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There's really no competition or question about it. If you're asking me which sports are the most technical and the most meaningful out there, martial arts are. Martial arts especially in self-defense are the most intellectual and the most scientific out of all sports not just practicewise but also culturally. Nothing comes close. Gymnastics, American Football, Basketball, Cricket, Dancing, Parkour, Ice Hockey, Pool, Tennis, and Figure Skating don't even come close. Every single martial art such as Muay Thai, Sambo, Kyokushin, Judo, Shotokan, Ringen(Medieval German grappling, wrestling, and submissions), Kajukenbo, Krav Maga, Taekwondo, Fencing, Dutch Kickboxing, Buno(a type of Filipino wrestling that uses weapons), etc. is far more technical than any non-fighting sport in existence. There's something about martial arts that sets it apart from non-fighting sports and that is that it is a journey of personal development and also learning new things such as techniques constantly. Also, another thing that sets martial arts apart from many non-fighting sports is that martial arts, especially effective ones originated in real-life such as survival, self-defense, real conflicts, and real wars compared to other sports that mostly began as games. This is a big reason why martial arts are complex and complicated compared to other sports. Real life is complicated compared to games. There's so much diversity and adventure in martial arts. I would say that martial arts have a far bigger world and a much more diverse universe compared to other sports such as rugby, basketball, tennis, track and field, discus throw, waterpolo, swimming, archery, motorsports, equestrian, soccer, etc. Seriously, you can do so many things with martial arts whether they are self-defense, mixing various styles, developing new techniques, utilizing diverse environments as weapons, using everyday objects as weapons, psychological warfare, deception, reading people, etc. You won't ever get this diversity and diverse adventure in non-fighting sports. Also, martial arts are also far more meaningful and also have something to offer in terms of mythology, heroism, major history, and overall adventure. Many martial artists also get to explore the various cultures of the nations and ethnic groups of various martial arts styles as they learn more about the styles. Also, martial arts along with military strategies and tactics are the defining skills of warriors such as knights, samurai, etc. throughout history. Warriors along with philosophers and scientists were the ones who created and destroyed civilizations throughout history. Warriors and intellectuals are the real reason civilizations rose and fell. Warriors and intellectuals created history. How do the sports of ice hockey, lacrosse, badminton, golf, weightlifting, canoeing, skiing, volleyball, etc. compare to that? Also, martial arts compared to non-fighting sports have so many things going for it when it comes to making movies out of it. For example, there are literally many action movies about martial artists using their skills to fight gangsters or other types of villains for some meaningful cause. But what about non-fighting sports such as American Football, High Jump, Pole Vaulting, Javelin Throw, Baseball, Cheerleading, etc.? What can you even do with them? Like how would the protagonist use those skills against gangsters or other bad guys? I mean you can make movies about them where the protagonist undergoes a personal self-development journey about those non-fighting sports but you can't really do much like have badass heroes use those skills against bad guys the same way he uses his martial arts skills. Yes, the life of an NFL player and also his highschool gridiron football days are indeed full of glamour, popularity, career opportunities, girls, money, etc. but ultimately, everything he does is confined to that football field and also the crowds of fans he has. He would be nothing without his fans while martial artists will continuously be martial artists even without fans. Fans are ultimately what keeps his games and his sports going. For a person like me who is heavily into martial arts(I am a teen male who is a member of an intense BJJ dojo. I am also Kyokushin fighter.), Chess, and STEM(Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics), I wouldn't say that American football(not soccer) and all other non-fighting sports are boring and useless. No. Of course, that's ridiculous. They are certainly hugely beneficial in that they heavily develop social skills, large social circles, physical fitness, support structures, and careers but I wouldn't go as far as to make them my entire personality because that is just boring to me and personally for me, I will feel empty especially in the end. No offense. It's just me. I don't mean any disrespect to non-fighting sports but imagining myself as spending my whole life and defining my entire personality based on a huge soccer field especially as I enter elderly age and death seems like I lived in a golden cage without seeing the outside world. Ultimately, what I did was just games. I didn't really help people in truly meaningful ways like cure diseases, develop technology, use my martial arts skills in fighting a hardened violent career criminal to defend myself, solve crimes, etc. I also feel like my privacy is destroyed and also feel like my entire being and