't believe CDC or NIDA. They both say the same thing as I demonstrated. Am I to believe you or CDC and NIDA in the realm of addiction and effects of pot? My gut tells me to go with CDC and NIDA. Sorry guys. mspart JO popped for an amphetamine the first time... as to the rest... again... whatever... i could go into a big diatribe as to why the language has changed over time and the forces behind that, but, what's the point? as long as we have our "safe speak" and personal accountability is always on a sliding scale then i guess some are happy...
bnwtwg Posted March 16, 2023 Author Posted March 16, 2023 Weed is not addictive. However, the desire to feel non-sober can be addictive. JO should not be suspended for smoking weed. If anything, it harmed his performance. That’s on him and was his choice. I also support that these are the rules of WADA and though outdated, they are still the rules that everyone knows. Anyways, what exactly did Chamizo pop for? I have to think it was something less fun than the devil’s lettuce… 1 i am an idiot on the internet
LJB Posted March 16, 2023 Posted March 16, 2023 5 minutes ago, bnwtwg said: Weed is not addictive. However, the desire to feel non-sober can be addictive. JO should not be suspended for smoking weed. If anything, it harmed his performance. That’s on him and was his choice. I also support that these are the rules of WADA and though outdated, they are still the rules that everyone knows. Anyways, what exactly did Chamizo pop for? I have to think it was something less fun than the devil’s lettuce… 3 months is the shortest suspension i have ever personally heard of... i did not even know 3 months was an option for suspension... clearly he was able to show in some fashion that he did not "knowingly" take something...
bnwtwg Posted March 17, 2023 Author Posted March 17, 2023 3 hours ago, LJB said: 3 months is the shortest suspension i have ever personally heard of... i did not even know 3 months was an option for suspension... clearly he was able to show in some fashion that he did not "knowingly" take something... "I didn't know what was in the brownie! But my scrambling IQ was higher than me!" i am an idiot on the internet
LJB Posted March 17, 2023 Posted March 17, 2023 11 minutes ago, bnwtwg said: "I didn't know what was in the brownie! But my scrambling IQ was higher than me!" i like brownies...
Mike Parrish Posted March 17, 2023 Posted March 17, 2023 4 hours ago, LJB said: 3 months is the shortest suspension i have ever personally heard of... i did not even know 3 months was an option for suspension... clearly he was able to show in some fashion that he did not "knowingly" take something... From USADA, there are a few 1 month suspensions. Quote Alvis, Juancamilo Ronderos Mixed Martial Arts Cocaine 1-Month Suspension 07/29/2021 *Name Removed Karate Pseudoephedrine 1-Month Suspension - Loss of Results *Name Removed Karate Ephedrine 1-Month Suspension - Loss of Results *Name Removed Cycling Ephedrine 1-Month Suspension - Loss of Results Witte, Keiser Weightlifting Cannabinoids 1-Month Suspension; Loss of Results 02/24/2023 Palmer, Ahje Weightlifting Cannabinoids 1-Month Suspension; Loss of Results 03/11/2022 Richardson, Sha'Carri Track and Field Cannabinoids 1-Month Suspension; Loss of Results 07/02/2021 Montgomery, Kahmari Track and Field Cannabinoids 1-Month Suspension; Loss of Results 06/03/2021 Jackson, Tate Swimming Cannabinoids 1-Month Suspension; Loss of Results 04/29/2021 Here are the 3 months suspensions in Wrestling Quote *Name Removed Wrestling Cannabinoids 3-Month Suspension with 3-Month Deferral - Loss of Results *Name Removed Wrestling Metoprolol 3-Month Suspension with 3-Month Deferral - Loss of Results Lee, Stephany Wrestling Cannabinoids 3-Month Suspension with 3-Month Deferral - Loss of Results 05/13/2009 They're rare. I suspect the two with Name Removed are the oldest.
scourge165 Posted March 17, 2023 Posted March 17, 2023 14 hours ago, Mike Parrish said: I'd compare pot to caffeine in terms of addiction persistence. Unpleasant to stop using, but nowhere near strong opiates. Not in the same universe. Yeah...comparing it to opioids and Fentanyl is just WILD.
scourge165 Posted March 17, 2023 Posted March 17, 2023 14 hours ago, bnwtwg said: Weed is not addictive. However, the desire to feel non-sober can be addictive. JO should not be suspended for smoking weed. If anything, it harmed his performance. That’s on him and was his choice. I also support that these are the rules of WADA and though outdated, they are still the rules that everyone knows. Anyways, what exactly did Chamizo pop for? I have to think it was something less fun than the devil’s lettuce… Why do you HAVE to think that? He got a 3 month suspension.
LJB Posted March 17, 2023 Posted March 17, 2023 9 hours ago, Mike Parrish said: From USADA, there are a few 1 month suspensions. Here are the 3 months suspensions in Wrestling They're rare. I suspect the two with Name Removed are the oldest. i am sure there is logical rational behind a one month suspension... just kinda hard to see it from my perspective...
Bigbrog Posted March 17, 2023 Posted March 17, 2023 16 hours ago, LJB said: absolutely not... opiates are actually physically addictive... marijuana is not physically addictive... just because you are obese and weak and don't want to stop eating cheeseburgers does not mean you are addicted to cheeseburgers... it means you like cheeseburgers more than you want to stop eating them... it is an excuse mentality and is everywhere in this society... Will you please quit using me as an example to make a point...hurts my feelings.
LJB Posted March 17, 2023 Posted March 17, 2023 4 minutes ago, Bigbrog said: Will you please quit using me as an example to make a point...hurts my feelings. apologies for the fat shaming, brother... i like cheeseburgers as well... in fact, i am having some regrets not heading to tulsa with the chums where i could have introduced them to Ron's... sausage cheeseburgers that you eat with a fork because no one wants that much grease on their hands... you can even throw some chilli on that b!tch...
Bigbrog Posted March 17, 2023 Posted March 17, 2023 10 minutes ago, LJB said: apologies for the fat shaming, brother... i like cheeseburgers as well... in fact, i am having some regrets not heading to tulsa with the chums where i could have introduced them to Ron's... sausage cheeseburgers that you eat with a fork because no one wants that much grease on their hands... you can even throw some chilli on that b!tch... Oh man...sounds amazing! I am actually on week 3 of Keto to help get rid of these lbs...and actually could probably eat those sausage cheeseburgers...and then throw some chili on it....HEAD...EXPLODE...LOL
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