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5 ranked guys at 125, 6 at 133, 4 at 141, 149 & 174 appear to be the deepest weights, 133 with 5 in the top 20 probably the best (+ Burwikkk), or 174 with 2 in the top 10 (Wolak & Sax) Also several intriguing redshirts/current backups such as Sonny Sasso, Zack Ryder, Mirasolas, and Kurt McHenry. Speaking of Sonny Sasso, not sure if that starting spot is currently settled as both he and “the GOAT Andy Smith” are entered. However in another potential VT roster battle Catka is entered at heavyweight but not Mullen.

Didn’t want that other thread to become the tournament thread so putting the actual discussion here. Entries courtesy of Flo: https://www.flowrestling.org/articles/13366706-2025-southern-scuffle-wrestling-tournament-entries *All below entries are subject to change 125 Pounds #7 Stevo Poulin, Northern Colorado #22 Spencer Moore, North Carolina #23 Antonio Lorenzo, Oklahoma #24 Charlie Farmer, Army #30 Robert Sagaris, Long Island Univ Coen Bainey, American Ostin Blanchard, Bellarmine Jared Brunner, Brown Jayden Carson, UA-Little Rock Koufax Christensen, Oklahoma Travis Clawson, Clarion Easton Cooper, Chattanooga Tristan Daugherty, North Dakota State Julian Dawson, Morgan State Ethan Grimminger, Duke Malik Hardy, The Citadel Joseph Hubbard, Bellarmine Jeff Jacome, Gardner Webb Beric Jordan, Oklahoma Enis Ljikovic, Davidson Elijah Lowe, Chattanooga Kurt McHenry, Penn State Anthony Molton, Campbell Sawyer Ostroff, Long Island Univ Luke Passarelli, Davidson Weston Pisarchick, Clarion Keyveon Roller, Virginia Riley Rowan, Duke Damion Ryan, Bellarmine Isaac Sheehan, Morgan State Cooper Shore, Campbell Gylon Sims, The Citadel Cameron Stinson, North Carolina Bryson Terrell, Appalachian State Ty Tice, Chattanooga Caleb Uhorchuk, Army Bryson Valdez, Northern Colorado Nain Vazquez, Army 133 Pounds #9 Nasir Bailey, UA-Little Rock #14 Dom Serrano, Northern Colorado #17 Ethan Oakley, North Carolina #18 Blake Boarman, Chattanooga #20 Cleveland Belton, Oklahoma #22 Ethan Berginc, Army Domenic Zaccone, Campbell Ray Adams, Duke Hunter Adrian, Brown Kyle Burwick, North Dakota State Durben Carpenter, Virginia Tech Carson Chalk, Chattanooga TK Davis, Gardner Webb Trayce Eckman, Bellarmine Kaelan Francois, Long Island Univ Kyison Garcia, Penn State Derek Guanajuato, North Carolina John Hager, Davidson Logan Heil, Campbell Scott Johnson, Clarion Michael Joyce, Brown Shamil Kalmatov, American Tyler Lamon, Gardner Webb Jarvis Little, Appalachian State Raymond Lopez, American Kevin Lopez, Morgan State Bryce Luna, Chattanooga Kyle Montaperto, Virginia Zander Phaturos, Campbell Gable Porter, Virginia Mason Prinkey, Clarion Blake Reihner, Davidson George Rosas, The Citadel Shawn Ryncarz, Morgan State Carter Schmidt, Oklahoma Gary Steen, Penn State Spencer VonSavoye, Duke 141 Pounds #8 Mosha Schwartz, Oklahoma #21 Todd Carter, Gardner Webb #22 Braden Basile, Army #26 Shannon Hanna, Campbell Alex Braun, Oklahoma Kyren Butler, Virginia Dylan Cedeno, Virginia Christian Colman, Duke Marco Dalakishvilli, UA-Little Rock Riley Edwards, Appalachian State Ty Edwards, Gardner Webb Brayden Fahrbach, Appalachian State Armando Garcia, Northern Colorado Nick Gorman, Long Island Univ Chase Hall, Bellarmine Aldo Hernandez, Appalachian State Hunter Hollingsworth, Oklahoma Joey Iamunno, Brown Brayton Killiri, The Citadel Eli Knight, Chattanooga Tim Levine, Penn State Ethan Lipsey, Chattanooga Ryan Luna, Presbyterian Devin Matthews, Long Island Univ Austin McBurney, Brown David