Bracket Discussion

[JimmyCinnabon]

11 hours ago, Pinnacle said:

Davino has a tough draw. Byrd, then Blaze, then Jax/Seidel. 

At 133lbs all four top seeds have a bad draw because the top four at 133lbs are on a different level than the rest.

[Tyler]

13 hours ago, Kov88 said:

Feel like big emphasis was put on conference tournaments

Kinda. Though Angelo with a 7 seed when he finished 8th at the conference tournament is kinda head scratching. Though is probably the correct spot. Idk what I’m talking about lol

[JeanGuy]

a little surprised Cannon (157) was seeded as low as he was. I know he missed time but he was 18-2 and received an 8 seed.

I also believe that Forest should not be #1 at 133 with only half a season of matches (13). Davino is 27-1 and arguably wrestled a much more difficult schedule.

With this many guys there will always be nits to pick.

[BloodRound]

I feel for Ghadiali.  Feel like his style is better suited to upset Yonger than it is Trumble.

[GimJustafan]

14 hours ago, peanut said:

At 125, LL is #1 and undefeated Seymour is #4. Seymour, of course, beat LL at last year’s NCAAs. 

at 125 

how is Peterson seeded ahead of both Robinson and Spratly who should meet in 2nd round 

[BarSeries]

3 minutes ago, GimJustafan said:

at 125 

how is Peterson seeded ahead of both Robinson and Spratly who should meet in 2nd round 

Spratley is 5

[Sublime607]

14 hours ago, peanut said:

At 125, LL is #1 and undefeated Seymour is #4. Seymour, of course, beat LL at last year’s NCAAs. 

Robinson seeded #12 makes things interesting also 

[GimJustafan]

5 minutes ago, BarSeries said:

Spratley is 5

yes sorry/ should have said better bracket spot for Peterson 

[DeezyDoesIt]

5 hours ago, Lleynor said:

Gift? The eye test is crazy for him. And he’s wrecking almost everyone. 

I think we are underestimating how much work that tech of Ayala did for Jax. Hard to compare wrestlers that haven't competed against each other, but when you look at results vs common opponents, that one really stands out. 

I get that he doesn't have the quantity of wins, but quality is off the charts.

[cl415]

My biggest takeaway from how they seeded is that it’s fine to miss the first half the season but don’t miss time late or you will be hit pretty hard. 

[BruceyB]

5 hours ago, Lleynor said:

Gift? The eye test is crazy for him. And he’s wrecking almost everyone. 

Jax has wins over #4, #5, and #7.

Davino's best win outside of Blaze is #7 (Frost being out hurt him here)

Blaze's best win outside of Davino is #7

Since neither Blaze nor Davino notched a win against someone ranked higher than 7th and only lost to each other, you could realistically argue that the two of them could be anywhere from the #1 to #6 guy in the country since neither have a win to cement themselves higher.

Jax with wins over #4, #5, and #7 makes it so you would figure his range is #1 to #3. 

Eyeball and wrestling knowledge leads us all to believe that Jax, Davino, and Blaze are the top 3 in the country, and they are seeded as such, but I can see why Jax ended up with the #1 as he has beaten more of the top guys at this weight. But it doesn't feel right that he was able to pull up and get the #1 seed with such a limited schedule. I would have liked it to be Davino 1, Jax 2, Blaze 3. Davino got absolutely hosed with his draw. I still like him to make the finals, but it isn't going to be smooth sailing.

[Dan_the_man]

is everyone doing the https://www.lineuplegends.com/ game this year? Looks like it’s free to enter and the winner gets $10,000? Picking champs this year will be hard though


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Saw this. Definitely submitting. Winner last year only had 7, feels doable.

Guessing you’ll need to get at least 3 of these 4 weights right to have a shot to win… 125 133 184 HWT

Anyone taking Robinson to repeat?

[ionel]

9 minutes ago, BruceyB said:

Jax has wins over #4, #5, and #7.

Davino's best win outside of Blaze is #7 (Frost being out hurt him here)

Blaze's best win outside of Davino is #7

Since neither Blaze nor Davino notched a win against someone ranked higher than 7th and only lost to each other, you could realistically argue that the two of them could be anywhere from the #1 to #6 guy in the country since neither have a win to cement themselves higher.

