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Okay, this is for martial artists(Muay-Thai, BJJ, Judo, Kyokushin, Taekwondo, Shotokan, Boxing, Kickboxing, Kempo, Eskrima, etc.) or those interested in martial arts(Muay-Thai, BJJ, Kyokushin, Judo, Taekwondo, Shotokan, Boxing, Eskrima, Lethwei, Kajukenbo, etc.). If you guys want to try Amateur Wrestling especially US highschool wrestling because you think that Amateur-Wrestling(Greco-Roman, Freestyle, and US Folkstyle) are martial arts or combat science, YOU ARE ABSOLUTE FUCKING WRONG! Yes, many people often say that amateur wrestling makes great fighters but fighters and martial artists ARE NOT THE SAME! A fighter is simply just someone who fights while a martial artist is a combat artist that can be a person that avoids real fights. For example, an untrained street fighter is not a martial artist but he is clearly a fighter because fighting is what he does. Here's a thing about amateur wrestling. They ESPECIALLY US HIGHSCHOOL FOLKSTYLE WRESTLING do not have techniques or even fight IQ. They absolutely have zero when it comes to that. Okay, you are most likely confused right now and are probably saying: “But Firu56Go, why do people think that amateur wrestling is special and a great way to be a fighter if they have no techniques or fight IQ involved?” Well, Amateur Wrestling is not special because they “have techniques or fight IQ”. They are seen as special and a great background for fighters because of… Wait for it… THE GRIND!!! THE PHYSICAL CONDITIONING!! ALL OF IT!! PLUS THE WEIGHTCUTTING!!! That's exactly what sets amateur wrestling apart from martial arts(I didn't put “other” between “from” and “martial arts” because that would imply that amateur wrestling is a martial art, a combat science, or involves fight IQ, thinking, tactics, or strategy.). Not techniques, fight IQ, thinking, tactics, or strategies. The truth is that the training in Greco-Roman Wrestling, Freestyle Wrestling, and US Scholastic Wrestling are all 96% physical conditioning plus the weightcutting. And absolutely no learning techniques or experimenting and creating new techniques. What I mean by physical conditioning in Amateur Wrestling is that you aren't fighting or sparring or learning techniques. It means you are basically trying to be an extreme form of a gymnast gym-freak doing a lot of cardio. If you call amateur wrestling, especially US Folkstyle Wrestling a martial art due to their physical conditioning, then you might as well also call all non-combat sports(soccer, gridiron football, tracks, baseball, cheerleading, etc.) of Olympics and highschool as martial arts. Again, amateur wrestling is literally you becoming an extreme gymnast gym-freak cardio-freak. I am going to say it right now. The truth is that Amateur Wrestling, especially US Scholastic Wrestling has far more similarities and is far closer to US highschool cheerleading than to the likes of Judo, Kyokushin, Muay-Thai, BJJ, Boxing, etc. Also, compared to martial artists such as BJJ, Kyokushin, Taekwondo, Shotokan, Judo, Muay-Thai, etc. who tend to be individualistic hobbyists, amateur wrestlers especially US highschool wrestlers tend to have national(and sometimes wide international) and institutional support and tend to be extremely collective and extremely regimented like the a professional national military which is why they often have far more edge than those individualistic martial artists and hobbyists when it comes to physical conditioning and training structure. Okay, you are most likely confused right now and are probably saying: “But Firu56Go, if amateur wrestling indeed has no techniques or fight IQ, then how come they are able to do body movements that most normal untrained people can't do such as suplexes, chain wrestling, double leg takedowns, etc.” Well amateur wrestlers do not learn techniques or have fight IQ to execute those movements. It's their physical conditioning and weightcutting that allows them to execute those movements. You don't need techniques or IQ to do them. You just have to have an able enough body to do so. I mean asked yourselves. Seriously, Amateur Wrestling especially US Scholastic Wrestling is primarily a sport especially institutional academics-school sports. Not martial arts or even about combat. Why do you think highschool basketball players can do dunks, dynamic superb ball dribblings, and three-points hoop shots? Why do you think highschool gymnasts can do backflips? Why do you think highschool soccer players can do bicycle kicks? It's not because they are martial artists nor do they use techniques nor IQ but because of their physical conditioning and their regimented collective institutional training structure. Same thing with Amateur Wrestling especially US Scholastic Wrestling. If you think that amateur wrestling(Greco-Roman, Freestyle, and US Scholastic Folkstyle) is this advanced form of grappling that is one of the most advanced, diverse, and developed in techniques