BruceyB

I just went back and looked. I did not realize that Zahid was a controversial headgear pull away from being a likely 3x NCAA champion that would have been denied a chance to win his 4th. Great call.

To be fair, there is a good chance that Spencer would have been our rep several times during his college career if he didn't have to spend every off-season rehabbing.

With all the fuss about the ambiguity and lack of criteria with Flo's Quarter-Century team, let's hear your quarter-century team picks led by your heart. Whether your criteria includes nostalgia, homer picks, favorite to watch, accolades, etc. your picks, your rules. Ideally, give a little note for why each wrestler earned the pick from your heart. My list: 125: Abas - the highlights are just too smooth. When people talk about how good of neutral wrestlers California boys are, Abas is the embodiment. 133: JO - similar to Abas, JO had so many ways to score in neutral.. doubles, picks, slidebys, ducks, low singles, and he crunched almost everyone at 133 from top with a cross-face cradle. 141: Stieber - just an all-time favorite wrestler of mine to watch. such a positive attitude in every interview, seemed like an awesome teammate and leader, and he was an absolute hammer. I don't understand how it seems like almost he alone has been able to use the bar-half series in such a devastating fashion. 149: Metcalf - this is a big nostalgia pick for me. Metcalf was the face of Iowa and essentially college wrestling when I first started actively following NCAA wrestling. His pressure and ability to break guys was something I hadn't seen before. A match could be within a point going into the 3rd and then his opponent would break and he'd start drilling takedowns on them for a major, tech, or pin. 157: Nolf - non-stop action, fun scrambles, never a boring match. 165: Dieringer - he'll never be the face of 165 because unfortunately for him, you have the legends of Burroughs, Dake, and David Taylor that all came before him and dominated the NCAA level, and then blocked his path ever making a world team. He's a fairly forgotten figure for how good he was for so long. 174: Askren - if anyone can watch the floflim Funky and not be a fan of Ben's wrestling, that would be shocking. 184: Ruth - one of the most exciting 184s 197: Sanderson - obvious reasons, also not sure who else would be in the running at 197? I never watch Rosholt. 285: Mocco - I haven't watched a lot of HWT from the 2000s but from the flodoc, Mocco sounds like he was a Gable type freak coming into college, and he seems like a really solid dude.

Not a stepping stone program like Kent State. Burroughs name is so big in the sport that he could likely have a shot at just about any job in college wrestling. He won't have to prove himself as a coach by raising a smaller program to success before landing a job at a big time program. I do think Rutgers would be an interesting move given he'd be back home and in a hotbed of wrestling talent. A name like Burroughs attached to the program could potentially keep a lot of Jersey kids from leaving the state.

If you have any idea of the time stamp, I'd love to give it a listen.

My heart picks them as well.

From what I've gleaned, I believe he encourages parents to have their kids just wrestle a normal kids league wrestling season, and not to spend time and money taking them to things like Tulsa, Reno, or other national tournaments where the winning kids are mostly coming from more grind'em young and start winning as soon as possible type clubs. For the AWA model, they don't train their kids at a young age in a way that would make them competitive on the national level. It's not that the younger kids don't compete, they just aren't wrestling 100 matches a year like some. Not that that is relevant to Ben's health. I keep checking here hoping to hear some promising news. Hopefully good news comes soon.

I'm going to do my list based on trying to put together the best line-up of an athlete during the year they competed at the weight class. ie: Kyle Dake is not making the team as a FR at 141 over Logan Stieber, and Dake isn't making the team as a SO over SR Retherford. 125: a healthy Lee - I think it's a toss-up between Abas and Spencer, but with the mat involved, edge Spencer. 133: Vito - I don't think anyone could touch NCAA tournament Vito at 133. The way he dominated Fix in 2023, and then handled 2x defending champ RBY is a legendary run. 141: Stieber 149: Retherford 157: Dake 165: Burroughs 174: Starocci - I'd love to pick Askren, but I think Starocci is too disciplined to start rolling around with Ben. 184: Brooks - I'd pay a lot of money to watch a match between him and Nickal or Ruth though. 197: Sanderson 285: Steveson - in one match, who would you pick to beat a prime Steveson?

Bro, why are you so combative about such insignificant topics? You went on and on about Cape vs Cabo, and now you're digging your heels in about how it's possible that Sergio Vega may not have been accepted to West Point in an alternate universe where he applied? You're trying to play "gotcha" against @BigRedFan by pointing out a hypothetical flaw in his statement that if Vega can get into Cornell that he could likely get into West Point.

Sure, maybe if you're talking about match-ups between top 10-15 guys. But I'd imagine the top 10-15 guys are pinning just about every unranked heavyweight in D1 wrestling.

I don't have a way of looking it up, but I'd imagine more falls happen at HWT vs any other across D1 wrestling.