existence is chained to and heavily depends on the mainstream massive public crowd if I define my life based on non-fighting sports, especially team sports like basketball, baseball, and American football. Ultimately, I know that I would be nothing without the crowd who worships me. They're the reason why gridiron football players and basketball players thrive. So if any of you out there are athletes of team sports, especially full-contact ones, treat your fans and followers like friends and family. Don't condescend, take advantage of, or treat them like *I poop my pants, don't laugh at me*. They're the reason why you exist and the way you are. You are nothing without them. Your coaches and your training facilities are heavily funded because of the demands of your fans and followers wanting to watch you. Again, you are and would be nothing without them. But as for martial artists of various styles, they don't need fans. I have read about many obscure martial arts groups and schools(of obscure or foreign exotic fighting systems) who have deep passion for what they do even if the public ignores and doesn't even know they exist. They just like what they're doing and get the bonding and brotherhood from their fellow peers and teachers and not fans, outsiders, or the mainstream public. Team sport athletes, especially those of full-contact sports need their huge public crowds of fans and followers to feel complete about themselves in meaningful ways but martial artists don't. But martial artists exist by themselves even to the point of individuality. And this kind of freedom and privacy seem very serene and good in feeling. It's truly freeing. Compared to martial arts, non-fighting team sports like that seem artificial life and just games even to the point of being commercialized. And no, this isn't me *I poop my pants, don't laugh at me*ting on them. It's just how I feel in all honesty. Anyways, now back to the technicality part. By the way, some fans of mainstream team sports such as soccer, volleyball, baseball, basketball, hockey, American football, etc. say that they are just as technical as martial arts and their arguments are these: 1. Those team sports utilize teamwork when it comes to strategy and tactics. But this is very minimal in thinking compared to martial arts where you learn various techniques, combinations, body positioning, reading an opponent, transitioning from one style to another, combining styles, etc. and then applying all of those martial arts aspects in the middle of a sport martial arts fight. Also, most strategies and tactics of team sports rarely go according to plan because first, you ultimately can't read or control the minds and actions of your teammates regardless of cohesion and camaraderie so what happens is that the whole plan often gets abandoned. Second, enemy teammates often make sure and pressure your teammates into doing other things that are against your team's original plan. 2. This one is hilarious and downright comical. Those fans argue that basic movements in those team sports such as dribbling in basketball, soccer dribbling away from the enemy, volleyball spike, soccer bicycle kick, etc. require tactics, strategy, and thinking about them in the middle of the games. First of all, don't listen to those fans because that is the most ridiculous mistake you can make if you do. Those fans are crazy idiots. You get good at those basic body movements by practicing and drilling them over and over again to the point that they become instinct and you are able to do them efficiently without thinking about them. You don't think about them in the middle of the games like how some martial arts bullshido martial arts master tries his ridiculous fantasy techniques against real conflicts. It's funny because martial artists(the most technical sports) actually say that you don't think about inventing martial arts techniques in the middle of conflicts and just let your instinctive martial arts techniques born out of your martial arts training take over yet those stupid fans of those team sports say that you should think about doing those basic movements of those team sports in the middle of their games. Those fans are like the bullshido versions of non-fighting team sports. Many real-life athletes of those non-fighting team sports suffered multiple misfortunes for trying to heavily think about their basic moves in the middle of games. In real-life, most athletes of those non-fighting team sports do not spend the majority of their thinking and strategizing on their basic body movements and instead prioritize the majority of their brain power on their teammates and the enemy team such as when it comes to positions, locations, and proximity. I found it strange when I watched a video of a coach of a male American football saying that a basic touchdown of his sport requires the same technicality as a whole BJJ match and I also found it weird when some track-and-field athlete from my US public highschool said that his sport is as technical as Fencing. In my mind, I was like “What the f#%& are you talking about?!” without telling them in any way. Those people said them to me after my practice as a wrestler of my public highschool's male US Folkstyle Wrestling team. It was weird. _________ So yeah, if you're asking me which sports are the most technical, it's martial arts with BJJ being the most technical. It gets even more complicated in self-defense and real fights.