McClelland, Clarion Cael McIntyre, American Myrin Nixon, Morgan State Ian Oswalt, Brown Sean Pitts, Bellarmine AJ Rallo, Bellarmine Jayden Scott, North Carolina Tyson Sherlock, Davidson Gianni Silvestri, Clarion Luke Simcox, North Carolina Charlie Sly, Gardner Webb Thomas Termini, The Citadel Richard Treanor, Army Josh Viarengo, Davidson Elijah White, American 149 Pounds #13 Willie McDougald, Oklahoma #16 Jordan Williams, UA-Little Rock #25 Gavin Drexler, North Dakota State #30 Trae McDaniel, Army Benji Alanis, Northern Colorado Tommy Bonasera, Long Island Univ Peter Chacon, Duke Yannis Charles, Morgan State Zac Cowan, Bellarmine Dayne Dalrymple, Chattanooga Wynton Denkins, Campbell Carson DesRosier, The Citadel Cade Gilbert, UA-Little Rock Joey Giordano, Gardner Webb Eugene Harney, Campbell Sam Harris, Gardner Webb Anderson Heap, Davidson Hayden Hughes, Chattanooga Hunter Jones, Gardner Webb Cullen Kane, North Carolina Kyle Lew, UA-Little Rock Rudy Lopez, Northern Colorado Tyler McKnight, Davidson Ethan Mojena, Brown SP O'Donnell, Duke Yuta Otero, Chattanooga Gage Owen, American Connor Pierce, Penn State Grant Reese, Appalachian State Kyle Schickel, Clarion Layton Schneider, Oklahoma Aaron Turner, Morgan State 157 Pounds #25 Tanner Peake, Davidson Blake Saito, Brown John Altieri, Clarion Tyler Badgett, The Citadel Bronson Baxter, UA-Little Rock Ryan Bolletino, Campbell Gavin Cagle, Virginia Tavian Camper, Chattanooga Noah Castillo, Chattanooga Anthony Conetta, Appalachian State Frankie Dibella, Virginia Tech Chris Earnest, Campbell KJ Evans, Oklahoma Logan Ferrero, Duke Logan Fite, Duke Michael Gioffre, Virginia Dillon Graham, Bellarmine Joshua Greenwood, Morgan State Matt Heinrich, Virginia Tech Parker Kearns, Citadel CJ Liddie, Chattanooga Dakota Morris, Army Jack Nies, American Max Petersen, North Dakota State Jeb Prechtel, Bellarmine Jeremiah Price, Appalachian State Brayden Roberts, Long Island Univ Nick Sanko, Virginia Gabriel Schumm, North Dakota State Nick Tattini, Duke Cody Wagner, UA-Little Rock Hayden Watson, The Citadel Jewell Williams, UA-Little Rock 165 Pounds #21 Gunner Filipowicz, Army #25 Brendon Abdon, UA-Little Rock #33 Tate Picklo, Oklahoma Clayton Ulrey, Northern Colorado Omaury Alvarez, North Carolina Domonic Baker, Campbell Wesley Barnes, Clarion Joey Bianichi, UA-Little Rock Connor Brady, Virginia Tech Tyler Brignola, Gardner Webb Austin Craft, American Aurelius Dunbar, Penn State Nicholas Fea, North Carolina Boeden Greenley, North Dakota State Kyle Grey, Morgan State Justin Hayes, The Citadel Max Heinrich, Virginia Tech Gunner Holland, UA-Little Rock Brendan Howes, North Dakota State Jackson Hurst, Chattanooga Alex Hutchcraft, Chattanooga James Johnston, Long Island Univ Austin Keal, UA-Little Rock Aidan Lenz, The Citadel Cooper Cokhart, Morgan State Nico Loranzo, UA-Little Rock Ian McGehee, Davidson Kaden Milheim, American Kylan Montgomery, Virginia Tech Mannix Morgan, Oklahoma Brody Murray, Chattanooga Cole Nance, Bellarmine Daishun Powe, Northern Colorado Keegan Rothrock, Brown Tyler Secoy, North Dakota State Donavan Smith, Long Island Univ Thomas Snipes, The Citadel Jackson Spires, Virginia Tech Mason Stefanelli, Virginia Harrison Trahan, Brown Aidan Wallace, Duke Brady Worthing, Clarion 174 Pounds #4 Lennox Wolak, Virginia Tech #10 Gaven Sax, Oklahoma #27 Dalton Harkins, Army #29 Sergio Desiante, Chattanooga Riley Augustine, Campbell Caleb Campos, American Drew Clearie, Brown Corey Connolly, Long Island Univ Gaetano Console, Duke Isaias Estrada, North Carolina