Jax with wins over #4, #5, and #7 makes it so you would figure his range is #1 to #3. 

Eyeball and wrestling knowledge leads us all to believe that Jax, Davino, and Blaze are the top 3 in the country, and they are seeded as such, but I can see why Jax ended up with the #1 as he has beaten more of the top guys at this weight. But it doesn't feel right that he was able to pull up and get the #1 seed with such a limited schedule. I would have liked it to be Davino 1, Jax 2, Blaze 3. Davino got absolutely hosed with his draw. I still like him to make the finals, but it isn't going to be smooth sailing.

If talking seeds Jax over 4, 5 & 6 (not 7).  He had potentially two chances to wrestle Frost but Frost out for both.  By appearances its possible to think that Seidel might be the second best kid in the country and Larkin third what data suggests that couldn't be true vs Davino & Blaze?  No one has wrestled Jax as close as Seidel, Larkin held it to a 13pt MD.  

[roguetrader]

This guy was unseeded and he took the title. Just wrestle !

[Idaho]

5 minutes ago, roguetrader said:

This guy was unseeded and he took the title. Just wrestle !

It was a dual match.

[BruceyB]

4 minutes ago, ionel said:

If talking seeds Jax over 4, 5 & 6 (not 7).  He had potentially two chances to wrestle Frost but Frost out for both.  By appearances its possible to think that Seidel might be the second best kid in the country and Larkin third what data suggests that couldn't be true vs Davino & Blaze?  No one has wrestled Jax as close as Seidel, Larkin held it to a 13pt MD.  

I was going off of Flo's final rankings above.

But we are on the same side here. 

Based on results and wins, logically one could argue that..

Jax's could be 1-3 (he has beaten 4 and 5)

Seidel could be 2-5 (lost to Jax but beat 6)

Larkin could be 2-5 (lost to Jax but beat 6)

Blaze could be 2-5 (lost to Davino but beat 6)

Davino could be 1-4 (beat Blaze and beat 6)

Based on the information we have, we don't know how Jax, Seidel, Larkin, Blaze and Davino should be ranked. However, we know that Jax should be higher than Seidel and Larkin. 

If you take out preconceived notions and bias when it comes to Seidel, Larkin, Blaze, and Davino, we don't have any data to separate them. Davino and Blaze being ranked higher than Seidel and Larkin is arbitrary because based on results, we can't logically conclude that they are better.

Therefore, Jax having proven he can beat 2 of the other four trumps Blaze and Davino who have only proven that they can beat each other.

[Gene Mills Fan]

12 minutes ago, BruceyB said:

I was going off of Flo's final rankings above.

But we are on the same side here. 

Based on results and wins, logically one could argue that..

Jax's could be 1-3 (he has beaten 4 and 5)

Seidel could be 2-5 (lost to Jax but beat 6)

Larkin could be 2-5 (lost to Jax but beat 6)

Blaze could be 2-5 (lost to Davino but beat 6)

Davino could be 1-4 (beat Blaze and beat 6)

Based on the information we have, we don't know how Jax, Seidel, Larkin, Blaze and Davino should be ranked. However, we know that Jax should be higher than Seidel and Larkin. 

If you take out preconceived notions and bias when it comes to Seidel, Larkin, Blaze, and Davino, we don't have any data to separate them. Davino and Blaze being ranked higher than Seidel and Larkin is arbitrary because based on results, we can't logically conclude that they are better.

Therefore, Jax having proven he can beat 2 of the other four trumps Blaze and Davino who have only proven that they can beat each other.

We are not playing pitch(set back), trump is irrelevant;  Jax are better Trips to Win!

Edited March 12 by Gene Mills Fan

[ionel]

1 minute ago, Gene Mills Fan said:

We are not playing pitch(set back), trump is irrelevant;  Jax are better Trips to Win!

inside or slide by?  

[DeezyDoesIt]

59 minutes ago, BruceyB said:

But it doesn't feel right that he was able to pull up and get the #1 seed with such a limited schedule. 

I see this point, and it would certainly be one thing if he went undefeated against cherry-picked competition with tight margins. But if you are wrecking multiple wrestlers in the top ten? I do think he earned it. 

