133

[Truzzcat]

Byrd: 5,5,1 
Ayala: 2,2
Fugitt: 4th
Frost: 6th
Crookham: 3rd
Van Dee: 7th
Knox: 8th
Seidel
Blaze
Forrest
Davino
Larkin

 

4 of these guys at the very least will not AA this year. I cannot recall a better weight aside from maybe that 2009 157 bracket.

[wrestlingfan22]

2 minutes ago, Truzzcat said:

Byrd: 5,5,1 
Ayala: 2,2
Fugitt: 4th
Frost: 6th
Crookham: 3rd
Van Dee: 7th
Knox: 8th
Seidel
Blaze
Forrest
Davino
Larkin

 

4 of these guys at the very least will not AA this year. I cannot recall a better weight aside from maybe that 2009 157 bracket.

Not included are past 1 Richie Figs and past 7, 7 Chris Cannon who are now both #washed. I also think Serrano could make some noise in March. He is looking legit this year and just keeps finding ways to win high scoring ones against good guys. 

[fishbane]

Dylan Shawver was 7th in 2024 and the Big Ten champion.  Last year he lost in the R12.

[wrestlingfan22]

7 minutes ago, fishbane said:

Dylan Shawver was 7th in 2024 and the Big Ten champion.  Last year he lost in the R12.

Good call I thought Truzz had him there already idk why

[BruceyB]

3 hours ago, Truzzcat said:

Byrd: 5,5,1 
Ayala: 2,2
Fugitt: 4th
Frost: 6th
Crookham: 3rd
Van Dee: 7th
Knox: 8th
Seidel
Blaze
Forrest
Davino
Larkin

 

4 of these guys at the very least will not AA this year. I cannot recall a better weight aside from maybe that 2009 157 bracket.

149* but I gotchu. I definitely agree that looking back at this bracket in 10 years, we'll very likely reminisce about the 133 weight that had a returning champ, returning 2x finalist, and 6 other previous AAs, and then probably what is the most loaded Freshman group ever seen at a single weight class. I find it hard to believe any other weight has ever had an influx of 5 super-stud freshman like this group in the same season. All 5 of the freshman you listed look like potential 4x AAs and potential champs at some point in their career.

I do believe that 157 is nearly as exciting as this weight, but when we look back at this year's 157 class in 10 years from now, I don't think many of them will be nearly as highly regarded as we think of this 133 class.

[scourge165]

7 hours ago, Truzzcat said:

Byrd: 5,5,1 
Ayala: 2,2
Fugitt: 4th
Frost: 6th
Crookham: 3rd
Van Dee: 7th
Knox: 8th
Seidel
Blaze
Forrest
Davino
Larkin

 

4 of these guys at the very least will not AA this year. I cannot recall a better weight aside from maybe that 2009 157 bracket.

I think I've come around on my opinion on what would happen if Ono Wrestled. I'm not sure he'd be able to get by, even if he took neutral, this weight is too loaded and the TDs are different. The defense is quite a bit different. Finishing on guys who can expose their backs while defending a shot.

I genuinely wouldn't be surprised to see any of the Freshmen, Crookham, or Byrd win it... though I'd lean toward Blaze, Forrest, Davino, Seidel and Crookham. 

[Truzzcat]

37 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

I think I've come around on my opinion on what would happen if Ono Wrestled. I'm not sure he'd be able to get by, even if he took neutral, this weight is too loaded and the TDs are different. The defense is quite a bit different. Finishing on guys who can expose their backs while defending a shot.

I genuinely wouldn't be surprised to see any of the Freshmen, Crookham, or Byrd win it... though I'd lean toward Blaze, Forrest, Davino, Seidel and Crookham. 

I think seeding and draws is honestly going to be crucial, they are all super elite so I think whoever gets a draw against the guys who may be less oppressive to their style so they can have a little more tread on the tires on Saturday has a big edge.

[Truzzcat]

7 hours ago, fishbane said:

Dylan Shawver was 7th in 2024 and the Big Ten champion.  Last year he lost in the R12.

good shout I was the biggest shawver truther coming into this year and he has let me down a bit so I think I was trying to erase him from my memory.

[11986]

11 hours ago, Truzzcat said:

 I cannot recall a better weight aside from maybe that 2009 157 bracket.

 

7 hours ago, BruceyB said:

149* but I gotchu.