Ty Finn, Virginia Tech Bryce Garcia, Northern Colorado Cooper Haase, Army Ben Haubert, The Citadel Rocco Hayes, Virginia Landon Jones, Chattanooga Jack Kelly, Penn State Marc Koch, Davidson Tre McTorry, Chattanooga Bodie Morgan, Davidson Marcus Murabito, North Carolina Michael Murphy, Virginia Nolan O'Boyle, North Carolina Grant O'Dell, Bellarmine Connor O'Donnell, Brown Kameron Phillips, Northern Colorado Sabino Portella, North Carolina Jackson Potts, Gardner Webb Deegan Ross, Clarion Cortilius Vann, Morgan State Devin Wasley, North Dakota State Andrew Wilson, Gardner Webb John Worthing, Clarion Gage Wright, Virginia Tech 184 Pounds #18 Gavin Kane, North Carolina #20 TJ Stewart, Virginia Tech #23 DJ Parker, Oklahoma Aiden Brenot, North Dakota State Branson Britten, UA-Little Rock Andrew Christie, Army Patrick Cutchember, Clarion Anthony D'Alesio, Long Island Univ Hadyn Danals, Virginia Micah DiCarlo, The Citadel Sam Fisher, Virginia Tech Eddie Flores, Gardner Webb Adrian Gacek, Clarion Griff Gammell, Virginia Jake Gilfoil, Army AJ Heeg, Northern Colorado Devan Hendricks, Bellarmine David Hussey, Duke Josh Lange, Davidson Landon Lewis, Chattanooga Bodie Morgan, Davidson Kamdyn Munro, Chattanooga Justin Phillips, Virginia Roy Price, The Citadel Andrew Reall, Brown Jack Ring, Bellarmine Zack Ryder, Penn State Aidan Schlett, North Carolina Sam Schroeder, Bellarmine Mike Slade, Campbell Jake Stacey, UA-Little Rock Logan Webster, Chattanooga Triston Wills, UA-Little Rock Keenan Wyatt, Bellarmine 197 Pounds #9 Andy Smith, Virginia Tech #26 Levi Hopkins, Campbell #28 Patrick Brophy, The Citadel Tayshaun Glover, North Dakota State Kwasi Bonsu, Duke Kendrick Curtis, Chattanooga Liam Daniels, UA-Little Rock Andrew Donahue, Northern Colorado John Dusza, Long Island Univ Wolfgang Frable, Army Evan Grazzini, Bellarmine David Harper, Chattanooga Bradley Hill, Oklahoma Connor Jacobs, Clarion Cameron Johnson, Morgan State Cade Lautt, North Carolina Andrew Liber, Bellarmine Josh McCutchen, Gardner Webb Connor Mirasola, Penn State Savoy New, Davidson Tyler Perry, Northern Colorado Carsten Rawls, American Thomas Sandoval, Brown Sonny Sasso, Virginia Tech Reid Schroeder, Army Max Shulaw, Virginia Liam Volk-Klos, American Ethan Weatherspoon, Virginia Ethan Wiant, Clarion Kennedy Wyatt, Bellarmine 285 Pounds #23 Lucas Stoddard, Army #29 Connor Barket, Duke Andrew Blackburn-Forst, North Dakota State Mason Blue, Gardner Webb Hunter Catka, Virginia Tech Austin Chapman, Clarion Gabe Christenson, Virginia Brady Colbert, Army Kaden Darwin, UA-Little Rock Xavier Doolin, Morgan State Parker Ferrell, Virginia Tech Will Jarrell, American Shiloh Jones, North Dakota State Daulton Mayer, Bellarmine Kj Miley, UA-Little Rock Cole Mirasola, Penn State Nolan Neves, North Carolina Adam Ortega, The Citadel Remington Peterson, Northern Colorado Chris Powell, Long Island Univ Alex Semenenko, Brown Lucas Thomas, Clarion Ricky Thomas, Oklahoma Emmanuel Ulrich, American Ethan Vergara, Chattanooga Kaleb Wright, Campbell Full 2025 Southern Scuffle Schedule Saturday, January 4 9:00 am Round 1 (Championship Round of 64; Pigtail Matches) Round 2 (Championship Round of 32) Round 3 (Consolation Round of 32; Pigtail Matches) Round 4 (Championship Round of 16) Round 5 (1st and 2nd Consolations of the Round of 16) 6:00 pm Round 6 (Quarterfinals; 1st Consolation of the Round of Round 7 (2nd Consolation of the Round of Sunday, January 5 10:00 am Round 8 (Semifinals; Consolation Quarterfinals) Round 9 (Consolation Semifinals) 3:00 pm Medal Matches