and fight IQ in all of the world, YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY FUCKING WRONG. When it comes to techniques and fight IQ, amateur wrestling is actually far lesser advanced than almost all typical obscure non-Western foreign ethnic folk wrestling styles you can find all over the world in any nation or country such as Mongolian Bohk, Turkish Oil Wrestling, Filipino Dumog, Filipino Buno, Korean Ssireum, Central Asian Uzbek Kurash, Bultong, etc. Seriously, take off the physical conditioning of amateur wrestlers and any average wrestler from any of those foreign obscure non-Western folk wrestling styles(Mongolian Bohk, Turkish Oil Wrestling, Filipino Dumog, Filipino Buno, Korean Ssireum, Central Asian Uzbek Kurash, Bultong, etc.) will decisively and absolutely embarrass, humiliate, and destroy the best amateur wrestlers especially US Scholastic Wrestlers. Let me tell you some other important things about Amateur Wrestling(Greco-Roman, Freestyle, and US Scholastic Folkstyle). Many people think that Amateur-Wrestling is this martial art that is super advanced in techniques and fight IQ because they have this idea that it is originally a military art practiced by ancient warriors and ancient soldiers in Ancient Greece and Ancient Rome. Sorry to say but that origin theory is a myth and isn't supported by Historical Science. All of the real wrestling styles and all of the real grappling styles practiced and used by Ancient Greeks, Ancient Macedonians, and Ancient Romans in the battlefield are long forgotten and lost to history. This idea that Amateur Wrestling came from Ancient Greece and Ancient Rome was conceived due to Modern Greco-Roman Wrestling being called Modern Greco-Roman Wrestling due to the emphasis of both Modern Greco-Roman Wrestling being focused on upper body wrestling the same way the Ancient Greeks, the Ancient Macedonians, and Ancient Romans focused on upper body fighting when it comes to wrestling and grappling but that's where the similarities end. Really, it turns out that Modern Greco-Roman Wrestling was originally called Greco-Roman Wrestling by an Italian Wrestler as a way of branding it to make it seem connected to the Ancient Greco-Roman Hellenistic world. It's a way to make Modern Greco-Roman Wrestling appealing to many people. But that's a myth. Really, the real origin of Modern Greco-Roman Wrestling is that Modern Greco-Roman Wrestling originated as a collection of folk wrestling styles of 1700s AD France. It doesn't have a military origin. Them being folk wrestling styles means that they are not military in origin but village civilian past times. This means not highly technical or sophisticated in IQ and more for community boding or celebration games for rural countryside civilian villagers. That's what it means when people say Folk Wrestling. And that's only just Modern Greco-Roman Wrestling. I don't why people think that all of Amateur Wrestling originated in Ancient Greece when Freestyle and US Folkstyle are clearly different. Freestyle Wrestling came from British folk wrestling styles. There is no military origin. Again, them being folk wrestling styles means that they are not military in origin but village civilian past times. This means not highly technical or sophisticated in IQ and more for community boding or celebration games for rural countryside civilian villagers. Again, that's what it means when people say Folk Wrestling. As for US Folkstyle Wrestling, it is rooted in Freestyle Wrestling but with added rural folk wrestling origins from the first American settlers in what is now the USA. Due to this, US Folkstyle Wrestling also has influences from native American folk wrestling styles. So yeah, US Folkstyle Wrestling is originally a form of Folk Wrestling which means that they are not military in origin but village civilian past times. Again, this means not highly technical or sophisticated in IQ and more for community boding or celebration games for rural countryside civilian villagers. This is why special forces, military soldiers, law enforcement, and SWAT teams prioritize BJJ over Amateur Wrestling including highschool wrestling because special operators, cops, and soldiers have no time to do the physical conditioning of Amateur Wrestling who have nothing to offer in terms of techniques, strategies, and fight IQ while BJJ offers a lot of various techniques including very lethal ones. The physical conditioning of spec ops operators comes from their military conditioning. They have no need for Amateur Wrestling conditioning. US Navy Seal officials do recruit many US highschool wrestlers for their superb physical conditioning but there isn't any standardized Amateur Wrestling physical conditioning in any of the US military. It's also why a commando who is trained in BJJ dominates and survives real-life dangerous or war hand-to-hand combat or melee fights compared to a former-US-highschool-wrestler turned commando who has no BJJ training. The latter