TylerDurden

He just destroyed the returning national runner up and took the 3rd place finisher to the wire. He's a contender.

I underestimated him after the close match with Bartlett. Never again. He's a title contender. Discuss.

Lewan wishes he was as offensive as J. Tsirtsis

Finally got to watch the replay and I thought Ohio State was better than expected. They certainly deserved more than 9 team points. They were never going to win the dual, but they should feel pretty good about their effort. Kilkeary was robbed. That's three (at least) all day. Bouzakis came out swinging and held on. It's a good win for a guy who looked lost earlier this year. Credit to Bartlett for blocking his way to a win. Mendez (or Menendez) couldn't get through that collar tie. The neutral danger was close, but it looked like Bartlett had the better position on that exchange via his counter and likely would have scored either way. Rogotzke is one of those guys you want to watch. Truax was having his way with him, until he was counting lights. Mesenbrink and Brooks are unreal. Kerk is stomping everyone across from him. The officiating left many things to be desired.

I see versions of this take across the sporting world and it's simply not true. It takes a ton of work to get to the top and even more to stay there.

Agreed. Great work and amazing first-hand memories. Dogbone's mention of the takedown scoring brought another thought to my mind about what could (would) be argued: how Division I has condensed since 1997. We've lost, give or take and by rough count, 25 Division I programs since Iowa won the 1997 title.

Who?

This feels like a Brooks/Starocci co-Hodge sort of year. KOT is the only other guy I think has a shot. 165 is insane and he's killing people. If he does something crazy vs. Carr, all bets are off and you can expect Starocci to Xweet something indignant in reply to the Hodge announcement.

Assuming Carr doesn't lose to anyone that isn't KOT and MM goes undefeated, I think you can make a realistic case for Carr at No. 3. Ramirez has two losses - KOT just majored him and he lost to Olejnik (who Carr just beat 8-1). Carr also has wins over Amine (dec), Hamiti (dec.) and Caliendo (major). The head-to-head happened so it can't be discounted, but when I look at the overall body of work to date, I think Carr has more substance. I'm pretty sure the NCAA seeding Gods won't agree with me in that hypothetical situation. Also, we should get to see Carr/O'Toole twice before that NCAA Tournament. Carr beat him twice last year (dual/Big 12 Champ). If that happens again we could see and unbeaten MM as the No. 1 seed. Regardless of how this plays out, 165 is a great weight class.

Was a great day of freestyle for him.

If this were last year, I'd agree completely, but this year's version of Bartlett hasn't been exposing anyone of note. He's only scored 9 points in three matches this year, twice against Lehigh wrestlers and against Maryland this weekend. He's definitely not a pushover - he's unbeaten after all - and I agree that his style makes for close matches, but he just looks a little off. Saying all of that, a conference dual against a top guy in your own gym tends to motivate people, so who knows. Also, I'm pretty sure that the only thing that matters for Bartlett at this point is the NCAA tournament, so maybe he's using the regular season to condition and work on situational wrestling in live matches. He's probably playing 3D chess with Cael and will tech his way through the NCAAs.

Take the under.

I thought Ohio State was going to be whipped by Michigan, so I'm definitely not going to take them to win more than one match against Penn State - assuming both teams are at full strength. I think Mendez is the the only OSU wrestler I'd predict a win for and that's against a guy ranked No. 2 in the country, so I think it's safe to say that's in the toss-up category...even if I think Mendez is in full beast mode and might walk out with a major That said, PSU won't send everyone out there and OSU will win 2-3 matches. Nagao might get 3 minutes of riding time against Bouzakis.

Indiana with a win over Purdue. The Hoosiers won seven matches. Good to see Brayton Lee back on the mat. 125 Matt Ramos (Purdue) over Michael Spangler (Indiana) (Dec 8-6) 133 Cayden Rooks (Indiana) over Jacob Macatangay (Purdue) (MD 11-2) 141 Danny Fongaro (Indiana) over Christian White (Purdue) (Dec 5-2) 149 Graham Rooks (Indiana) over Marcos Polanco (Purdue) (Dec 5-4) 157 Brayton Lee (Indiana) over Joey Blaze (Purdue) (Dec 4-2) 165 Stoney Buell (Purdue) over Tyler Lillard (Indiana) (Dec 5-1) 174 Donnell Washington (Indiana) over Brody Baumann (Purdue) (Dec 9-4) 184 Roman Rogotzke (Indiana) over James Rowley (Purdue) (SV-1 6-3) 197 Ben Vanadia (Purdue) over Gabe Sollars (Indiana) (SV-1 6-3) 285 Nick Willham (Indiana) over Tristan Ruhlman (Purdue) (Dec 4-2) Team Score: Indiana 22 Purdue 9

I'm assuming he didn't develop a skin issue on the way to Columbus, so my guess is they either 1) didn't check beforehand so they didn't know (unlikely, IMO); 2) thought he'd pass the skin check; OR 3) were playing 3D Chess because they knew about the skin issue, knew he wouldn't pass the check and still only took him at 141 to perfectly execute the duck and make it look like it wasn't there choice. The dual turned out to be much more interesting than it would have been with a full Michigan lineup, though I have to credit Ohio State. OSU ran out two true freshman, three RS freshman, and a sophomore against a lineup where almost everyone could be enrolled in continuing education courses, plus the two kids they tutor. Ragusin was super composed in his match with Bouzakis. That was a savvy veteran win. Gomez was pretty impressive. Hepner v. Mantanona was fun. Rogotzke dismantled Bullock Feldman's win over Davison was entertaining. Davison looked much larger, much like Kerk appeared against Davison.