How’d you do as a redshirt sophomore? I’m more interested in 1-year changes where improvements usually aren’t that significant. I’ve previously given several examples of guys that bumped up in weight and struggled, seemingly primarily due to the weight increase. Jack Mueller, Rayvon Foley, Stevan Micic in the recent past. Anthony Noto appears to be one this year as he already has as many losses this season as he’s had in any other season. Where you’d actually be hard pressed to find an example like that is guys that went from 197 to heavyweight.

You’re not trying to argue that there are a comparable number of “studs” at 220 and heavyweight in high school compared to 106 are you? That’s pretty laughable if so. I did previously acknowledge that there are a lot of novice 106’s however. But the difference is those guys usually don’t end up placing at states like often happens at 220/heavyweight.

And what were your results at heavyweight compared to 197?

I’m still confused how more wrestling upperweight classes would have any measurable impact on athletes getting lured away to football by NIL. Besides, it seems like if they’re good enough to both wrestle and play D1 football, they generally play a position where they’d be best suited at ~250+ lbs (Hutmacher, Kueter, Mullen all very recent examples) My argument has been that I do NOT believe it’s rare for undersized heavyweights to have success. I literally couldn’t find a single example of someone bumping from 197 to heavyweight and doing noticeably worse. The example used in the other thread was a guy who was undefeated going into NCAA’s… IIRC, @bnwtwg’s primary complaint was he didn’t like cutting to 197. @bnwtwg, did you wrestle heavyweight at all? I know I basically just asked you in the post above, and I’ve asked @bnwtwg multiple times with no response that I’ve seen. Do you think shifting 184 and 197 upwards would solve this supposed issue? I’m on board with that. But not keeping 197 and adding another weight between that and heavyweight.

Can you clarify what you’re suggesting the weights to be? If you’re proposing that 197 or something close to it remains, and that an additional weight is added between that and heavyweight while still keeping the total at 10 weights, then a lower or middleweight is getting removed

But those were the 2 points I addressed in my prior post. Are you claiming losing a middleweight to add a weight between 197 and heavyweight would increase total participation? Sorry, but that couldn’t be more wrong.

