98lberEating2Lunches

Not being a fanatic of the Bob Dole doesn't equate to hating any Bob Dole. I am indifferent to all Bob Doles, that I am aware of.

Thanks, but no thanks. I'll pass.

@Fletcher I suppose the answer to 'why?' is that the 'Peon' class of users is whatever the 'Administrators' class names or renames it. It's part of the price of admission and shows up on one's profile.

Must... hate... Fletcher.

A mindset that considers empathy and sensitivity, sure. I believe some black men from Detroit can be sensitive to black men from the deep south. I pointed that it sounded racist AF and stand by that. The fact that you doubled-down not reflecting on your poor word choice says enough.

Seriously bad choice of words. Sounds racist AF.

Inevitably inflation has to impact bags-o-cash, but so soon? I don't believe it. That's ridiculous. Could be trolling Iowa hoping to drive up any Iowa Nagao offer.

on whether the athlete can continue to honor their end of the contract (regardless that they no longer attend the local university). Or the contract is severed by some other mutual agreement.

It's probably about NIL vs scholarship. You can take any NIL $ with you, as the contract cannot be contingent on athletic participation. Also, as soon as one enters the portal, the current school can immediately rescind and current scholarship.

Ignoring Gable's words regarding "fear"

At about 28:20 thru 32:49, Dan Gable specifically addresses "fear," as it relates hypothetically losing his Olympic Gold medal match afyet having lost his final NCAA match. In that discussion Dan Gable indicates: 1) He wasn't really afraid of a repeat scenario. 2) (Because) He recognized and adjusted his approach and preparation (including with media). 3) It's an ever learning process. 4) Any fear (presumed as being out there) should only be to his advantage (i.e., his opponent's fear), and he wanted his conditioning to place that fear in his opponent (i.e , they couldn't keep pace with him). 5) Doesn't know whether he ever really had fear, but recognizes there are a few times when he believes he underperformed. And in retrospect, he attributes this to probably the fear of not being a wrestling artist (versus the best conditioned wrestler). My take away, Dan Gable thought to perform at the highest level, sources of fear are targets of elimination (i.e., "fear" is not one's ally).

Gable Interview All is a good listen, but 11 min 07 sec point thru about 14:30 seems most relevant.

People say he was a workaholic and didn't like losing. Hard to find a statement answering "Why?" Excerpts from around the web: (after losing to Larry Owings) "At first after the loss I couldn't face my parents," he said. "I felt I had let them down. I know they didn't feel that way, but it took time for me to adjust. I worked out a little, stayed up late, went out with the guys. I couldn't keep my mind straight." "I'm afraid Dan might commit suicide," said one onlooker. "I mean, what else has he got in life but wrestling?" But all Dan Gable did was cry. (Aside: That doesn't sound mentally healthy to me.) In his book, Gable describes a visualization exercise he used to perform during his training on the cycle. While cycling, he would imagine in vivid detail his entire workout routine. As he relived the challenge, sweat, and exhaustion of his workouts, that pushed him to work harder on the cycle. In every training exercise, his sole concern was pushing himself to his limits--making himself more than he already was. "If you know you haven't cheated, physically in your preparation, that makes you mentally tough," Gable observed for a 1973 Esquire article.

I never argued relative (unprovable) difficulty. I pointed out there was physical risk and pain possibility (hit by pitch) in baseball that is far worse than being slammed on a mat (but then your penchant for hyperbole introduced golf). I pointed out skills from baseball must be developed and maintained over time, thru dedication, so like wrestling, perceived improvement is necessary to maintain interest. Baseball was just an example. 8 could've as easily used gymnastics or ice skating. I pointed out making training "fun" helpw maintain interest, thereby increasing the likelihood of perceived improvement and continued participation in any sport. I pointed out excessive focus on W and L (competition results) was not consistent with sustained participation by youth in a sport. I never argued anything about some purely subjective inherent relative amount of "fun" of a particular sport.

You've been clear about your personal value system, I acknowledge and see you (me, my). And, I don't mean to devalue what has worked for you or the basic codes you've come to live you life by. Any disagreement lies in the generalization of your specific life experiences to others or the nature of sport (i e., competition). Sure, fear can be a great motivator, as in the fear of failure or any of the myriad of other forms of fear-mongering we see every day. I just don't believe it is the best motivator or that succumbing to it leads to a best life lived.