has no real edge over the former who is already great in physical conditioning due to his military spec ops training regime and the former will most likely kill the latter in a real hand-to-hand combat fight to the death in a war. Okay, you are most likely confused right now and are probably saying: “But Firu56Go, how can you say that Amateur wrestling has no strategy, techniques, nor fight IQ compared to striking arts such as Kyokushin, Muay-Thai, Boxing, Kickboxing, Shotokan, Taekwondo, etc. even though Amateur Wrestling is grappling? Grappling in general has far more IQ, techniques, and strategies than striking due to grappling using all of the body in far more diverse ways such as groundfighting, takedowns, takedown defense, body awareness, etc. while striking is just more into distance, timing, and limb marksmanships? This is evidenced by the fact that BJJ, a grappling art, is considered to be the most cerebral and intellectual martial arts and combat sports there is.” Again, STOP! Amateur Wrestling especially US Scholastic Wrestling(US highschool and also Collegiate) have absolutely no techniques, strategies, and fight IQ. Why do you idiots keep forgetting that?! But here's a fact: To be honest, your average untrained unwashed street fighter probably does far more techniques, strategies, and fight IQ than a US highschool Scholastic Folkstyle Varsity-Wrestler captain, an NCAA All-American Collegiate Wrestling champion, and a gold-medalist elite Olympic Wrestling champion all three combined including in the grappling aspects. Now why is this? It's because Amateur Wrestling athletes, especially US Folkstyle highschool athletes tend to be spoiled rotten by their physical conditioning. Their physical conditioning is so powerful that they are used to dominating and beating people they come across through sheer physicality without even thinking. Never underestimate Amateur Wrestling physical conditioning. At least, untrained street fighters are creative in tactics compared to Amateur Wrestlers. Also, another reason is that street fights and real fights have more factors and are unpredictable compared to the extremely rule-based sport of Amateur Wrestling especially US Wrestling Wrestling where there are so many rules. This is why untrained testosterone-filled rowdy drunken moronic street fighters have far more thinking and far more strategies than Amateur wrestlers especially US Scholastic Wrestlers do. So yeah, Amateur Wrestling is not a martial art and will never be. It is ultimately and fundamentally a sport. Not a martial art. Amateur Wrestling(Greco-Roman, Freestyle, and US Folkstyle Scholastic Highschool Wrestling) has no techniques, strategies, or fight IQ. I did not make this up. Plenty of highschool wrestlers especially the ones I personally know have said that they never really used techniques nor IQ and mostly just fought and won highschool wrestling matches through sheer physical power and sheer willpower. Highschool Wrestling like most US highschool sports(such as gridiron football, baseball, cheerleading, cricket, tennis, cross country, tracks, basketball, ice hockey, weightlifting, waterpolo, etc.) are primarily there to turn people into physically-fit confident people with great social and leadership skills and not into fighters nor martial artists. But this is not to discourage you guys from taking up Amateur Wrestling, especially highschool wrestling. The physical conditioning in Amateur Wrestling especially highschool wrestling is absolutely superb and will give you an amazing body. So if you want to become a military commandos, a bodyguard, an NFL player, a construction worker, or an NHL player, Amateur Wrestling(Greco-Roman, Freestyle, and US Scholastic Folkstyle) is a great way to be physically fit in those adult professions and adult careers. And again, when I mean by Amateur Wrestling physical conditioning, I mean that they are not skills. They are like going to the gym. They are baked into your body which means they become secondary instincts so when you wrestle in Amateur Wrestling, you don't even think about the physical conditioning at all. You just do them without even realizing it. But if you are just some person who is interested in the concept of martial arts techniques and combat IQ, then I am sorry but Amateur Wrestling especially US Folkstyle Highschool Wrestling will absolutely disappoint and bore you and will just make your life Hell because Amateur Wrestling physical conditioning is a hellish grind and will take up your whole teen life to the point like you have no other life. And that's not even counting their weightcutting which will then force you to eat foods you don't like and force you to not eat foods you like. Again, Amateur Wrestling especially US highschool Folkstyle Wrestling are not martial arts. If you take off techniques and fight IQ in martial arts, then they are no longer martial arts. Artistry is the main soul and essence of martial arts and combat science.

