Immediate u23 overreactions and their potential implications on the collegiate season

[Truzzcat]

Its fun to extrapolate freestyle results into folkstyle but they generally do not hold a ton of weight, for instance duke and Landon's matches were not all that competitive last year and Marcus killed PJ. However there is not much to talk about so lets get into it!

First things first lightning Luke or as he appeared this weekend still very fast but not quite lightning luke. This one actually concerns me a bit simply because I have always viewed him as being a better freestyler not that he is a slouch in folk hes place 1st and 3rd. If the weight cut is an issue getting that last .6 off from 57kg to 125 is not going to help especially doing so all season and in some instances 2 days or at NCAA's 3 days in a row. He is still my pick but I was sort of viewing it as next topic or as much as you can with post Spencer 125, I anticipated he would be in close matches but would just get the job done and my confidence in that is definitely down.

Justin Rademacher needs to stay at heavy. Khaniev beat Snyder 10-4 this year and Magomedov 10-0 he also scored two takedowns on Sadulev. I just do not think you can go life and death with a guy like that regardless of style and not be a national title contender but as we saw last year something definitely happens to Rademacher when he makes the cut down to 197.

IF and I emphasize if because we have seen one guy do it since Stanich and Marcus last year you can slow Bo down he is human. Now how many guys can do that this year at 141? I would say one maybe two if Blaze goes up. I could be taking way too much out of a loss that involved poor decision making at the end but that guy was not the best guy in the field outside of Bo so I am less of the mind that he is simply going to run through everyone this year but I am more than willing to be wrong on that.

If Blaze stays down 133 is far and away the toughest weight. I do not care if it falls off a cliff after Crookham someone could correct me but I think there are 4 guys at that weight that very well may be the 4 best guys in the world excluding Uguev.

PSU may have a depth issue at a few weights. I love Joe sealey and this is not so much about his performance here Chandermohan is good and he was just small but I am assuming he is not getting down to 157 and if he does I wonder how effective he will be, hes seemed to do his best wrestling at 74kg before getting bigger for this tournament. To me they lack guys to step in barring worst case scenarios at 125, 149, 157 two weights with guys with injury histories and one weight where there are beginning to be questions about the weight cut.

would love to hear your guys thoughts on this or anything else or perhaps I am just yapping to yap and none of this matters.

[Tyler Perry]

Luke has had a hard time getting to legs, on top of that, it looks like he’s not trying at times. 2-1 with Marc Anthony McGowan, 2-2 with Darian Cruz, and scored 3 points this weekend.  He’s turning into Eddie Ventresca with less hair at this point 

[1032004]

3 hours ago, Truzzcat said:

 

Justin Rademacher needs to stay at heavy. Khaniev beat Snyder 10-4 this year and Magomedov 10-0 he also scored two takedowns on Sadulev. I just do not think you can go life and death with a guy like that regardless of style and not be a national title contender but as we saw last year something definitely happens to Rademacher when he makes the cut down to 197.

Yup, and he would likely just add to the seemingly endless list of guys who bumped up and did better at heavyweight than at 197.

[WrestlingRash]

Bo is getting closer to bust territory by the day. He will transfer out of VTech soon enough because his results won't come and his parents will want to blame somebody. 

[boconnell]

12 minutes ago, WrestlingRash said:

Bo is getting closer to bust territory by the day. He will transfer out of VTech soon enough because his results won't come and his parents will want to blame somebody. 

The only thing he is getting closer to by the day is the world championships. 

[Tyler Perry]

30 minutes ago, WrestlingRash said:

Bo is getting closer to bust territory by the day. He will transfer out of VTech soon enough because his results won't come and his parents will want to blame somebody. 

It’s going to be hilarious when Bo beats Sujeet

[BruceyB]

57kg: This weekend has me flipped me from Lilledahl > Field to Field > Lilledahl. That is my current overreaction, and we did see Lilledahl lose to Desmond at the Black Knight early last season, so maybe for him it helps to make weight consistently and he will be just fine. But I think he could absolutely be knocked off by a VRob, Ventresca, Spratley, McGowan, or others if he looks even remotely like he did this weekend. 

61kg: I was thinking about it earlier today, and at least over the last 15 years or so, I really think the group of Blaze, Forrest, Davino, and Seidel might legitimately be the most elite top 4 that we have seen. Truzz, you said it. It's possible that 4 of the 5 best 61kg wrestlers in the world are all wrestling 133 in the NCAA right now.

65kg: My only real takeaway from this match is that Bo has to be smarter on the edge. Bo is absolutely better at folk than free right now, and him getting beat tactically on the edge doesn't give me even the slightest bit of concern about how he'll do this season. I do think he and Stanich will be still be a very competitive match.

