scourge165

Nope! Side note, these debates get me going back and watching older Wrestlers...like Mocco vs Rowlands, and honestly, the "best Wrestler ever" debate just gets sillier. These guys are ALL sooooo close. Again, Rowlands, a serious injured very possibly stopped him from winning his 3rd and he lost a TBer in the Finals as a Freshmen at HWT...a Freshmen who'd been a 103 in HS. He was a HWT with over 700 career TDs and 164 career wins. If HE'D just gotten done Wrestling, we'd likely be debating about where he comes in all time.

This is not only perfectly reasonable, but it's the consensus among Wrestling fans, aficionado's, experts...and even those like LBJ!!! In other words, everyone knew how it'd likely play out in 2020! (I kid, I kid...I don't want another round).

My mistake, I thought he ended up getting pinned. I knew he wrestled back for 3(which I did NOT see happening at the time) and that he worked Amuchastegui over pretty good the next year. That tournament my view on Ruth did a complete 180 and his toughness. I thought he'd MFF out, watching it live, I thought he kinda quit(I was very wrong, you can tell he tweaked something early in that match with a 2-1 lead). And you watch him getting turned and the Stanford kid is really working on that right leg. So for Ruth to come back as a Freshmen and get 3rd...that impressed the hell out of me.

WHAAAAT! The hell are you saying? That Jimmy McGill-Cinnabon isn't the most legitimate source? I don't know. He's never led me astray...if you ignore the overwhelming majority of his posts!

Because it's usually not one Wrestler and it slows down scoring and can cause match stoppages with Mekhi Lewis type fingers. It's not Wrestling... The Bavarians have something like this. They can do that. It doesn't accomplish anything and is generally a way to slow the match down.

I mean, he may lose in a H2H with Spencer Lee per Wrestlestat, but he was/is arguably the greatest HWT ever...with respect to Tommy Rowlands who went 2,1,6,1 Actually got injured in the Semi's in a match he was likely to win and then a TB loss as a Freshmen, the only thing stopping him from being the only D1 Wrestler to win 3 Titles at HWT, but still...2,1,6,1 with a legit injury...for a guy who started at 103 in HS, THAT'S impressive. So GOAT Wrestler to start at 103 and finish as a 4X AA, 3X Finalist, 2X Champ at HWT-Tommy Rowlands! Boom...another one Better Call Saul's Character can't start a topic over!

If Askren were to win any, it'd be grip and shoulder flexibility. I don't think he ever gave up a TD on a go-behind if he could lock his hands around the leg above the knee. I remember Herbert...when it looked like Ivan Drago vs "a bag of Milk," ...as Jake Paul put it, and Herbert had both hands and all his hip pressure trying to break Askren's lock and could-not-do it. Neutral Goat-Stephan Abas Single Leg Goat-Lincoln Mcllravy(I'm counting the boot scoot as a single since...well, he drags and then goes into a single and there's not arm drag) Low Single Goat-...c'mon...too easy Blast Double-Gable Stevenson Running Double Goat-Stephen Neal Best Foot Sweep-Steve Mocco(Steve/Stephens are REALLY born to be great Wrestlers). Sprawl Goat-Andrew Howe Hi-C- Kolat Firemans- Dan Gable Escape Goat-I don't know...all the best. You can't be a stud if you're ridden. Though...I'd say Zain was the quickest to get out. Reversals Goat-Bo Nickal-- Bryce Andronian would be up there, but...ya know, gotta win an NC to be on the list. Best Wrestling Announcer-SANDY STEPHENS and ED ALIVERTI! Now-The REAL GOATS Best spinning submission moves in an unwinnable match- Austin DeSanto Best pre-match Warm-up- Iowa State Old School Robes Weirdest philosophy not supported by Science to maximize testosterone -Ryan Deakin Best Celebratory Backflip interrupted by angry Iowian=Darian Caldwell Most blank expression regardless of match scenario-Mark Hall Best sideways coach clap by a non-coach- Moriah Marinelli Wrestler God loves the most-Every Wrestler who's won Wrestler who's urine analysis would break USADA's drug testing...Goat- Brock Lessner And MOST importantly...most HUMBLE Wrestler/Inmate-AJ Ferrari(Man I wish I knew what this guy could deadlift...but he's so shy about sharing his physical accomplishments).