I don't believe anybody is arguing that anyone who competes "enjoys" losing, in that they'd get some pleasure from it or prefer it over winning. I certainly don't. I do believe some disagree with you that having a material concern with the result (win or loss) either preparing for or during a competition -- regardless of level (youth, college, high-level, low-level) -- is good for optimal development or performance. I am in this camp. In other words, hating losing or fear of being labeled a loser is neither healthy nor good for optimal performance and associated results. We can agree to disagree on this point.

I didn't say or think it was limited to. I simply understood (or misunderstood) the earlier discussions about the NCAA regular season had transitioned to youth wrestler development in the best interest of wrestling (e.g. college) on page 2 (by Formerly140).

"Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a good learner with promise to become a great sportsperson." I don't believe Vince Lombardi talking about grown ass men playing a professional sport has much to do with keeping youth engaged in sports like wrestling. But maybe I misunderstood this thread.

RBY might really think that statement a joke.

@scourge165 I appreciate your take. I very much personally emphasized winning when I was younger. My family dynamic was very competitive, so I believe some of my ways were inculcated very early on (almost beyond my control). From 50-60+, I played basketball against 16-40 year olds. These 'youth' call me "hardwired," so to them I am largely a lost cause. Still, when coaching I have a different philosophy, because I don't see the mindset I carry when I compete as healthy. I agree winning is more fun than losing. I don't agree that one should not or cannot have fun simply because they lose. The competition is the same. The W or L is simply the result based on the rules of a game, preparation, factors beyond one's control, and the relative strengths and weaknesses of the competitors. I've seen other coaches emphasize winning and how that affects youth when they lose. Gamesmanship or even 'cheating' dishonors competition. They don't occur when winning isn't over emphasized. Barring ties, 50% of all competitors lose a given contest. Fear of failure is something all coaches should proactively guard against. All sports, including wrestling, should be much more about learning and improving than any final score. None of this philosophy has anything to do with 'participation trophies.' It has to do with keeping kids engaged in a sport despite results, because sports--the right way--are a valuable tool for quality character development in our youth. BTW 'Participation Trophies' are to keep only the youngest engaged (a carrot) during their earliest learning years. Then, they've had less time to recognize their improvement and can readily discern the gap in physical abilities between themselves and the more mature children in their age group. These trophies cease to be effective with youth who emphasize winning but don't improve to close this gap.

Someone always wins, someone always loses, and life goes on. Your coaches may have failed you. Has nothing to do with 'participation trophies.'

People can be highly competitive and yet not define themselves by wins or losses in a competition. Part of 'having fun' is embracing competition without emphasis on the resulting W or L.

I sensed Spencer's understanding that Iowa and its grind would've been the 100% wrong choice for Jesuroga, given Nate was bordering on HEW in HS when recruited. If anything, Spencer could've been hinting admiration for Nate's actiing on non-wrestling related life goals.

Back in the day, not many because most were geeks. Thankfully, I never experienced weight cutting. But I must say, I have never been averse to physical pain, so I may be in an outlier. Where and when were you a HS wrestler? I was in HS in the late 70s/early 80s in Western PA. Things were pretty old school then, but I don't believe my Coach was focused on winning. I think he was focused on developing young men using a sport he loved and was proficient at. Alas, the days of embracing toxic masculinity are soon to be completely vanquished in today's society. For wrestling to survive, I believe it has to move well beyond toughness as its calling card. I would suggest emphasizing qualities like self-discipline and resilience over toughness.

I agree that there is no substitute for proper repetitions when it comes to longterm skill development and establishing muscle memory. I believe there is opportunity to vary "drills" and make them fun, regardless of sport. Pitching (holding runners while locating and varying pitches) is tough. Hitting a curveball is tough. Except for taking a fastball to the small of one's back or running into a fence/wall to make a catch, baseball doesn't approach the same degree of physical toughness as wrestling. And yet baseball involves difficult skills that take years to master and retain, if one hopes to consistently succeed against age-group peers. Physically immature kids of the same weight will tend to struggle against physically mature kids at the same weight. It doesn't matter the sport. But this factor doesn't average out in an individual competition, like wrestling, as it can in a team competition, like baseball. I believe kids tend drop out of sports when they don't have success in comparison to their competitors over some period of time. The upper limit might be two seasons. Perceiving improvement accompanied by success goes a long way to make things fun. Kids need the right mindset and longterm vision to maintain their enthusiasm over periods where they lack perceived improvement and success. I believe necessary motivation, resilience, and skill development must come from the youth participant and their supporters (e.g., parents, coaches, teammates). So I agree with your earlier assertion, "In order for it to be fun, you've gotta have success or at least be getting better."