BruceyB

I agree with the variability in who could have won, but I would favor Mendez to win it most often. As far as international wins, you are absolutely more knowledgeable than me when it comes to international guys, so I will definitely take your word for it.

TBF he went 3 matches with Bassett who lost to both Hardy and Blaze at SR WTT. I definitely underestimated Stanich, but I'm not putting him in the top 4 on the senior ladder just yet. I always felt that Mendez would have won that challenge bracket at least 7 out of 10 times. He gave up a TD and three guts to Woods and couldn't mount the comeback. I'm curious to see how good Stanich can be next season coming off of this momentum though. 141 could use some more title contenders.

For UNI to be top three, they have rightfully earned the title of 184U. I hope they can keep it going without Roper.

Spratley is pretty active in his matches against guys he's better than. Hell, he majored Ventresca in the dual. I'm not here to argue that Spratley is active, but I figured that semi-finals match was going into OT before it started. Ventresca had just come off of an OT win without any offensive points scored in the first 7 minutes in the quarters against Strickenberger. Ventresca is tough, but he is basically a 125 pound Cam Amine/Will Lewan. He's the most boring 125 in the country.

So what happens when we look back and realize that's the only year Welsh made the finals?

I also play a little disc golf, and it's funny seeing an amazing athlete completely baffled by the way most discs turn hard to the left. It's also amazing to see (not that I doubted their genuine friendship before) that guys like DC aren't just friends when they can have fun on podcasts or in good times, but that he took the time to fly out and visit Ben in his home. I really hope this doesn't come out wrong, but as far as the wrestling community is concerned, Ben is the best person that could go through such an arduous ordeal. Between his absolutely positive outlook on most aspects of life, his support from the wrestling, MMA, and even the disc golf community, and how beloved he is by all has been so apparent over the past 2+ months. I'm not sure how many of you know (I nerded out on disc golf for a bit), but Ben has custom discs from one of the sports biggest brands Discraft. He also has a course on his property and holds an annual pro-am tournament where several of the top disc golfers in the world take part. My father-in-law passed away suddenly two weeks ago today, and between that and following Ben's unexpected journey, it is truly a reminder that none of us know when our time will come. This video brought me a lot of joy seeing even a fragile version of Ben being his truest self. Sorry for being sentimental, but this video struck me.

174 2012 2014 2018 2022 1st Ed Ruth Chris Perry Zahid Valencia Carter Starocci 2nd Nick Amuchastegui Andrew Howe Mark Hall Mekhi Lewis 3rd Chris Perry Logan Storley Myles Amine Hayden Hidlay 4th Jordan Blanton Robert Kokesh Daniel Lewis Michael Kemerer 5th Nick Heflin Matt Brown Bo Jordan Logan Massa 6th Logan Storley Michael Evans Jordan Kutler Dustin Plott 7th Ethen Lofthouse Tyler Wilps David Kocer Mikey Labriola 8th Ryan DesRoches Bryce Hammond Jacobe Smith Clay Lautt

I was considering the 5th year points as a part of why they would be one of the highest scoring brackets ever. But to be fair, Olejnik and Carr each still only had 4 tournaments, and you could just take away the points that Hall and O'Toole earned their TRFR years, assuming they would have redshirted otherwise, for a more accurate picture. Unless we are going to take away Aaron Brooks' fourth title, we can't discredit Olejnik and Carr for their extra year of eligibility after losing their 2020 tournament.

165 2005 2008 2018 2024 1st Johny Hendricks Mark Perry Vincenzo Joseph David Carr 2nd Mark Perry Eric Tannenbaum Isaiah Martinez Mitchell Mesenbrink 3rd Troy Letters Nick Marable Evan Wick Keegan O'Toole 4th Ryan Churella Mack Lewnes Chance Marstellar Michael Calideno 5th John Sioredas Moza Fay David McFadden Isaac Olejnik 6th Matt Nagel Michael Cannon Alex Marinelli Hunter Garvin 7th Tyron Woodley Jonathan Reader Jonathon Chavez Peyton Hall 8th Matt Palmer Stephen Dwyer Chandler Rogers Antrell Taylor It will be extremely interesting to see where the 2024 bracket winds up in WKN's all time points list when they have all completed their careers. I'm not saying it's the toughest weight, but they will have racked up a LOT of tournament points when they it's all said and done. I'm sure some of you will argue for other weights that should be considered, but 165 tends to be very top heavy without a lot of depth many years.

Yep. He was from a fairly small farming town that had a strong wrestling program at the time (Sedro Wooley High School) in Washington State. I forget who he beat on his run to a Fargo FS title, but we all collectively were rooting for him at OSU.

@MPhillips do you remember Derek Garcia?

And likewise, I very much enjoy comparing and contrasting my subjective analysis with your data based analysis. Speaking of which, where is the data for the top scoring 157 pound bracket of this quarter century? I've been waiting all day!

I guess I am mostly blown away by the frontside of the bracket. For 7 of the top 8 seeds to be upset before the semis is crazy. The highest seed in the semis being the #5 is crazy. And for neither finalist to have beaten someone seeded above them is absolutely unbelievable. Statistically, I guess it is not the most busted. Thanks for contributing numbers to the topic as always!