In what bracket did we not have turns at HWT? Are we ignoring falls because there wasn't "nearfall" given?

I apologize. I must have missed where he said that. Regardless, the original point of criticizing Ferrari's ability to turn really holds no water when it comes to the ability to win a national title. Gable Steveson and Kyle Snyder had as little top game as anyone. They did okay. And they couldn't ride nearly as well as AJ.

Not sure what this has to do with Caveira's point. You don't need to be able to turn on top to win a National title. How many career nearfall points/pins did Kyle Snyder have?

I don't understand this. Cole might actually be smaller than Ferrari, and I don't see anyway that he scores a takedown in that match. Ferrari is literally the epitome of a technically sound wrestler. His gaps might be in his variety of offense, but he is as technically sound as they come.

Jimmy is slacking today. I expected two new threads by now.. "Is Ferrari the favorite next year at HWT?" and "Will Beau Bartlett end the PSU era?... If Beau exposes what's been going on behind the scenes at PSU, will Cael be fired and the PSU era be over?"

I haven't rewatched the McDonough and Robles match in a long time. Robles really didn't do a thing those last 4 minutes. Robles never gets on top of Spencer. Spencer wins. The real question is could Spencer tilt Robles?

The flo crew just calls them "roofers."

This is quite the comedic masterpiece. Granted, I skipped through it in about 5 minutes. The camera work and video editing is actually really well done which makes it even funnier. She's stressing about being 2 pounds over the day before weigh-ins.. her running in a leather jacket and leggings to "lose the weight." Her doing her best Louden Swain impression by doing burpees in the casino and squats in the elevator (make every second count!) and then she gets teched 10 immediately, and then the description of her second match was "she lasted twice as long." The fact that Ms. Berrington spent the time and resources to make this 20 minute documentary that results in her getting teched twice in an uncompetitive fashion is absolutely hilarious. What's the thought process here? I know nothing about her or her story, but consider me a fan.

I appreciate the honesty after watching the second angle. I haven't taken a side by the way. I just wanted to hear what people (like yourself) think when they actually understand what I am asking. I have mixed feelings on the topic, and that's why I asked. To hear other's opinions. I do believe Fix has responsibility in the collision. He chose to be in a three point stance to presumably prevent Vito from shooting him out. Vito said, "watch me." Of course we don't ban the double, but I was curious if people thought it was fair game to shoot through someone's face if they are in a three point, or down on a knee. IMO it is a violent collision that often results in one or both parties with notable gashes, which is why I thought it was worth a conversation. I have no problem if you think it's the defending wrestlers position to not allow himself to be in such a vulnerable position. That's why I asked the question. I feel like now we're on the same page and you expressed your thought clearly in that last sentence.

My brother in Christ, this is literally what happened in this sequence. Watch the other angle at 17:40, . I'm trying to be respectful, but in back to back posts you are denying what undisputedly did happen. There was direct head to face contact, and Fix's head snapped up and back. Then immediately after, he looks at the ref with his palm up like, "you saw that right?" Then he again shows the ref the gash on his eye following the sequence.

This is literally what happened. So if you're going to deny that Vito's head collided directly into Daton's face, then there is no point in bringing up intentionality, or whether there should be a stoppage when there is a hard head to head collision. I just think it's ironic that we stop action for an accidental eye poke, but allow for continuation after a violent head to head collision.

You are going to tell me that Vito did not intentionally lower the crown of his head and blast through Daton's face on this shot? Does he always shoot with his head down and eyes looking at the mat? Fix's head was in the same spot the entire time, and Vito said "you leave your head in my way, I'm going to blast through it." It's absurd to say to say this was an accident. Jordan Burrough's on the call argued when Cormier said "Jordan, that's a headbutt!" by saying "that's just good clean wrestling" which of course he would say because he's put his head through more faces than maybe anyone. He recognized the tactic and gave kudos to Vito for not being afraid to blow through his opponents face. Edit: If you want to put the onus on Fix to not have his face in a vulnerable position, I can understand that. Don't take a three point stance if you aren't ready for someone to shoot through your face. But don't pretend like all of these collisions are "accidental."

I'd put them in a different order, but you could mix this group in a number of ways and have a strong case. This group kind of reminds me of the old B10 174 group with Kokesh, Brown, Storley, and Evans. It'll be interesting to see if they trade wins and losses, or if they sort themselves out in a more established order over their college careers.

Are you sure? This looks a lot like an *intentional collision of heads* to me. Watch the slow-motion replay at 17:40 and let me know if you think that is good clean wrestling, or a situation that should be avoided. I'm not being sarcastic, I'm genuinely interested if you watch the slow-motion replay and think that Vito used a clean wrestling tactic. Edit: Let's take away the semantics of calling it a headbutt. We'll call it intentional head to head collision.