You still have time to delete this post.

I know this is a Cinnabon thread, but the fact that we're even entertaining the idea that PSU could be in play for 70% of the individual national champions speaks to the current state of that program. I do not think seven is going to happen, but IMO they have guys at 157, 165, 174, 197 and HWT who could win the title and are big favorites at three weights. Hell, there is a chance they could put seven in the finals if Bartlett and Truax come through. Ten AAs is on the table, for sure. On first thought, I see them like this: 125 - wild weight, but I don't think Davis is a sure AA, much less a national champ. - R12/Low AA 133 - Nagao would need some things to go wild in the bracket to win, but he's a dangerous wrestler who can ride. - AA 141 - Bartlett is good and is going to AA, probably pretty high and could even make the final. I'm just not convinced that he's going to beat Woods and/or Mendez in the same tournament. IMO his style makes him vulnerable to close matches versus guys like Happel, Jack, etc., which makes for a tough NCAA tournament. - AA 149 - Kasak/Evans, whoever, isn't winning the title. If it's Kasak, I think he's likely a R12, mainly because I don't think 149 is all that daunting this year and there are a ton of young guys. I wouldn't be surprised if he snuck into a low AA - R12 157 - Haines could win it all, though there are plenty of landmines at 157. - AA 165 - Mesenbrink is 100% a title contender, but beating Carr, O'Toole, Hamiti is a tall task and he'll likely need to beat at least two of them in the NCAA tournament. After watching him dismantle Amine, I wouldn't put it past him. - AA 174 - Starocci is the favorite. - AA 184 - 184 is pretty fluid, to me. Truax is a likely AA and could make the final with the right draw. AA 197 - Brooks is the favorite - AA HWT - Kerk is the favorite - AA

I can promise you the type of person you just described is not at all limited to people younger than 40 years old.

Lemley was one of the guys who impressed me against Penn State. I think he's a guy who has the potential to be a multi-time AA. As good as he is now and will be in the future, I don't think he's quite ready for this version of Jesse Mendez. I know Lemley's close match with Bartlett opened some eyes and probably elevated him to a lot of folks, but Bartlett's style welcomes close matches while Mendez is trying to wreck everyone in front of him. Mendez has bonus points in 15/18 matches this year. He's majored Hardy, majored and teched Cornella, and has two wins over Jack (including a fall). He also beat Happel (who majored Lemley) in the dual with UNI. I'm not saying there's no chance for Lemley to keep it close, but it's going to take a pretty big effort, thus my guess of a major. Frankly, if Ohio State and Penn State were wrestling this week, I'd be tempted to take Mendez by major over the version of Bartlett we saw against Lemley.

125: DeAugustino dec McCrone 3-0, Michigan 133: Ragusin dec Bouzakis 6-0 Michigan 141: Mendez major dec Lemley 6-4 Michigan 149: Gomez dec D'Emilio 9-4 Michigan 157: Lewan dec Wilcox 12-4 Michigan 165: Amine dec Hepner 15-4 Michigan 174: Griffith dec Welsh 18-4 Michigan 184: Bullock dec Shumate 21-4 Michigan 197: Geog dec Striggow 21-7 Michigan 285: Davison dec Feldman 24-7 Michigan I'm a bit surprised I'm picking such wide of a margin on my first run through, giving 8/10 matches to Michigan. I guess I'm hedging and taking experience over youth and giving every match I would consider a toss-up to Michigan. I don't have a ton of confidence that it goes this way in the end. OSU is at home and it's a rivalry. I can envision a scenario where Ohio State gets off to hot start, sweeps every match from 125 through 149 and wins the dual.

If you haven't spent time on IndianaMat.com are you a true American?

At least part of the motivation to increase the value of a takedown was to motivate both wrestlers to pursue takedowns (create action) throughout a match. The situation you described does just that. Technical Falls, as opposed to major decisions, show dominance, i.e. technical superiority. Majors reward something short of dominance, but the increased takedown valuation requires a shift in match strategy to either secure or eliminate the eight-point margin. I personally find that much more interesting for the drama and strategic adjustments it requires.

You've just described a feature, not a flaw.

The problem with this take is that the majority of Michigan wrestlers did not attempt attacks, so it's pretty tough to argue that they used the position as any sort of setup. As a stall, sure. Maybe they had a bad night. Maybe they were scared of their opponent's abilities. Maybe they don't trust their ability to get a takedown. I don't really know what the rationale was for that approach, but whatever it was, it definitely wasn't successful.

I do not hate Michigan, I actually think they have a nice team, but the majority of their guys didn't attempt anything resembling an offensive move last night. PSU smoked them last night, and it wasn't because of reattacks. You can't reattack a collar tie.