Your first three words cover it.

Jimmy-rigged some would say... But the person behind JC drives clicks and banter. Not exactly a national treasure but I'll be darned if there's not some international treasure

Didn’t see them in the portal. I think they wrestled the open under valiant not Atreus. A side note that Dan Severn looks to be one of the guys heading up the effort to raise money for ASU.

I haven't seen you mention smoked brisket in over a week and quite frankly find that more disturbing.

These guys don't know what they're talking about. The only reason Dana didn't sign Ben during his prime is because his style was boring. Ben was the #1 fighter in the world outside of the UFC for years before he retired, and then came back after his prime with a bum hip. Anyone that is arguing for Bo has no knowledge of how the MMA world works. This match-up was supposed to be a stepping stone for Bo, not his first MMA loss. The fact that he did lose just proves how much growth he needs to be a legitimate contender in the UFC. It's not like it was a freak knockout or a weird submission. He was simply bested by someone who displayed a far better foundation of MMA skills than himself.

What I learned in this thread, not all wrestling fans know things about mma.

You believe this to be true... More like NAIA

Bo has only fought at the highest level? That's the worst take I've seen in a while

I agree. At the highest level Ben was 1-2 and that 1 he got the holy hell beat out of him. Bo...has only fought at the highest level and this was his first lost. You're really fixated on RDR's last two matches, but he's 20-2 in his career. Askren was 1-2 in UFC...and that 1 "win" was...generous.

Ben left ONE as an undefeated, reigning multi-time champ. RDR left ONE after getting knocked out twice in a row ... and then he went and demolished Bo. It's ridiculous to compare Bo's MMA career to Ben's at this point

Sure...he gets credit for...taking that beating and not quitting. I still wouldn't call it a wildly successful run, but...sure.

This is the original post I responded to. It just said MMA, and by using the word funk Askren in particular comes to mind. How many guys that were succesful in wrestling due to “funk” have even seriously tried MMA? Seems like a small sample size. And even if you don’t want to give Askren credit for “beating” Lawler, you gotta give him credit for taking the beating that he did early on and continuing on in the fight. Based on what we saw this weekend I’m not sure Bo could have done the same.

FIFY

Well...he's not my God, but I think Spencer Lee was destroy dude's in UFC.

Why are YOU guys responding to me and making this a Bo vs Askren...matchup or debate? I'm saying NEITHER of their styles was real conducive to winning in the UFC. I don't care how either did, but if someone uses Askren as an example...well, I think that's a LITTLE silly. How about Johnny Hendricks? He feels like a MUCH better example. Woodley or Koshchek, a LOT of other Wrestlers. It's not JUST limited to Bo and Ben.

Ok. I'd probably take your bet. If we're talking about how old Ben was, he was 5-6 years older than two of the guys he fought and the same age as Masvidal. Dana White didn't want him in the UFC because he didn't think he was good. He didn't do a whole lot to disabuse Dana of that notion...IMO. But this isn't really about Askren, I was merely making a point that a certain type of athlete transitions more easily. If you won buy rolling guys through on single legs or...funk, that's probably not going to help you as much in MMA as if you just...dominated guys by overpowering them and using your athletic ability(also Burroughs or the others I mentioned).

Correct. RDR actually got finished twice in a row before leaving ONE.

We've seen imperfect holds take people out and perfect holds not. You have to look at the reaction of the guy defending. Lawler's arm went limp. But like I said, that's not the point. The point is how you handle adversity. Askren battled back and got the dominant position. Bo folded mentally well before he folded physically.

Possibly El Salvador’s president doesn’t want to make him and the USA can’t compel him.

My interpretation is. —> Spencer Lee is currently capable of making a world / Olympic team as he has made one. Bo. Well not so much As of now.

Askren was past his prime by the time he made the UFC. I’m no MMA expert but I’d bet a lot of guys Askren beat in the other leagues were better than anyone Nickal had fought before Saturday. And didn’t guy Bo lost to, come from the league Askren was in?

Verboten

It was over a period of like 4 seconds. And I don't know what everyone in the arena knew. I knew I didn't think that looked like a real dangerous hold. It was a headlock with no arm. I also knew that I'd been disabused of that type of thinking the little MMA workout or training I had, so...whatever. If it's on Lawler or not, I didn't assign blame, I was just pointing out...he was not doing well in that fight and he didn't really win any exchanges... I consider that a win for him like I consider Zach Glazier the "Champ" of the 2023 Soldier Salute.

lol wut?