Room Guy Posted June 28 Posted June 28 I know the landscape has changed with RTCs and all, but it sure seems like USAW completely gave up on Greco. Back in the day there was more crossover with athletes at the RTC and such and it was all just “our wrestlers”. The trials were hotly contested and everyone was interested regardless of style. Now, Greco is like an alien in the USA. Around 2012 we had a lot of exciting up and comers, and we crapped the bed in the Olympics and it seems like it’s been downhill ever since. Yes there have been a few positives in there but mostly not meeting potential. You can’t tell me that a generational talent like K. Bey shouldn’t be winning medals regularly. What access to training with top foreign athletes is he getting? Mad respect to the athletes that are carrying the torch, but it seems they are being handed a knife headed into a gun fight. They deserve better.
LJB Posted June 28 Posted June 28 to be fair, i do not think USAW made a conscious effort to ignore greco... the reality is they do not really do much for freestyle either... the RTCs are the reason we have done so well leg grabbing, it has nothing to do with USAW... obviously, USAW had a hand in partnering with the NCAA and starting a more structured approach originally with the RTCs, but past that, they are not doing anything other then enjoying in the glory of others hard work and accomplishments... one of the biggest things USAW did that has negatively impacted greco is they started putting on folk tourneys... the rest are the coaches that are ignorant and actively try to prevent their athletes from doing greco and that is from youth through the college coaching ranks... that has impacted a large portion of athletes who do not attempt to learn greco and are actively scared of it because of the ignorance pushed on them... then you have these "media" outlets that totally ignore greco because they are incapable of speaking intelligently about it and do not have a clue what they are watching anyway because of the above... that has bred an entire generation of "fans" that have had no exposure to greco and do not have a clue what it is about and actively shit on it... 2
Hammerlock3 Posted June 28 Posted June 28 we should add trips to greco to make it an actual sport and stop sending teams to worlds. best case maybe UWW follows suit, worst case is this right now. "Half measures are a coward's form of insanity."
LJB Posted June 28 Posted June 28 with all that being said... USAW has actually put forth some effort the last couple of years to try and improve greco... Herb House took awhile to get going but i feel like has realized what his role should be and what he is good at... he has got tons more over seas opportunities for our guys and the camps that are being put on at the OTC are getting much better with the foreign participation... most importantly, USAW finally pulled their thumb out of their ass and hired Joe Warren as the national team coach... that is huge and really showed a change in their thinking... they patently refused for several years to give him a chance... all this is showing in better results, but, "fans" do not know about it because the media refuses to pay any attention at all... the only thing worse than Flo not talking about greco is when they actually do talk about greco and just parrott the same tired BS that every ignorant "fan" says about greco...
LJB Posted June 28 Posted June 28 4 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said: we should add trips to greco to make it an actual sport and stop sending teams to worlds. best case maybe UWW follows suit, worst case is this right now. wrestling "fans" case in point...
Mr. PeanutButter Posted June 28 Posted June 28 Boring, archaic, and self limiting style that only the unathletic rejects that couldn't cut it in the real wrestling styles participate in.
LJB Posted June 28 Posted June 28 Just now, Mr. PeanutButter said: Boring, archaic, and self limiting style that only the unathletic rejects that couldn't cut it in the real wrestling styles participate in. yet another ignorant thing that is parroted over and over... i won't bore you with the actual accomplishments of some of greco guys, but, i will tell a little story... at senior pan ams, the NMU guys all were training with a certain college in the area... they had a match day and the NMU guys destroyed that colleges guys in free... it was amusing how much jawing was going on after between the guys in the suite i was in...
Hammerlock3 Posted June 28 Posted June 28 21 minutes ago, LJB said: wrestling "fans" case in point... Hope you and the other two greco fans figure out a way to turn you noses up with your heads buried in the sand. 1 "Half measures are a coward's form of insanity."
LJB Posted June 28 Posted June 28 4 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said: Hope you and the other two greco fans figure out a way to turn you noses up with your heads buried in the sand.
Hammerlock3 Posted June 28 Posted June 28 7 minutes ago, LJB said: posting gifs when you have no points is your thing huh? impressive. "Half measures are a coward's form of insanity."
LJB Posted June 28 Posted June 28 1 minute ago, Hammerlock3 said: posting gifs when you have no points is your thing huh? impressive. why bother arguing with someone who is totally ignorant on the subject? it has never worked before and nothing to even suggest it will work in the future... seems silly, so... you get GIFs when you say something really stupid...
juniorvarsity Posted June 28 Posted June 28 North Michigan is ending their Greco program. Not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet.