I don't use any sort of numerical data to make my picks. I try to find a balance between the star-power in the bracket and being realistic to who they were at the time. I'm glad you brought up the 2011 bracket because it's a great example of my thought process.. Yes, there are three champs in that bracket, and another finalist. However, DT, St. John, and Welch were all Freshman in this tournament. Wunderkind David Taylor had been on a bonus tear during that season, but many were still wondering how he would do against a guy like Steve Fittery, who, while very good, isn't a name many would know outside of hardcore fans. Adam Hall as well, many probably remember him as a very solid multi-time AA, but he's far from an all-time guy and was the top seed going into the tournament. IMO it's hard to consider a bracket for All-Time best when the top two seeds aren't particularly noteworthy. It's far from perfect as it's really my subjective opinion that is leading the cause, but that's why I am interested to hear others make the case for other years. I do the subjective analysis based on research and my personal bias, and then @Wrestleknownothing comes with the hard numbers. PS: Tomorrow has one of the most intriguing brackets so far, imo! Stay tuned.

I'm probably a little bias based on how much I loved watching those 2014 guys. The 1/4s match in 2015 with the OT scoring error between Ian Miller and Brian Realbuto is all time. Ness and Miller were appointment viewing. James Green was unbelievable but every year the question was whether or not he could get it done when it matters. Ringer was emerging as one of the best P4P wrestlers in D1. and that's not even mentioning that 2014 was returning NCAA champion Derek St. John's worse NCAA finish. But don't ask me where my vote went.

Correct! Gregor won the title in 2007 at 149, and Leen was the 157 champ the year before in 2008. And correct again, Pami made the finals the following year in 2010 where he fell to J.P. O'Connor.

I didn't fully digest this the first time reading through. These are the only two brackets in the #12 seed era without a top 4 seed in the semis? I'm guessing we aren't finding any others that are going to top those two.

The final results might favor 1981, but Martucci beat the #1 and #5 en route to the finals, while Mantella had an easier path facing #6 and #11. It's definitely a crazy bracket, but I'd still lean towards a #5 and #10 making the finals without recording any upsets themselves as the craziest.

It blew up, but Branch did a lot of the damage. He upset #2 in R32. He also beat the #7 and #6. Branch's finals opponent, Laszlo Molnar, also did the job on his end beating #4, #5, and #1. So, for the most part Branch and Molnar blew-up the bracket by knocking off the big dogs themselves, where as in 2006, Cherrington and Stith were benefactors of upsets that led them to the finals without having to beat any of the top seeds themselves.

While combing through all of these brackets, one stuck out in particular as maybe the most broken bracket I've ever seen. This is the 2006 157 pound bracket. #1 seed Trent Paulson upset in the 1/4's by #9 Joe Johnston (he would go on to take 4th) #2 seed C.P. Schlatter upset in R16 by (US) Andrew Flanagan, wins one match on the backside before being eliminated by (US) Tony Hook. #3 seed Alex Tirapelle upset in 1/4's by #11 Derek Zinck, and then is eliminated after his next match in R12 by #7 Dustin Manotti #4 seed Matt Lebe upset in the R16 by (US) Michael Chandler, and is eliminated after dropping his next match to #7 Manotti #5 seed Ben Cherrington is your national champion #6 seed Brandon Becker upset in R16 by #11 Derek Zinck (he would go on to take 7th) #7 seed Dustin Manotti upset in R32 by (US) Tony Hook, he would then battle all the way back for 3rd taking out #3 and #4 en route #8 Craig Henning wrestled to his seed with an 8th place finish Some interesting facts that come out of this bracket.. The #2, #3, and #4 wrestlers failed to place None of the top 4 seeds reached the semis The semis were #5 vs #9 and #10 vs #11 #5 Ben Cherrington won a national title without facing a wrestler seeded above him #10 Brian Stith made it to the finals without facing a wrestler seeded above him So, you had a national finals between a #5 and #10 and neither wrestler faced anyone seeded higher than #9 to get there. I'd be surprised if this has happened any other time in the modern era. Can anyone think of any other brackets that compare to this kind of combustibility?

157 2001 2009 2014 2018 1st T.J. Williams Jordan Burroughs Alex Dieringer Jason Nolf 2nd Bryan Snyder Michael Poeta Dylan Ness Hayden Hidaley 3rd Shane Roller Jordan Leen James Green Tyler Berger 4th Luke Becker Gregor Gillespie Ian Miller Michael Kemerer 5th Eric Jorgenson Michael Chandler Derek St. John Alec Pantaleo 6th Kirk White Matt Moley Brian Realbuto Micah Jordan 7th Yoshi Nakamura Chase Pami Isaac Jordan Josh Shields 8th Gray Maynard Tyler Safratowich Anthony Perrotti Luke Zilverberg Not to sway any voters, but fun fact.. the 2014 podium crew (if my math is mathing) ended their careers with 28 AA honors.

Jamie Clark.

I'm not actually that surprised when actually thinking about it. As good as the height of the athlete's in the 2008 bracket was, Lance Palmer was the only wrestler to achieve AA status 4 times. Schlatter and Caldwell missing their senior year tournaments due to injury, and Metcalf losing a year because of the transfer rule leaves a lot of points on the table. Brent Metcalf lost a year due to his transfer. Bubba Jenkins DNP both his FR year and JR year (following his runner-up finish as a SO) Burroughs went as a TR FR and went 1-2 at NCAAs Churella lost in R12 his SO year Caldwell was "only" a 2-time AA after failing to podium his FR year and withdrawing after one match his senior NCAAs J.P. O'Connor DNP his junior year Schlatter was hurt and didn't have a senior year tournament