Sorry about this but this is a revised version of my original post because people found it to unpleasant to read. Anyways, this is for martial artists(Muay-Thai, BJJ, Judo, Kyokushin, Taekwondo, Shotokan, Boxing, Kickboxing, Kempo, Eskrima, etc.) or those interested in martial arts(Muay-Thai, BJJ, Kyokushin, Judo, Taekwondo, Shotokan, Boxing, Eskrima, Lethwei, Kajukenbo, etc.). If you guys want to try Amateur Wrestling especially US highschool wrestling because you think that Amateur-Wrestling(Greco-Roman, Freestyle, and US Folkstyle) are martial arts or combat science, YOU ARE ABSOLUTE FUCKING WRONG! Yes, many people often say that amateur wrestling makes great fighters but fighters and martial artists ARE NOT THE SAME! A fighter is simply just someone who fights while a martial artist is a combat artist that can be a person that avoids real fights. For example, an untrained street fighter is not a martial artist but he is clearly a fighter because fighting is what he does. Here's a thing about amateur wrestling. They ESPECIALLY US HIGHSCHOOL FOLKSTYLE WRESTLING do not have techniques or even fight IQ. They absolutely have zero when it comes to that. Okay, you are most likely confused right now and are probably saying: “But Firu56Go, why do people think that amateur wrestling is special and a great way to be a fighter if they have no techniques or fight IQ involved?” Well, Amateur Wrestling is not special because they “have techniques or fight IQ”. They are seen as special and a great background for fighters because of… Wait for it… THE GRIND!!! THE PHYSICAL CONDITIONING!! ALL OF IT!! PLUS THE WEIGHTCUTTING!!! That's exactly what sets amateur wrestling apart from martial arts(I didn't put “other” between “from” and “martial arts” because that would imply that amateur wrestling is a martial art, a combat science, or involves fight IQ, thinking, tactics, or strategy.). Not techniques, fight IQ, thinking, tactics, or strategies. The truth is that the training in Greco-Roman Wrestling, Freestyle Wrestling, and US Scholastic Wrestling are all 96% physical conditioning plus the weightcutting. And absolutely no learning techniques or experimenting and creating new techniques.

Is wrestling a martial art? Some martial artists from various non-wrestling backgrounds especially a significant number pre-UFC traditional martial artists didn't see wrestling as a martial art due to physical conditioning being the focus of wrestling. I am just curious. Do you especially your past selves see wrestling as a martial art? Is it a martial art?