2009 157 was stacked too:

157 Jordan Burroughs [1] - Nebraska (5-1) Michael Poeta [2] - Illinois Gregor Gillespie [4] - Edinboro Matt Moley [7] - Bloomsburg 1st: 2nd: 3rd: 4th: 5th: 6th: Jordan Leen [3] - Cornell (4-0) Michael Chandler [6] - Missouri (2-1) 7th: Chase Pami [11] - Cal Poly-SLO (4-2 SV) 8th: Tyler Safratowich [US] - Minnesota

the 149 class of legend was 2008:

149 Brent Metcalf [1] - Iowa (14-8) Bubba Jenkins [6] - Penn State Josh Churella [5] - Michigan J.P. O'Connor [3] - Harvard 1st: 2nd: 3rd: 4th: 5th: 6th: Jordan Burroughs [4] - Nebraska (4-2) Darrion Caldwell [7] - North Carolina State (Med FFT) 7th: Dustin Schlatter [2] - Minnesota (3-2 TB) 8th: Lance Palmer [9] - Ohio State

[Nak21]

Wow! What a weight class! Trying to keep up, what are we at 14? 14 with past AAs or super freshman with lengthy international rap sheets. This is gonna get good Rd2 and  be killer from Quarters on!!  The blood round matches!! Wow!!
Genuinely asking, too lazy to look it all up…how many will be back again the following year to maybe do it all over again?? Blaze, Jax, Seidel, Crookham? Who else??

[fishbane]

38 minutes ago, 11986 said:

 

2009 157 was stacked too:

157 Jordan Burroughs [1] - Nebraska (5-1) Michael Poeta [2] - Illinois Gregor Gillespie [4] - Edinboro Matt Moley [7] - Bloomsburg 1st: 2nd: 3rd: 4th: 5th: 6th: Jordan Leen [3] - Cornell (4-0) Michael Chandler [6] - Missouri (2-1) 7th: Chase Pami [11] - Cal Poly-SLO (4-2 SV) 8th: Tyler Safratowich [US] - Minnesota

the 149 class of legend was 2008:

149 Brent Metcalf [1] - Iowa (14-8) Bubba Jenkins [6] - Penn State Josh Churella [5] - Michigan J.P. O'Connor [3] - Harvard 1st: 2nd: 3rd: 4th: 5th: 6th: Jordan Burroughs [4] - Nebraska (4-2) Darrion Caldwell [7] - North Carolina State (Med FFT) 7th: Dustin Schlatter [2] - Minnesota (3-2 TB) 8th: Lance Palmer [9] - Ohio State

Both of these classes are somewhat retrospectively great.  If you look at the accomplishments of those 149s going into the 2007-2008 season they were not anywhere close to this years 133s.  Metcalf was wrestling in hist first NCAA tournament in 2008 coming off sitting out a year after his redshirt year.  The top returning wrestlers are listed below with their placements before 2008 are listed below.

149: Schlatter (1-3), Churella (RS-8-NQ-2), Lang (RS-R12-4-2),  Palmer (4), O'Connor (5), Fisch (RS-DNQ-5), Jenkins (NQ), Burroughs (NQ), Caldwell (NQ)

ultimately the group would go into win 8 national titles and make another 4 finals appearances, but prior to 2008 NCAA they had won 1 title, 3 finals appearances, and 9 AA placements across 6 wrestlers.  This 133 class currently has 2 titles, 4 finals appearances, and 14 AA placements across ten wrestlers.  The top newcomers are Davino, Larkin, Blaze, and Forrest.  Forrest has made a senior world team,  Blaze and Davino placed top 4 at senior nationals and have beaten former NCAA champs in freestyle.  This exceeds Metcalf’s accomplishments at the time and I don’t think any of those 149s had placed top 4 or better at senior nationals prior to NCAAs in 2008.

[fishbane]

26 minutes ago, Nak21 said:

Wow! What a weight class! Trying to keep up, what are we at 14? 14 with past AAs or super freshman with lengthy international rap sheets. This is gonna get good Rd2 and  be killer from Quarters on!!  The blood round matches!! Wow!!
Genuinely asking, too lazy to look it all up…how many will be back again the following year to maybe do it all over again?? Blaze, Jax, Seidel, Crookham? Who else??

133: Byrd (RS-5-5-R12-inj-1), Ayala (NQ-RS-2-2), Crookham (RS-3-inj)  Frost (RS-6-R12), Van Dee (RS-NQ-7), Fugitt (RS-4), Knox (RS-8), Shawver (NS-NQ-RS-7-R12), Cannon (RS-7-7-NQ-inj-DNQ), Figueroa (RS-NS-1-NQ)
 

Byrd, Ayala, Shawver, Cannon, and Figueroa are done after this year.