70kg: JW is JW. I'm honestly not really sure why he was on this team. Weird qualification system (or lack there of) this season. JW is never AAing.

74kg: It's almost impressive how sloppy Jaydin James can get at times and still be so dang good. There is a small part of me that wonders if he'll always have that element to him. I think of some of the elite guys of the past that had a tendency to get a little reckless and give up unnecessary points, and I always thought "Well, they're young. Once they get a little more mature and used to this level, they're going to stop making those mistakes" only to have them pretty much do the same thing throughout their careers. I definitely don't expect that to be the case for Jaydin, but it'll be interesting to watch. He's going to be an absolute menace if he stops giving away easy points. When he decides to go, his attacks are so fast, and so crisp.

79kg: Wtf did a 74kg rep us at a weight he's never wrestled? Joe Seeley is an enigma at this point. No disrespect to Jimmy from Harvard, but Seeley lost to Jimmy from Harvard in the last 12 months and then beat whatever version of David Carr is currently out there. I have no idea who Joe Seeley is as a wrestler.

84kg: I don't really take much from Aoeden's loss considering how he got scored on. He got headlocked twice, and then was dead to rights but stuck with a chest wrap that was never going to work and got put down on his back for a hard 4. I honestly think he was very flustered and not sure what to do after he go hit with a headlock for the second time, and then the wheels really fell off. That being said, with this loss I am definitely not under the impression that Aoeden has made a significant jump and I think we are looking at essentially a repeat of last year where Ferrari could beat anyone in tiebreakers, and everyone of the big 4 could beat each other on any given day.

97kg: I have no idea if the weight is an issue or not for Rademacher, but the fact that he has had this much success on the world level but can't get on the podium at the horrendous weight that is the current 197 makes me think you have to be right, Truzz. Let the man eat, bump up, and Duke it out with the small heavies.

125kg: I think Coby Merrill is going to be among the most despised wrestlers in the NCAA for the majority of his career. He is going to be one boring SOB to watch sumo around the mat. Couple that with the fact that outside of a low single, I don't even know how you shoot on those legs, and we are all going to collectively groan when we have to watch this man wrestle anyone that is a quality opponent.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

6 hours ago, BruceyB said:

 

61kg: I was thinking about it earlier today, and at least over the last 15 years or so, I really think the group of Blaze, Forrest, Davino, and Seidel might legitimately be the most elite top 4 that we have seen. Truzz, you said it. It's possible that 4 of the 5 best 61kg wrestlers in the world are all wrestling 133 in the NCAA right now.

 

Multiple years at heavy are in the conversation:

2025

1. Wyatt Hendricksen- U23 World champ

2. Gable Steveson- Olympic champ

3. Cohlton Schultz - Cadet world Greco champ? (the weight where Greco matters most)

4. Isaac Trumble- u23 world champ

Other years where the international accolades get deeper at heavy.

[Gus]

8 hours ago, BruceyB said:

57kg: This weekend has me flipped me from Lilledahl > Field to Field > Lilledahl. That is my current overreaction, and we did see Lilledahl lose to Desmond at the Black Knight early last season, so maybe for him it helps to make weight consistently and he will be just fine. But I think he could absolutely be knocked off by a VRob, Ventresca, Spratley, McGowan, or others if he looks even remotely like he did this weekend. 

61kg: I was thinking about it earlier today, and at least over the last 15 years or so, I really think the group of Blaze, Forrest, Davino, and Seidel might legitimately be the most elite top 4 that we have seen. Truzz, you said it. It's possible that 4 of the 5 best 61kg wrestlers in the world are all wrestling 133 in the NCAA right now.

65kg: My only real takeaway from this match is that Bo has to be smarter on the edge. Bo is absolutely better at folk than free right now, and him getting beat tactically on the edge doesn't give me even the slightest bit of concern about how he'll do this season. I do think he and Stanich will be still be a very competitive match.

70kg: JW is JW. I'm honestly not really sure why he was on this team. Weird qualification system (or lack there of) this season. JW is never AAing.

74kg: It's almost impressive how sloppy Jaydin James can get at times and still be so dang good. There is a small part of me that wonders if he'll always have that element to him. I think of some of the elite guys of the past that had a tendency to get a little reckless and give up unnecessary points, and I always thought "Well, they're young. Once they get a little more mature and used to this level, they're going to stop making those mistakes" only to have them pretty much do the same thing throughout their careers. I definitely don't expect that to be the case for Jaydin, but it'll be interesting to watch. He's going to be an absolute menace if he stops giving away easy points. When he decides to go, his attacks are so fast, and so crisp.