So why should there be a weight between 197 and heavyweight?

If those are the two options, yes. IMO the goal should be to grow total participation. If so, then the opportunities should be where the participants are. We have far more participants at the middle weights than the upper weights. If the response to this is “the goal should be to give us the best chance to succeed internationally,” then for the 97kg issue the solution should be to increase 184 and 197, not add another upperweight.

Trump supporter according to his uncle

Lol

I’d agree with this translation. Which still means it makes no sense that Ferrari would wrestle attached at Soldier Salute. I guess maybe they plan to use Arnold for most of the remainder of the season but still don’t know why they wouldn’t have just preserved the date by having Ferrari wrestle unattached. Yes, I believe he still has 2 more dates he can wrestle in and still preserve his redshirt. But the second one is a great question…

They could do the Penn State “medical” redshirt like Nagao and possibly Facundo are doing.

If anything Hamiti probably has more incentive to duck the dual (although I’d be shocked if he did). If O’Toole wins the dual but loses at Big 12’s then Haines likely has an argument for the #1 seed

Seeding wise I don’t see the downside to O’Toole wrestling in the dual against Hamiti. If he wins B12’s he’s still likely the #1 seed

I believe Askren said on FRL that he was likely to redshirt regardless of Elam’s situation.

Obviously there are plenty of novice 106 pounders that were pulled out of the hallways, but on the whole they tend to be much more experienced and better technical wrestlers than 220’s/heavyweights. @BruceyB pretty much summed up what my response would have been:

Zain has always had a massive cut to get to 65, I think that’s more just about how big he is in general and there only being 6 Olympic weights vs having anything to do with the college weight. Has Henson said he plans on going 65kg at all? Mendez seemed to do fairly well at 65 though… That said, I’d be fine with changing 133/141/149 to 135/143/150 or something like that if you want 143 to be closer to 65 kg

Yeah other than the insults, I was most confused by the comments about upperweight wrestlers being enticed by NIL opportunities to play football. How exactly would making more upperweight classes in wrestling change this? It’s also not all that different than in the past, since with 85 scholarships and many more schools offering football scholarships, it has always been far easier to get a football scholarship than a wrestling scholarship.

Yeah I think we mostly agree. I did call out that we don’t know the ratio of total guys staying the same weight vs moving up. Are we really sure more guys stay the same vs going up? I have no idea. But if you wouldn’t count someone that bumped up in a previous year as having bumped up, then that would make the numbers even more in favor of the non-bumpers. To that point, I agree that I’d like to see which weights have the highest % of success when bumping up, but along the same lines it would have to be in context with the total number of guys making the jump. For example my hypothesis would be that 125 to 133 is the most common jump for guys to make, but would have the lowest success %, and 197 to heavyweight would have the highest %, but likely a lower number of total guys that made the jump.

What is your non-anecdotal evidence? Let’s look at Midlands as an example (and these numbers are not uncommon): 285: 25 entries 197: 21 entries 141: 31 entries 149: 34 entries Soldier Salute: 285: 20 entries 197: 19 entries 141: 21 entries 149: 28 entries If college closer aligned with international weights, that would mean combining 141 & 149, where we have among the highest participation, into one weight, and adding an additional weight where we have among the lowest. It doesn’t make sense. But again, I’m on board with increasing 184 and 197 to better align.

Yeah so you want an additional weight between 197 and heavyweight, and to lose a middleweight. What is your opinion about shifting 184 and 197 up?

I did it a few posts up for 2022-2024.

You also repeated the question you asked about national champs to me. But honestly looking at champs is probably a good start. And again, I agree that as a whole (so not just champs), many guys do just as good or better as they move up in weight, but many don’t (albeit generally not guys who were already champs). I still disagree that talking about what guys did in future years after the year being discussed is relevant though. Over the last 3 seasons, in the years they won, more often than not the champs had not yet moved up in weight during their career.