I mean, it happens in Wrestling. I wrestled at different kids clubs and they tried to get me to Wrestle at X High School, we were always getting this State Champ who was friends of a guy on our team JUUST at that weight we needed most. And...we DID get transfers and so did other schools. So to think it wouldn't happen in College with programs like PSU, Iowa, or some of the programs...it's kinda silly.

I know Ruth was pinned vs...the Stanford kid(he was just abused on top and down ~11-2 and I don't wanna say he gave up...but he kinda gave up). And Jones after winning it I THINK he got pinned on the backside vs an MSU kid.

SMH...how did I miss that! It was right there! My bad

Why what?

Joseph, Hall...potential 1/1/2/1 and a 1/2/2/1. Both had the chance to jump tiers if not for the cancellation. As for the argument that Lee would have won if 2020 was wrestled...everyone thought he'd win THIS year, he didn't. Sucks for him.

I strongly agree with the bold. You can just use a formula to come up with the best Wrestlers ever. It doesn't take into account that David Taylor was undefeated as a Freshmen and got caught in a bit of a fluke pin vs a former runner-up or that his OTHER losses were to a 4X Champ and one of the Greatest ever. In all of these I will argue it's silly to just rank them as though there is no context. I'll put Lee over Stieber...IMO. I'm just taking College dominance. I'll also put Mcllravy over Lee. It's hard to come up with a top 20-25 ranking. Ben Askren couldn't beat ONE Wrestler. Is he really behind ALL 3X National Champs? Now, I don't agree with the last part, the best to ever do it, but I get why you're saying that. He was uniquely dominant for a 125. I think it's easier/smarter to rank or compare the best at weights. So 118/125 it's Abas(4/1/1/1 144-4 career record) and Lee(1/1/1/6) 98-6 career record) as the two best IMO. Abas had two losses to Jurgens from Iowa and then one when he bumped up to Wrestle Guerrero in a great match(4-3 I believe). Lee's were a little more spread out, but he was more dominant in his wins. Produced more team points.

Once in a lifetime talent was REALLY pushing it. He's great. But the Arujau I just watched work over Fix and RBY looked as slick and as dominant on his feet as anyone. Gilman didn't exactly blow Vito off the mat the last time they Wrestled. IIRC, it was 2-1 Gilman with him winning the 3rd on Criteria and Vito doing most of the attacking that match. Spencer Lee's a stud. If we're talking about his Olympic Gold in...~16 months, I don't think people will be shocked. Will people really be shocked if he DOESN'T win Gold in London? Kinda wild how being SKEPTICAL that he's going to win the Olympics is like spitting on Mother Teresas' grave or something...sacrilege!

Can't make this crap up. The hell you can't! You just did Lets break this down; Hmm...never actually said I don't think he'll perform. I said I'm skeptical given how he was taken down fairly often on his feet. Did someone say it was ridiculous for someone else to believe he WOULD have success in Freestyle? Or was it more the Twitter-ish response? YUP! People DEFINITELY saying they "don't think he CAN perform," and that it's "ridiculous" if someone else does! The reasoning...or reading can be very selective on here at times.

I'd bet money that IF someone affiliated with the program contacted him, it was a Wrestler who knows him. I'm not saying the Sanderson's or Cunningham are morally beyond openly recruiting a guy(though...I find it hard to believe they'd risk the potential sanctions or any trouble). I know of Two AAs that had people tied to multiple teams say, "you should come to...." It's generally just in passing...as I understand it.

