BruceyB

Jimmy would be proud of this thread.

We're comparing PFP rankings based on a result that happened nearly 3 years ago.. lol? They were a freshman and a sophomore at the time.

I'm curious about the way the weights shake out. I wonder if part of the equation (outside of guys being able to make the weights) comes down to the coaching staffs confidence in Cael Hughes vs Brayden Thompson. It would make sense to shift guys up or down based on the confidence they have in either guy. If Hughes is the guy.. 125: Spratley/Sakamoto 133: Figs/Sakamoto 141: Hughes 149: Swiderski 157: Jamison 165: Lockett 174: Facundo 184: Ryder 197: Merrill 285: Doucet If Thompson is the guy.. 125: Spratley/Sakamoto 133: Figs/Sakamoto 141: Jamison/Swiderski 149: Jamison/Swiderski 157: Lockett/Robideau 165: Lockett/Facundo 174: Ryder 184: Thompson 197: Merrill 285: Doucet

It's been truly impressive. If they expanded to provide similar training opportunities across the state, I wouldn't be surprised if they had AWA type success on the national level. The AWA model spreads out the coaching talent while Valiant has an abundance of elite coaches in one location. Arizona is a huge state where a lot of wrestlers don't have the proximity to receive their coaching. I'm not that knowledgeable about Valiant, is it all essentially local kids or is it similar to Blair where kids move and live on campus?

The question was meant to be more hypothetical than practical. Jake Swartz is coaching at Notre Dame College currently. I'm not surprised to hear that about Kaylor. He bounced around to a lot of clubs when he was about schoolboy age and a club I coached at was one of them. I'd have him demonstrate a gut wrench because even at that age it was textbook. He was a great kid from my interactions with him.

I've been out of the Washington wrestling scene for a while, so I have no idea if Mangrum is even involved with the sport at the moment. Feist and Coleman are both great high school coaches, but I don't know that they have the ability to elevate athletes to national relevance with any regularity. Of all the great high schoolers they have coached, I can't think of any from either coach that have been relevant on the D1 scene. Edit: I feel like this may come off as a negative towards the two great coaches, which is not my intention at all. I just wonder if someone who was highly competitive at the D1 level would be able to get wrestlers to the D1 level more consistently. The Swartz brothers would be an interesting choice as well.

Is Chris Owens not a Spokane Owens?

With the success of AWA and the rapid growth of quality D1 wrestlers that are coming out of Wisconsin.. for those of you in a non-powerhouse wrestling state, who would be your ideal candidate (whether currently in residing in your state/coaching or not) to set up a series of clubs in your state to elevate your in state talent to competitive D1 athletes? As someone from Washington, I'd probably lean towards Michael Mangrum (Oregon State AA). His dad led a local club that developed a number of D1 athletes in Western Washington during the late 00's and he was a real talent. Candidates must be from your home state. Yes, this is a doldrum of the off-season question, but I am interested to hear everyone's thoughts. For those of you from wrestling rich states, you can still answer despite having several powerhouse clubs within your respective states.

It is interesting. Do any other of the top clubs in the country follow a similar model? I am familiar with AWA thanks large in part to Askren's time on FRL. But as you said, they really run what, 5 or 6 clubs now under the same name and general philosophy? One thing is for sure, Ben and Max's vision of transforming Wisconsin high school wrestling has been a roaring success. I'd be curious in the next decade or so if highly successful individuals from non-traditional wrestling states begin to implement a similar model to elevate their own states national and collegiate success.

@flyingcement I respect your commitment to reporting the transfer news here. I'd miss a lot of info without this thread.

I do like the idea that you have to complete the rideout for the win. Like you said with the 12 vs 15 seconds of riding time, when the first guy on bottom escapes immediately, then the match just turns into the other wrestler having to choose neutral and try to get a TD while the other guys backs up and stalls for 30 seconds. If one guys escapes in 2 seconds and the other escapes in 5 seconds, is that really how we should be deciding the match? I'm a bit surprised and think stalling needs to be adjusted to compensate for the three point takedown. After this years NCAA tournament, it really stuck out to me how easy it is to win if you score the first takedown. The tactic is simply to score the first takedown, then turn to wrestling a defensive match. Go into the third period up 4-2, wrestle just enough to only get called for stalling twice (it's pretty hard to get hit for stalling 3 times in 2 minutes), and win 4-3. I call it the Antrell Taylor special after he used it against both Bianchi in the quarters and Blaze in the finals. McGowan nearly pulled it off against Vincent Robinson, but blew it by getting taken down with 1 second left.