I think Barr is actually a decent comparison, showed up late from injury, kills all his competition in second half. Barr has probably wrestled a weaker schedule then Jax (no shade, he wrestled everyone that was in front of him), it's just that 197 is a way weaker weight class with only 1 guy that could also make a claim for #1, so no one really cares. 

[Gene Mills Fan]

1 minute ago, ionel said:

inside or slide by?  

He slid the slide guru! already 

[BruceyB]

5 minutes ago, DeezyDoesIt said:

I see this point, and it would certainly be one thing if he went undefeated against cherry-picked competition with tight margins. But if you are wrecking multiple wrestlers in the top ten? I do think he earned it. 

I think Barr is actually a decent comparison, showed up late from injury, kills all his competition in second half. Barr has probably wrestled a weaker schedule then Jax (no shade, he wrestled everyone that was in front of him), it's just that 197 is a way weaker weight class with only 1 guy that could also make a claim for #1, so no one really cares. 

If you look at my later posts I explain why it makes sense for Jax to be #1, but as a fan of the college wrestling season, I think we're on a slippery slope when the regular season is 4 months long and a high number of guys are averaging less than 4 matches per month.

College basketball teams are playing twice as many 48 minute games in the regular season compared to how many 7 minute matches guys are wrestling in the same timeframe. Wrestling is a where you grow up wrestling 4-5 matches every Saturday, and now guys aren't even wrestling that much in a month.

It's a hard problem to solve though, because if you punish a guy by lowering their seed to make their path harder, then you're also punishing someone else for something outside of their control. A perfect example of this is Ferrari at the #7. Sure, they punished him for not wrestling, but Aoeden is being equally punished through no fault of his own because of it.

[Booger]

6 hours ago, BarSeries said:

And just think if Davino and Jax swapped seeds........

[BarSeries]

6 hours ago, Gene Mills Fan said:

we need true second and third in 133 if not moot,  more matches!!!

Maybe Flo can run the true second at next years All-Star Classic!

[boconnell]

1 hour ago, BruceyB said:

If you look at my later posts I explain why it makes sense for Jax to be #1, but as a fan of the college wrestling season, I think we're on a slippery slope when the regular season is 4 months long and a high number of guys are averaging less than 4 matches per month.

College basketball teams are playing twice as many 48 minute games in the regular season compared to how many 7 minute matches guys are wrestling in the same timeframe. Wrestling is a where you grow up wrestling 4-5 matches every Saturday, and now guys aren't even wrestling that much in a month.

It's a hard problem to solve though, because if you punish a guy by lowering their seed to make their path harder, then you're also punishing someone else for something outside of their control. A perfect example of this is Ferrari at the #7. Sure, they punished him for not wrestling, but Aoeden is being equally punished through no fault of his own because of it.

College basketball plays 35 games with the postseason.  The NBA plays 100 with the postseason.

College wrestling wrestles 20-40 matches with the postseason.  Olympic wrestling wrestles 5-15 matches with the postseason.  

College Basketball having a bunch of games is no indicator college wrestling should have a bunch of games.  In pretty much every pro sport they play more as they get older.  In wrestling the reverse is true.

[BruceyB]

24 minutes ago, boconnell said:

College basketball plays 35 games with the postseason.  The NBA plays 100 with the postseason.

College wrestling wrestles 20-40 matches with the postseason.  Olympic wrestling wrestles 5-15 matches with the postseason.  

College Basketball having a bunch of games is no indicator college wrestling should have a bunch of games.  In pretty much every pro sport they play more as they get older.  In wrestling the reverse is true.

I'm not going to bother arguing the difference between an NBA player and Olympic wrestler and their respective obligations.

In college basketball, the regular season is extremely important when it comes to making it to the national tournament and how you will be seeded. In wrestling, you don't even have to be on the roster for the first half of the season, let alone compete, in order to get the most advantageous seed at the national tournament.

I don't think we need guys wrestling 45 matches a year, but I think a minimum match threshold should be in place to qualify for the post season. Sure, there may be some unfortunate casualties, but when you have guys wrestling an easier opponent on Friday and then sitting out on Sunday, it's a problem for the sport. When every conversation about a big match up is concluded with the caveat, "if they both go," it's a problem for the sport.

Hit a couple of opens, get all of your guys 20 matches during the 4 month regular season, and you're good to go.