Hurricane Wrestling Posted March 22 Posted March 22 4 minutes ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said: If it's so clear I suppose there will only be 1 finalist and they'll just forego the voting? Not at all. I'm really interested in where the other guys place in the Hodge balloting. Hopefully, someone will post their respective resumes to include: Record Dominance rating (i.e., points per match Bonus percentage Number of pins ...and any other notable factors.
Hurricane Wrestling Posted March 22 Posted March 22 46 minutes ago, Nak21 said: Seems MM’s to lose, but Barr is in there, Levi, Vega, Jax, LL, Trumble. With what? 7 undefeated champs, I don’t think anyone else makes the list of finalists. There are criteria listed for the award no? How does this group on undefeated champs breakdown according to the varying stated criteria?? The current criteria (it's changed over the years) is: Hodge Criteria: 1 – Record 2 – Dominance/Bonus-Point Percentage 3 – Quality of Competition 4 – Sportsmanship More info at WIN's March 11 ASICS Race for the Dan Hodge Trophy update - WIN Magazine - WIN Magazine.
Jimmy Cinnabon Posted March 22 Author Posted March 22 1 minute ago, Hurricane Wrestling said: The current criteria (it's changed over the years) is: Hodge Criteria: 1 – Record 2 – Dominance/Bonus-Point Percentage 3 – Quality of Competition 4 – Sportsmanship More info at WIN's March 11 ASICS Race for the Dan Hodge Trophy update - WIN Magazine - WIN Magazine. Forrest is tied with Mesenbrink on #1, probably ahead of him on #3 and tied on #4. He is only slightly behind on #2.
Hurricane Wrestling Posted March 22 Posted March 22 4 minutes ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said: Forrest is tied with Mesenbrink on #1, probably ahead of him on #3 and tied on #4. He is only slightly behind on #2. Nope, they're not tied on #1. A 25-0 record is better than an 18-0 record. Agreed that Jax is probably ahead of MM on #3 and that he's slightly behind on #2 and that they're tied on # 4 (which is pretty much a meaningless criterion barring something exceptionally good or bad IMO). Plus, MM just finished the NCAA tournament as the Most Outstanding wrestler, with a tech fall over his finals' opponent, last year's NCAA runner-up. Jax, OTH, beat another freshman by a 3-point margin. We could give some extra credit to Jax for being the first true freshman since 1947 to complete an undefeated championship season, but his teammate beat him out for that by a couple of hours. Don't get me wrong, I love Jax but he doesn't have as good an argument for the Hodge as MM. I wonder where in the balloting he'll end up against Barr, Vega and the others in the conversation.
Hurricane Wrestling Posted March 22 Posted March 22 On another thread, Psalm 1 guy posted the following chart (courtesy Cornell Kevin). It has the relevant stats. Click on the above and it should blow up so you can read it. If not, go to the thread titled "The Dan Hodge Trophy."
ionel Posted March 22 Posted March 22 2 hours ago, Hurricane Wrestling said: The current criteria (it's changed over the years) is: Hodge Criteria: 1 – Record 2 – Dominance/Bonus-Point Percentage 3 – Quality of Competition 4 – Sportsmanship 5 - and something that hasn't been done since 1947 ftfy .
romesone Posted March 23 Posted March 23 6 hours ago, Perry said: Forrest won the deepest weight and was absolutely dominant as he did it. Plus he was in high school a few months ago which is insane. Barr would be my second pick as he was equally dominant to messenbrink but doesn't act like a doofus. Why is that insane? If anything it's a significant advantage for Forrest. He's not any younger than the other top seeds at 133 and he avoided the grind of a college schedule.
Truzzcat Posted March 23 Posted March 23 2 minutes ago, romesone said: Why is that insane? If anything it's a significant advantage for Forrest. He's not any younger than the other top seeds at 133 and he avoided the grind of a college schedule. He missed out on training in a college room for 3-4 months. I am the personal property of VakAttack
Caveira Posted March 23 Posted March 23 1 minute ago, Truzzcat said: He missed out on training in a college room for 3-4 months. He spent significant time in that room before enrolling at okst
Hilton Head Joe Posted March 23 Posted March 23 (edited) MM is your Hodge winner. But the statement I heard so many times from the media was true freshman during the broadcast. Vega and Jax are not true freshman truly. They are holdbacks in high school. Cael was 19 his redshirt freshman year and went undefeated and won a NCAA title the same age as Jax and Vega. Jax was almost a 20 year old freshman but came out of high school mid season. None were true freshman. They would have been 18 years old and no one has ever went undefeated as a truly true freshman yet as far as I know. Edited March 23 by Hilton Head Joe
Offthemat Posted March 23 Posted March 23 Jax had the shortest average match time. That’s dominance. 1
Ricketycricket Posted March 23 Posted March 23 One of the criteria for Hodge is past achievements, ie past National Champions. That basically rules out freshmen if there are undefeated returning National Champs (such as MM). Not sure why people always talk about the Hodge as being based solely on this year.
