BruceyB

How do you really feel? Quite a warrior you are.

NVM: answered above.

It was nice of you to prove @VakAttack's point. Iowa gets dragged over the coals for bringing in outside talent along with just about everything else they do (sometimes by myself, admittedly). But meanwhile PSU brings flips Jayden James, brings in a world champion in Ono, and now Rocco Welsh within 4 days of each other and I haven't heard much if any criticism about their lack of loyalty to the wrestlers that committed to them. A lot of rocks being thrown from the glass house.

@Wrestleknownothing and @maligned.. thank you. I should have known better than to bother engaging.

The difference is that you used to get multi-time All-Americans and occasional national champions from smaller schools. The odds of that happening in the current landscape is very unlikely. The thought throughout most of college wrestling's history when a small school produced a young AA was that their program was on the rise, and they were doing good things there. They might produce their first National Champion, they might continue to build and set a school best in NCAA placement in upcoming years.. etc. Now the first thought when someone has success from a smaller school is "where are they going to wrestle next year?" Now it's a surprise if a guy sticks around at a smaller school rather than jump to the higher bidding bigger program. How you don't think it's much different from before, I can't wrap my head around. Smaller schools will continue to lose damn near every single one of their AA caliber wrestlers. There is no more "building up" a smaller program. You can only build up individuals and serve as a development program for the bigger schools.

This is what I hope helps brings some significant change to the current landscape. Especially in the recent NIL era, scholarships are obsolete because collectives can essentially fun unlimited scholarships for programs with money. If you have the money, you can have 100 people on your roster getting full ride scholarships. However, once you have to consider who makes your roster, and who you want to make space for, a lot of talent will be dispersed. This is the same reason professional sports have roster limits.. If they didn't.. who knows.. the Dodger's might have the best 25 man roster in the MLB and then an entire farm system of MLB caliber players who are making more money sitting in AAA than they would be making at an entry level deal for another MLB team.

I envision the Cam Amine / Bartlett excitement for years to come from young Gabe. He'll never meet a 1 TD match he doesn't like.

Okay if they are essentially predictions, who will be ranked #1 and #2 at 157 to start next season?

Sure, a backup from one of the big teams might be good enough to go somewhere else and get on the podium, but that doesn't mean that the top talent isn't being more heavily condensed in the bigger programs than ever. The top programs will continue to steal the top wrestlers from smaller programs and due to this, smaller programs will get the lesser wrestlers that transfers out as a result.. SDSU getting Siebrecht, Rhodes, and Glazier is not a positive for the sport. SDSU was able to get those three because Iowa took the top wrestlers from NDSU, Oklahoma, and Arizona State and condensed the talent that used to exist on 3 teams not named Iowa, to now 1 team named Iowa. This year Oklahoma State's line-up consisted of 6 wrestlers from Minnesota, Michigan State, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Air Force. That talent was spread across 5 different programs not named Oklahoma State. This year, condensed to one program.. Oklahoma State. Just between Iowa and Oklahoma State this year, they had absorbed talent from 8 different programs into just two. You think Zeth Romney is going to finish his career at Cal Poly?

Yes. Death to college sports as we have known them is currently taking place. There is a reason that this is the most chalk March Madness in NCAA Men's Basketball of the last 20 years. Mid-Major schools are getting their stars plucked and the talent is being concentrated into fewer and fewer schools.

Buddy, rankings try to be objective based on results that have happened. They are not predictions. Keep going though..

I just don't even know what to say at this point. I'm sad, disappointed, and find it hard to see any change on the horizon. I can't help but think that between NIL and the freedom of that transfer portal, the reason we all have loved college sports is gone. Commitment.. gone. Loyalty.. gone. Parity (even the little we once had in wrestling).. gone. It's similar to this past week in March Madness. Because of the poaching of athletes from mid-majors, this was the first time in 17 years that every single 1-4 seed won in the first round. March Madness has lost a significant part of the madness because with the freedom of the transfer portal and the NIL money, talent is constantly funneled into the stronger programs with more money to spend. Until we can find some form of regulations in college athletics, this is what we have to look forward to.

There isn't much that is technical about ranking. You take into effect results of what happens and adjust accordingly. If you were going to provide preseason rankings that had to stand-up to the results of the season, you might have a point.. but ranking a group of athletes based on the previous seasons results and than adjusting them based on what happens really isn't that difficult. I start with this years NCAA tournament qualifiers and how they performed and make an initial 1-33.. guys who beat them/lose to outsiders get adjusted accordingly. I'm not sure how this is supposed to be so hard to do?

I'd think Berge would be an easier target. If McEnelly leaves Minnesota, I don't even know what to say about college wrestling anymore.

I didn't realize doing college rankings was such a lucrative business.

EXCEPT for.. I was talking about predicting team scores in March. And I don't think ranking is really all that difficult. The websites that publish their own rankings obviously have the time and resources to be thorough in knowing the relevant starters for 70ish or so teams. They start with last years results and then shuffle guys around based on the results the following year. Seeding is even easier because they literally just put numbers into a matrix and it seeds the wrestlers and the seeding committee can make slight adjustments where they see it necessary.

The fact that you have a much more sophisticated model than our top wrestling organizations is truly astounding.

The list of 2x champs is so long that it's almost impossible to narrow it down to even a reasonable top 10. That being said, David Taylor and Ben Askren are 2x champions and 2x hodge winners. How many wrestlers have two hodges?

2/10 troll. I would have given more points if you suggested he threw that match to show the WWE that he wasn't afraid to take a dive. Doing something for the sport the he abandoned for two years doesn't exactly line-up with his priorities.

If I'm understanding you correctly.. If Coleman Scott took over for John Smith, OKST wouldn't have likely been anything other than the same OKST, just with a new name at Head Coach. Likewise, if Tom Ryan retired and Jaggers, Stieber, or anyone else took the helm, it's unlikely that there would be a notable improvement. I think it's fair to put both Iowa and Ohio State in the same category (and Oklahoma State before the big change). It's easy to say "replace the head coach" but the real problem is there aren't many guys that you would expect to have any more success if given the keys to the program. I think if Ryan is considering taking a step back anytime soon, Schwab is a very legitimate candidate. I'd be curious what he could do with at a bigger program with higher-end recruits. He seems to be of a similar "family first" kind of team mindset.

There is no doubt about that.

Wow. I was completely unaware of this. Absurd.

I would argue that he was taken down by Frost in the bloodround and shouldn't have even placed this year. I don't think it's a given that he repeats this years tournament. But more importantly, I think when you are trying to establish a new culture as a second year head coach, bringing an outsider in over 2 highly talented guys coming out of redshirt could be a risk. That being said, the OKST coaching staff knows what they have better than I do, and if they don't see the potential in those two guys to make an impact this year, then you're right. It would be a no brainer.

Does OSU need a 133? They have McComas and Sakamoto coming out of redshirt. It's possible, but it doesn't seem like the best landing spot necessarily.

Michigan/Minnesota would make more sense.