79kg: Wtf did a 74kg rep us at a weight he's never wrestled? Joe Seeley is an enigma at this point. No disrespect to Jimmy from Harvard, but Seeley lost to Jimmy from Harvard in the last 12 months and then beat whatever version of David Carr is currently out there. I have no idea who Joe Seeley is as a wrestler.

84kg: I don't really take much from Aoeden's loss considering how he got scored on. He got headlocked twice, and then was dead to rights but stuck with a chest wrap that was never going to work and got put down on his back for a hard 4. I honestly think he was very flustered and not sure what to do after he go hit with a headlock for the second time, and then the wheels really fell off. That being said, with this loss I am definitely not under the impression that Aoeden has made a significant jump and I think we are looking at essentially a repeat of last year where Ferrari could beat anyone in tiebreakers, and everyone of the big 4 could beat each other on any given day.

97kg: I have no idea if the weight is an issue or not for Rademacher, but the fact that he has had this much success on the world level but can't get on the podium at the horrendous weight that is the current 197 makes me think you have to be right, Truzz. Let the man eat, bump up, and Duke it out with the small heavies.

125kg: I think Coby Merrill is going to be among the most despised wrestlers in the NCAA for the majority of his career. He is going to be one boring SOB to watch sumo around the mat. Couple that with the fact that outside of a low single, I don't even know how you shoot on those legs, and we are all going to collectively groan when we have to watch this man wrestle anyone that is a quality opponent.

If you watch the match that Merrill wrestled against the Georgian, I guess you just need to spam blast doubles against him.

[WrestlingRash]

12 hours ago, Tyler Perry said:

It’s going to be hilarious when Bo beats Sujeet

I hope he does. USA!!!

[jdw21]

13 hours ago, WrestlingRash said:

Bo is getting closer to bust territory by the day. He will transfer out of VTech soon enough because his results won't come and his parents will want to blame somebody. 

Troll as per usual...

[WrestlingRash]

1 hour ago, jdw21 said:

Troll as per usual...

0 chance he spends all his NCAA years at VTech. 

[BloodRound]

44 minutes ago, WrestlingRash said:

0 chance he spends all his NCAA years at VTech. 

The Pitt-Johnstown commitment is imminent!

[1032004]

2 hours ago, WrestlingRash said:

0 chance he spends all his NCAA years at VTech. 

Lol at zero.  What kind of odds are you giving for a wager?

Edited October 19 by 1032004

[WrestlingRash]

even money because I can 

[1032004]

3 hours ago, WrestlingRash said:

even money because I can 

That’s a wee bit higher than zero chance lol 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

16 hours ago, WrestlingRash said:

0 chance he spends all his NCAA years at VTech. 

What are the chances he has 5 years of college?  I would guess it is just as high that he has 4 or 6.

[1032004]

3 hours ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

What are the chances he has 5 years of college?  I would guess it is just as high that he has 4 or 6.

I don’t see why he wouldn’t have 5 barring a career ending injury unless RAF is handing out multimillion dollar contracts and NCAA athletes are ineligible or something.  So I’d put low odds on 4.   6 may be possible if Olympic redshirts are still a thing.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

3 hours ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

What are the chances he has 5 years of college?  I would guess it is just as high that he has 4 or 6.

The point is, that it isn't 100% sure he qualifies for 5 for 5.  He apparently missed the cutoff, but maybe they let it slide, maybe they don't.  Conflicting reports.

Olympic redshirts are not a thing unless you don't qualify for 5 for 5.

[1032004]

1 hour ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

The point is, that it isn't 100% sure he qualifies for 5 for 5.  He apparently missed the cutoff,

Pretty sure he did not miss the cutoff.

Edited October 20 by 1032004

[Dogbone]

Nothing really changed for me much, winning World Titles is hard and these results don't change much for me. 

57 - I didn't think Luke was a next topic at 125 anyway so this doesn't change much.  He didn't get a TD in the finals last and like most 125s will be in 1 TD matches that could go either way depending on how the critical sequence play out. 

61 - Was and is still is a NCAA title contender. Stock up if anything 

65 -  Probably suffers from the same expectations we put on Spencer.  Any close match will be seen as a bad performance.  He is still learning international freestyle but still one of the best in the US.   Not a lock to win 5 titles as no one is, but he can win it in his first year.  

70 - No change, a podium threat not a title threat  

74 - He is so young. This was good experience that will make him better. Sitting out a year to delay his clock starting but his time will come. 