Hurricane Wrestling Posted March 23 Posted March 23 6 minutes ago, Ricketycricket said: One of the criteria for Hodge is past achievements, ie past National Champions. That basically rules out freshmen if there are undefeated returning National Champs (such as MM). Not sure why people always talk about the Hodge as being based solely on this year. Past achievements was removed as a criterion a few years ago. Even when it was on the list, it was only supposed to be used as a tiebreaker when the candidates were equal in the other criteria, (There were 7 criteria initially, now it's down to 4.) 1
Ricketycricket Posted March 23 Posted March 23 7 minutes ago, Hurricane Wrestling said: Past achievements was removed as a criterion a few years ago. Even when it was on the list, it was only supposed to be used as a tiebreaker when the candidates were equal in the other criteria, (There were 7 criteria initially, now it's down to 4.) Oh I see. My bad.
Fred Posted March 23 Posted March 23 3 hours ago, Hilton Head Joe said: MM is your Hodge winner. But the statement I heard so many times from the media was true freshman during the broadcast. Vega and Jax are not true freshman truly. They are holdbacks in high school. Cael was 19 his redshirt freshman year and went undefeated and won a NCAA title the same age as Jax and Vega. Jax was almost a 20 year old freshman but came out of high school mid season. None were true freshman. They would have been 18 years old and no one has ever went undefeated as a truly true freshman yet as far as I know. Maybe not “truly” but they are true freshman and when one or both of them finishes as undefeated 4x’er, they will have outdone Carl’s record
romesone Posted March 23 Posted March 23 10 hours ago, Truzzcat said: He missed out on training in a college room for 3-4 months. no. He was actually training in that room while wrestling 15-16 year olds.
Jimmy Cinnabon Posted March 23 Author Posted March 23 From WrestleStat's Hodge Watch: Rank Wrestler School Record Weight Points #1 #1 Mitchell Mesenbrink #1 Penn State 27-0 165 3740.27 #2 #1 Levi Haines #1 Penn State 26-0 174 3655.90 #3 #1 Josh Barr #1 Penn State 24-0 197 3653.07 #4 #1 Sergio Vega #2 Oklahoma State 24-0 141 3621.15 #5 #1 Jax Forrest #2 Oklahoma State 18-0 133 3607.36 #6 #2 Jesse Mendez #5 Ohio State 26-1 141 3525.17 #7 #1 Isaac Trumble #13 NC State 21-0 285 3512.12 #8 #1 Luke Lilledahl #1 Penn State 25-0 125 3467.13
Offthemat Posted March 23 Posted March 23 Possibly of interest. Points scored at NCAAs: Haines. 26.5 Forrest 26 Mesenbrink 25.5
jchapman Posted March 23 Posted March 23 12 hours ago, Hilton Head Joe said: MM is your Hodge winner. But the statement I heard so many times from the media was true freshman during the broadcast. Vega and Jax are not true freshman truly. They are holdbacks in high school. Cael was 19 his redshirt freshman year and went undefeated and won a NCAA title the same age as Jax and Vega. Jax was almost a 20 year old freshman but came out of high school mid season. None were true freshman. They would have been 18 years old and no one has ever went undefeated as a truly true freshman yet as far as I know. Dick Hauser and Lowell Lange Craig Henning got screwed in the 2007 NCAA Finals.
Hilton Head Joe Posted March 23 Posted March 23 (edited) 10 minutes ago, jchapman said: Dick Hauser and Lowell Lange Learn something new everyday. Everyone in the elite wrestling circles know a true freshman/ 18 year old kid is usually physically inferior and therefore most recommend starting your freshman year at 20 years old. Most 18 year olds don't have the horsepower to do it. Jax waiting until mid season in high school as a 19 1/2 year old just started being able to handle the strength and made the transition at the last second. So Jax really is not a true freshman. If we are gonna call guys a true freshman at 20 years old then the goal posts have surely moved. Edited March 23 by Hilton Head Joe 1
NotThatDave Posted March 23 Posted March 23 20 hours ago, ionel said: He will not win ... zero chance.
BigTimeFan Posted March 23 Posted March 23 Jax weight class was objectively really tough. The 1st, 2nd, 7th and 8th from 2025 were all back and placed 8, 5, 7, 6, a serious cram down, suggesting the top four were really strong. And Jax didn't just beat them, he crushed them. On 1
Curt Foley Posted March 23 Posted March 23 21 hours ago, BigTimeFan said: I think Vega knocking off a 2x champ and legit Hodge contender prior to the finals is worth a look I thought it was easy...Vega, Ow...MM Hodge. Don't like the idea of splitting the Hodg, so IMO, it is clearly MM for Hodge as well, now that they screwed up the OW.
Jackson Lininger Northern York, Pennsylvania Class of 2027 Committed to Slippery Rock Projected Weight: 149
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