There's really no competition or question about it. If you're asking me which sports are the most technical and the most meaningful out there, martial arts are. Martial arts especially in self-defense are the most intellectual and the most scientific out of all sports not just practicewise but also culturally. Nothing comes close. Gymnastics, American Football, Basketball, Cricket, Dancing, Parkour, Ice Hockey, Pool, Tennis, and Figure Skating don't even come close. Every single martial art such as Muay Thai, Sambo, Kyokushin, Judo, Shotokan, Ringen(Medieval German grappling, wrestling, and submissions), Kajukenbo, Krav Maga, Taekwondo, Fencing, Dutch Kickboxing, Buno(a type of Filipino wrestling that uses weapons), etc. is far more technical than any non-fighting sport in existence. There's something about martial arts that sets it apart from non-fighting sports and that is that it is a journey of personal development and also learning new things such as techniques constantly. Also, another thing that sets martial arts apart from many non-fighting sports is that martial arts, especially effective ones originated in real-life such as survival, self-defense, real conflicts, and real wars compared to other sports that mostly began as games. This is a big reason why martial arts are complex and complicated compared to other sports. Real life is complicated compared to games. There's so much diversity and adventure in martial arts. I would say that martial arts have a far bigger world and a much more diverse universe compared to other sports such as rugby, basketball, tennis, track and field, discus throw, waterpolo, swimming, archery, motorsports, equestrian, soccer, etc. Seriously, you can do so many things with martial arts whether they are self-defense, mixing various styles, developing new techniques, utilizing diverse environments as weapons, using everyday objects as weapons, psychological warfare, deception, reading people, etc. You won't ever get this diversity and diverse adventure in non-fighting sports. Also, martial arts are also far more meaningful and also have something to offer in terms of mythology, heroism, major history, and overall adventure. Many martial artists also get to explore the various cultures of the nations and ethnic groups of various martial arts styles as they learn more about the styles. Also, martial arts along with military strategies and tactics are the defining skills of warriors such as knights, samurai, etc. throughout history. Warriors along with philosophers and scientists were the ones who created and destroyed civilizations throughout history. Warriors and intellectuals are the real reason civilizations rose and fell. Warriors and intellectuals created history. How do the sports of ice hockey, lacrosse, badminton, golf, weightlifting, canoeing, skiing, volleyball, etc. compare to that? Also, martial arts compared to non-fighting sports have so many things going for it when it comes to making movies out of it. For example, there are literally many action movies about martial artists using their skills to fight gangsters or other types of villains for some meaningful cause. But what about non-fighting sports such as American Football, High Jump, Pole Vaulting, Javelin Throw, Baseball, Cheerleading, etc.? What can you even do with them? Like how would the protagonist use those skills against gangsters or other bad guys? I mean you can make movies about them where the protagonist undergoes a personal self-development journey about those non-fighting sports but you can't really do much like have badass heroes use those skills against bad guys the same way he uses his martial arts skills. Yes, the life of an NFL player and also his highschool gridiron football days are indeed full of glamour, popularity, career opportunities, girls, money, etc. but ultimately, everything he does is confined to that football field and also the crowds of fans he has. He would be nothing without his fans while martial artists will continuously be martial artists even without fans. Fans are ultimately what keeps his games and his sports going. For a person like me who is heavily into martial arts(I am a teen male who is a member of an intense BJJ dojo. I am also Kyokushin fighter.), Chess, and STEM(Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics), I wouldn't say that American football(not soccer) and all other non-fighting sports are boring and useless. No. Of course, that's ridiculous. They are certainly hugely beneficial in that they heavily develop social skills, large social circles, physical fitness, support structures, and careers but I wouldn't go as far as to make them my entire personality because that is just boring to me and personally for me, I will feel empty especially in the end. No offense. It's just me. I don't mean any disrespect to non-fighting sports but imagining myself as spending my whole life and defining my entire personality based on a huge soccer field especially as I enter elderly age and death seems like I lived in a golden cage without seeing the outside world. Ultimately, what I did was just games. I didn't really help people in truly meaningful ways like cure diseases, develop technology, use my martial arts skills in fighting a hardened violent career criminal to defend myself in an alley if he tries to rob me, solve crimes, etc. I also feel like my privacy is destroyed and also feel like my entire being and existence