I actually do. A controlling ride looking to break the bottom wrestler down. The tactic of as soon as the bottom wrestler gets to their feet, you run them to the edge and "attempt" a return going out of bounds.. or dropping to a leg as soon as the bottom wrestler is about to escape.. should be called stalling more frequently, but the refs don't want to "decide" the match so the tactic is allowed. But I agree. Ride outs is about the worst way to decide a winner of a wrestling match that I could imagine. Getting a match to ride outs is the best way for an inferior wrestler to pull off an upset (Seymour over Lilledahl). Anything can happen in those 30 seconds, and choice is huge. It's not nearly as bad, but it's kind of like the old ball grab era in freestyle.

This is the problem.

These guys don't know what they're talking about. The only reason Dana didn't sign Ben during his prime is because his style was boring. Ben was the #1 fighter in the world outside of the UFC for years before he retired, and then came back after his prime with a bum hip. Anyone that is arguing for Bo has no knowledge of how the MMA world works. This match-up was supposed to be a stepping stone for Bo, not his first MMA loss. The fact that he did lose just proves how much growth he needs to be a legitimate contender in the UFC. It's not like it was a freak knockout or a weird submission. He was simply bested by someone who displayed a far better foundation of MMA skills than himself.

lol wut?

I agree with most of @wrestle87's sentiment. I don't think many wrestlers 10-15 years ago necessarily wanted to do MMA, but after spending their lives committed to honing their skills, it was really the only avenue post college to make use of those skills. Very few wrestlers make world teams, and far fewer were winning medals during that time. You basically had to fundraise to gather enough money to pay your bills, let alone support a family. Very few guys would wrestle more than the rest of the quad that they graduated into. It seems like now with RTC's, RTC coaching staffs, the emergence of elite club programs being ran by former D1 wrestlers, there are just a lot more avenues to make a career with a wrestling background then there were before. I know Ben Askren is on record saying that if he could have made enough money to support his family that he likely would have at least stayed in the sport of wrestling for another quad before making the transition. Getting punched, kicked, and choked isn't fun. I doubt many would choose MMA if they could make a comfortable living while staying in the wrestling world.

The fact that we don't see many long and lanky wrestlers at the higher levels of wrestling. I'm not saying you can't be successful with that body type, but if you were going to create a wrestling in a lab, I don't think you're using Nick Simmons as the prototype.

To your original question about what would be the ideal wrestling body type, I think it's pretty evident being long and lanky is not ideal. And I would say much less ideal in freestyle than in folk where the long guys usually thrive on top. Likewise, Chance is a true anomaly with his body type. I never believed he would be legitimately competitive at 86kg at 5'7".

Don't confuse him with logic. You might find yourself next in line to get snapped like a toothpick.

Dammit Jimmy, you've done it again. Always asking the questions others dare not to ask. A lion amongst sheep. Kings stay kings, Jimmy. Never change.

I want someone to ask him if Bo Nickal was rooting for Burroughs at Worlds last year..

I haven't seen or heard a word from Aaron Pico since he started fighting in Bellator. On the other hand, I can't get away from seeing Bo Nickal content. I am not going to root for an arrogant prick just because he comes from the same sport I like. He's a clown and maybe he'll be more tolerable now that he can't pretend like he'd beat anyone in the world if given the chance. The UFC has coddled him and selected opponents to help him build his reputation and anticipation of his future match-ups, and he got booed in his last fight for being so boring, and then just got embarrassed in this fight.

I can tell you one thing.. that promo almost makes me not to watch the event and I love the sport. Can't imagine many people saw that and circled the date on their calendars.

When is the offensive wrestler "going to be called" for stalling? Is this when the referee begins a count? So essentially you're just taking away 4 seconds at a time and creating a whole new mess for the scoring table to manage? Or is it when the top wrestler is called for stalling the riding time stops? I actually love the idea that if you get called for stalling in the top position that riding time stops. Especially in tie-breakers. It would essentially give you two potential ride-out results. A dirty ride out when you take a stall call (can't get 30 seconds of RT) or a clean ride out where the wrestler would get their full 30 seconds of RT.

I'd agree. I was hoping that someone would admit either stand by their take or eat some crow. Spout off ridiculous statements, and either own them or admit you were being a silly boy. But I think "the beast" just says things off of feelings rather than any actual wrestling intel. I think Kish has done a good job considering he hasn't even put one of his own recruiting classes on the mat yet, but they've brought in some quality recruits and some guys that are under the radar. Again, I choose to hope for positivity before burying a coaching regime. Oklahoma is not Oklahoma State, and they haven't been all that relevant since Spates. If they could return to a consistent top 10 program, that would be huge in todays world of college wrestling.