Hildebrandt was in his 7th year, came in at the semester and...IDK, feels different than a kid coming in with 3 years left in his career. That's just on the Mat. I don't know anything about either off the mat beyond there is an ugly accusation(that seems pretty credible) about Noto off the mat. I'm also of the mind that he's a kid and should be able to redeem himself from something like that...and it'd be up to PSU or anyone else to determine if he has. Finally, I do agree with whoever said they'd prefer he stay at a Mid Major. I like seeing kids from Lock Haven and Lehigh and Cal Poly, Northern Col, etc...wrestling in big matches. So I don't really care if I'm being honest...beyond something I stated in a previous post that I don't necessarily think it's great for the sport to have one program that's SO completely dominant and you could be bringing in a possible title contender here. And even if he is "just" another Hildebrandt, I think he gets a looked over a bit. IRC, all of his losses were to pretty damn good Wrestlers as he went through the heart of PSU's schedule coming in Jan. Anyway, this all seems like a Keyser Soze...just made up out of thin air. Until I actually see that he's in the TP or whatever, it's just a hypothetical.

As in personally. I don't know anything about him personally, I don't know exactly how or when he injured his shoulders. I don't know anything about a lot of Wrestlers and I can tell their studs from who they've Wrestled, beaten, how closely they've lost tight matches, how they do at the NCAAs as a True Freshmen. And he should have 4 years left. I don't really care about Noto...and I really don't see any correlation between he and Hildebrandt.

Well...as one PSU fan would have you believe, they NEED David Carr if they hope to win another Title next year! "Need" being the key word! Seriously though, I'm rooting for Robbie Howard. I don't know anything about him, OTHER than his rough start trying to rehab that shoulder without surgery...which is real hit or miss. As someone who had that issue, I rehabbed mine, spend 4-5 hours a day for about 4 months trying to strengthen my shoulder with the trainer and got it back to where I thought it was stronger than ever....and then on a simple shot, got extended and it came out and had the surgery....which was an absolute nightmare. Shoulder surgery is a HELLUVA lot more painful than an knee, hip, pretty much anything other than a back or a neck and I'm just guessing on the last two as I was lucky enough to never have to deal with either. Anyway, the kid is a stud and I hope he can have a Beau Bartlett type coming out party this year. He was Rd of 12/16. Whatever it was, he came back and Wrestled one AA caliber Wrestler after another...

It's an inexcusable thing to say, but lets keep in mind not only do we not know if this is true, what context it was used in, he would have been 18-19 years old. People grow. Andrew Long was an egregious mistake, but I still think Cael and company WOULD be very...careful about this type of situation and would speak to the black athletes, get a feel for what their thoughts are(really the whole team, but specifically their 4 starters who are black) and IF he chose to give Noto a chance, it'd likely be because they believe he's learned and...just gotten better.

It's not that interesting; https://guides.loc.gov/latinx-civil-rights/cuban-adjustment-act

I'm pretty sure it's different with Cubans. Johnson signed a bill in the 60's that allows Cubans who make it to the US to become citizens after a year in the Country...I believe. It's not the same as a refugee or immigrant coming up from a Latin American Country claiming asylum. It's much easier for Cubans. That's why the Cuban Gov't sent something like ~100,000 prisoners and people housed in mental health facilities to the US. Because they knew they wouldn't be sent back.

No...I'm saying that was the joke. The insults were the underlying tension between the two. He also calls her an "ignorant slut." I don't think that's how men think...so that's kinda a reach.

I mean...not that much, I just kinda took the interaction as how a Male and a Female anchor may feel about each other in the...what was that, late 70s, early 80s? Basically saying the stuff in their head instead. No? You think I'm reaching there? Maybe Anchorman and a Documentary I saw on Tucker Carlson's Dad is skewing my POV.

May we all "fail" to meet out expectations such as Max Dean and have a career in which we got 125-18 and 8,2,1,7 in 4 contested tournaments! I suspect he's talking about the Ivies not wrestling in 2021. He lost the year in 2021 and that's probably a point of contention for him. He lost out on another year of Wrestling. Not sure that he wins it in '21 with Brooks at '84 or Ferrari, but I'm sure HE believe he'd have won it. Though...Brooks Freshmen year(RS). Dean would have been a tough match. I also think Dean should have been an '84 the last two years, but...when the best Wrestler in the Country over that period(arguably) is at your weight...