79 - Shouldn't have been the rep, not at 79KG guy.  Was probably only the rep because PSU tried to get Barr the spot at 97KG even though he isn't a 97KG so they gave them this one when it opened up

84 - Still one of the tope 184s, but I would pencil him into the 2-5 spot behind MM 

97 - This seems like his best weight, as others have said, he should try HWT, its obvious he just isn't the same guy at 197lbs as he is at 97KG

125 - Stock up if anything 

[BruceyB]

8 hours ago, 1032004 said:

Pretty sure he did not miss the cutoff.

He did miss the cutoff. The cutoff is Sept 1st and he has a late August birthday. The rule is that your eligibility starts the first Sept 1st after your 19th birthday. For Bo that would have been last year in 2025. 

However, the discussion that I heard was that they are grandfathering in the class of 2026 since they did not have any notice for these rulings and could not reclassify in order to get all 5 years. If this rule was in place at this time last year, Bo could have reclassified and entered college for the 25-26 season to get the full five years of eligibility and earning potential.

[HokieDave87]

8 minutes ago, BruceyB said:

He did miss the cutoff. The cutoff is Sept 1st and he has a late August birthday. The rule is that your eligibility starts the first Sept 1st after your 19th birthday. For Bo that would have been last year in 2025. 

However, the discussion that I heard was that they are grandfathering in the class of 2026 since they did not have any notice for these rulings and could not reclassify in order to get all 5 years. If this rule was in place at this time last year, Bo could have reclassified and entered college for the 25-26 season to get the full five years of eligibility and earning potential.

This is correct. Bo is getting 5 years bc he's class of 26. It's pretty set in stone from what I've heard. 

[Tyler Perry]

9 hours ago, Dogbone said:

Nothing really changed for me much, winning World Titles is hard and these results don't change much for me. 

57 - I didn't think Luke was a next topic at 125 anyway so this doesn't change much.  He didn't get a TD in the finals last and like most 125s will be in 1 TD matches that could go either way depending on how the critical sequence play out. 

61 - Was and is still is a NCAA title contender. Stock up if anything 

65 -  Probably suffers from the same expectations we put on Spencer.  Any close match will be seen as a bad performance.  He is still learning international freestyle but still one of the best in the US.   Not a lock to win 5 titles as no one is, but he can win it in his first year.  

70 - No change, a podium threat not a title threat  

74 - He is so young. This was good experience that will make him better. Sitting out a year to delay his clock starting but his time will come. 

79 - Shouldn't have been the rep, not at 79KG guy.  Was probably only the rep because PSU tried to get Barr the spot at 97KG even though he isn't a 97KG so they gave them this one when it opened up

84 - Still one of the tope 184s, but I would pencil him into the 2-5 spot behind MM 

97 - This seems like his best weight, as others have said, he should try HWT, its obvious he just isn't the same guy at 197lbs as he is at 97KG

125 - Stock up if anything 

Idk how Merrill would be stock up. Ross teched the GEO at u 20s

[juniorvarsity]

For Lilledahl, I want to say he usually wrestles close matches because he does in college, but he won u23s last year dominating into the finals and winning 4-0. I give a little merit to the weight cut since he doesn't usually have tough opponents early in tournaments, but he had at least 4 hours after weigh ins before his first match. Either way, he's a 57kg guy in 2028. Back to the topic, nothing has changed here for me. He could go undefeated the rest of his college career, or he could drop a match, possibly 2, in a few of his next 3 seasons because of his tight matches. He's still the favorite.

Davino wrestled to expectations for me. Nothing changes related to college season. Depending on the day, any of the 4 guys could win the tournament. 

Bo still gonna be National Champ.

Jordan Williams did what I expected. I am curious he's gonna do next year. I forgot to lay attention to who was in his corner 

James N/A

Sealey will never start. Needs to transfer. Anyways, I hope he doesn't go 157 because that just makes USAW look bad, but we don't know who else got asked before him. 

Aeoden lost to a guy who has some good wins. The field feels the same. Welsh and Ferrari can make any match a 1 takedown match or go to tiebreakers. Similar to 133, feels like anyone can win.

Maybe Shumate is the front runner for the starting spot. Unsure where Rogotzke is compared to him, but he has looked good over the summer in Freestyle.

If Rademacher doesn't place top 4 at 197 next year, he needs to go heavy. He should consider doing it now.

Has anyone seen Merrill wrestle a tough folkstyle match? I haven't. If he is good at riding and getting off bottom, that style is going to give problems to anyone in the weight. Sidenote, his headgear makes me like him less. It's definitely for headbutting, but I haven't noticed it much since US Open.