is chained to and heavily depends on the mainstream massive public crowd if I define my life based on non-fighting sports, especially team sports like basketball, baseball, and American football. Ultimately, I know that I would be nothing without the crowd who worships me. They're the reason why gridiron football players and basketball players thrive. So if any of you out there are athletes of team sports, especially full-contact ones, treat your fans and followers like friends and family. Don't condescend, take advantage of, or treat them like *I poop my pants, don't laugh at me*. They're the reason why you exist and the way you are. You are nothing without them. Your coaches and your training facilities are heavily funded because of the demands of your fans and followers wanting to watch you. Again, you are and would be nothing without them. But as for martial artists of various styles, they don't need fans. I have read about many obscure martial arts groups and schools(of obscure or foreign exotic fighting systems) who have deep passion for what they do even if the public ignores and doesn't even know they exist. They just like what they're doing and get the bonding and brotherhood from their fellow peers and teachers and not fans, outsiders, or the mainstream public. Team sport athletes, especially those of full-contact sports need their huge public crowds of fans and followers to feel complete about themselves in meaningful ways but martial artists don't. But martial artists exist by themselves even to the point of individuality. And this kind of freedom and privacy seem very serene and good in feeling. It's truly freeing. Compared to martial arts, non-fighting team sports like that seem artificial life and just games even to the point of being commercialized. And no, this isn't me *I poop my pants, don't laugh at me*ting on them. It's just how I feel in all honesty. Anyways, now back to the technicality part. By the way, some fans of mainstream team sports such as soccer, volleyball, baseball, basketball, hockey, American football, etc. say that they are just as technical as martial arts and their arguments are these: 1. Those team sports utilize teamwork when it comes to strategy and tactics. But this is very minimal in thinking compared to martial arts where you learn various techniques, combinations, body positioning, reading an opponent, transitioning from one style to another, combining styles, etc. and then applying all of those martial arts aspects in the middle of a sport martial arts fight. Also, most strategies and tactics of team sports rarely go according to plan because first, you ultimately can't read or control the minds and actions of your teammates regardless of cohesion and camaraderie so what happens is that the whole plan often gets abandoned. Second, enemy teammates often make sure and pressure your teammates into doing other things that are against your team's original plan. 2. This one is hilarious and downright comical. Those fans argue that basic movements in those team sports such as dribbling in basketball, soccer dribbling away from the enemy, volleyball spike, soccer bicycle kick, etc. require tactics, strategy, and thinking about them in the middle of the games. First of all, don't listen to those fans because that is the most ridiculous mistake you can make if you do. Those fans are crazy idiots. You get good at those basic body movements by practicing and drilling them over and over again to the point that they become instinct and you are able to do them efficiently without thinking about them. You don't think about them in the middle of the games like how some martial arts bullshido martial arts master tries his ridiculous fantasy techniques against real conflicts. It's funny because martial artists(the most technical sports) actually say that you don't think about inventing martial arts techniques in the middle of conflicts and just let your instinctive martial arts techniques born out of your martial arts training take over yet those stupid fans of those team sports say that you should think about doing those basic movements of those team sports in the middle of their games. Those fans are like the bullshido versions of non-fighting team sports. Many real-life athletes of those non-fighting team sports suffered multiple misfortunes for trying to heavily think about their basic moves in the middle of games. In real-life, most athletes of those non-fighting team sports do not spend the majority of their thinking and strategizing on their basic body movements and instead prioritize the majority of their brain power on their teammates and the enemy team such as when it comes to positions, locations, and proximity. I found it strange when I watched a video of a coach of a male American football saying that a basic touchdown of his sport requires the same technicality as a whole BJJ match and I also found it weird when some track-and-field athlete from my US public highschool said that his sport is as technical as Fencing. In my mind, I was like “What the f#%& are you talking about?!” without telling them in any way. Those people said them to me after my practice as a wrestler of my public highschool's male US Folkstyle Wrestling team. It was weird. _________ So yeah, if you're asking me which sports are the most technical, it's martial arts with BJJ being the most technical. It gets even more complicated in self-defense and real fights.