LJB Posted June 28 Posted June 28 there is a unique thread dedicated to NMU's decision just one below this one...
dragit Posted June 28 Posted June 28 It seems to me that the lack of emphasis on Greco isn't based on the merits, including whether it requires athleticism, and more on the fact that almost all participants in wrestling participate in folk, which has a lot of overlap with free and much less with greco. And with respect to fan following, most fans come to know wrestlers they follow from televised college matches, and then those guys go with the style more like folk (free) when they go pro. It's not a disdain for greco. It's just an easier path for freestyle.
dragit Posted June 28 Posted June 28 It seems to me that the lack of emphasis on Greco isn't based on the merits, including whether it requires athleticism, and more on the fact that almost all participants in wrestling participate in folk, which has a lot of overlap with free and much less with greco. And with respect to fan following, most fans come to know wrestlers they follow from televised college matches, and then those guys go with the style more like folk (free) when they go pro. It's not a disdain for greco. It's just an easier path for freestyle.
LJB Posted June 28 Posted June 28 it is a by product of the trend of specialization in youth sports... and that is an entirely different conversation that can only really be held by a few who been successful on whether or not specialization is a good thing or not...
dragit Posted June 28 Posted June 28 35 minutes ago, LJB said: it is a by product of the trend of specialization in youth sports... and that is an entirely different conversation that can only really be held by a few who been successful on whether or not specialization is a good thing or not... Not sure what you mean. The specialized sport here is greco, which is far different from folk (the form of wrestling dominant in the U.S.) and free (which is a relatively seamless transition from folk, hence the high correlation of success from top college guys to senior level free). But of course you play the card that the hoi polloi on the message board have no business sharing opinions and conversing because they are not among the "few." Probably we should have to pay to watch a podcast or buy a book that explains this rocket science to us, the great unwashed.
dragit Posted June 28 Posted June 28 44 minutes ago, LJB said: it is a by product of the trend of specialization in youth sports... and that is an entirely different conversation that can only really be held by a few who been successful on whether or not specialization is a good thing or not... Not sure what you mean. The specialized sport here is greco, which is far different from folk (the form of wrestling dominant in the U.S.) and free (which is a relatively seamless transition from folk, hence the high correlation of success from top college guys to senior level free). But of course you play the card that the hoi polloi on the message board have no business sharing opinions and conversing because they are not among the "few." Probably we should have to pay to watch a podcast or buy a book that explains this rocket science to us, the great unwashed.
LJB Posted June 29 Posted June 29 greco is far different from folk... fair... still more practiced on this planet than our colloquial sport... anonymous nerds commenting on the purest expression of our sport will never not amuse me... when wrestling is talked about as the oldest sport on this planet greco is what they are talking about... originally created as a way for soldiers to train without killing themselves with sharp pointy sticks... i get why that makes most feel uncomfortable...
LJB Posted June 29 Posted June 29 seriously... i would love to know how many of the greco detractors have ever actually watched a world medal session... all you anonymous nerds just say which one you watched...
dragit Posted June 29 Posted June 29 42 minutes ago, LJB said: seriously... i would love to know how many of the greco detractors have ever actually watched a world medal session... all you anonymous nerds just say which one you watched... When and where did I detract from greco? My post explicitly says that I don't think that the lack of emphasis on greco is a commentary on the merits of the craft. Whereas you constantly denigrate everything other than greco as leg grabbing or whatever phrase you use between your oh so precious ellipses . . . because it wasn't what the Greeks did with their pointy sticks. As if baseball isn't a real sport because the Greeks didn't play it. Or modern basketball is terrible because there's no peach basket. . . . . . .
Former158 Posted June 29 Posted June 29 (edited) If UWW moved to 12 weights for the Olympics, I would be in favor of a merge with Greco and figure out a way to reward throws/upper body more. What if back exposure from neutral was worth 5 (with 6 for high amplitude), and some more par terre opportunities for passivity (shot clock or par terre choice?) Imagine a team at roughly 55 kg 57 kg 60 kg 63-kg 66 kg 70 KG 74 kg 78 kg 83 kg 88 Kg 93 kg 100 kg 125 kg Edited June 29 by Former158 1
Aidan Gore Garner, North Carolina Class of 2027 Committed to North Carolina State Projected Weight: 157, 165
Will Clanton New York Military Academy, New York Class of 2027 Committed to Mercyhurst Projected Weight: 125
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