[11986]

3 minutes ago, fishbane said:

Both of these classes are somewhat retrospectively great.  If you look at the accomplishments of those 149s going into the 2007-2008 season they were not anywhere close to this years 133s.  Metcalf was wrestling in hist first NCAA tournament in 2008 coming off sitting out a year after his redshirt year.  The top returning wrestlers are listed below with their placements before 2008 are listed below.

149: Schlatter (1-3), Churella (RS-8-NQ-2), Lang (RS-R12-4-2),  Palmer (4), O'Connor (5), Fisch (RS-DNQ-5), Jenkins (NQ), Burroughs (NQ), Caldwell (NQ)

ultimately the group would go into win 8 national titles and make another 4 finals appearances, but prior to 2008 NCAA they had won 1 title, 3 finals appearances, and 9 AA placements across 6 wrestlers.  This 133 class currently has 2 titles, 4 finals appearances, and 14 AA placements across ten wrestlers.  The top newcomers are Davino, Larkin, Blaze, and Forrest.  Forrest has made a senior world team,  Blaze and Davino placed top 4 at senior nationals and have beaten former NCAA champs in freestyle.  This exceeds Metcalf’s accomplishments at the time and I don’t think any of those 149s had placed top 4 or better at senior nationals prior to NCAAs in 2008.

agreed. I was only clarifying that if we're talking about the 149 class that always gets mentioned it's the 2008 group, not '09. 

[Nak21]

4 minutes ago, fishbane said:

133: Byrd (RS-5-5-R12-inj-1), Ayala (NQ-RS-2-2), Crookham (RS-3-inj)  Frost (RS-6-R12), Van Dee (RS-NQ-7), Fugitt (RS-4), Knox (RS-8), Shawver (NS-NQ-RS-7-R12), Cannon (RS-7-7-NQ-inj-DNQ), Figueroa (RS-NS-1-NQ)
 

Byrd, Ayala, Shawver, Cannon, and Figueroa are done after this year.

@fishbane Thank you!

[fishbane]

2 minutes ago, Nak21 said:

@fishbane Thank you!

NP.  So 14 returning AAs and 4-5 notable incoming freshman (Forrest, Blaze, Devino, Larkin, Seidel).  Can’t get all 19 in the bracket at NCAAs because two of them are on the same team,

[MD152]

....message to current HS wrestlers thinking of wrestling 133-141

 "133-141 is on LOCK DOWN for roughly 5-6 years" (of course im factoring on a RS or something else here), does King Kong or Godzilla even AA in 133 or 141

[boconnell]

2 hours ago, fishbane said:

Both of these classes are somewhat retrospectively great.  If you look at the accomplishments of those 149s going into the 2007-2008 season they were not anywhere close to this years 133s.  Metcalf was wrestling in hist first NCAA tournament in 2008 coming off sitting out a year after his redshirt year.  The top returning wrestlers are listed below with their placements before 2008 are listed below.

149: Schlatter (1-3), Churella (RS-8-NQ-2), Lang (RS-R12-4-2),  Palmer (4), O'Connor (5), Fisch (RS-DNQ-5), Jenkins (NQ), Burroughs (NQ), Caldwell (NQ)

ultimately the group would go into win 8 national titles and make another 4 finals appearances, but prior to 2008 NCAA they had won 1 title, 3 finals appearances, and 9 AA placements across 6 wrestlers.  This 133 class currently has 2 titles, 4 finals appearances, and 14 AA placements across ten wrestlers.  The top newcomers are Davino, Larkin, Blaze, and Forrest.  Forrest has made a senior world team,  Blaze and Davino placed top 4 at senior nationals and have beaten former NCAA champs in freestyle.  This exceeds Metcalf’s accomplishments at the time and I don’t think any of those 149s had placed top 4 or better at senior nationals prior to NCAAs in 2008.

Why would you only look at prior accomplishments?  They weren't wrestling that tournament in 2007 anymore than they were wrestling it in 2009 and later.  The prior accomplishments are no clearer a picture than the later accomplishments.  Obviously you need to look at the whole picture.  

[fishbane]

1 minute ago, boconnell said:

Why would you only look at prior accomplishments?  They weren't wrestling that tournament in 2007 anymore than they were wrestling it in 2009 and later.  The prior accomplishments are no clearer a picture than the later accomplishments.  Obviously you need to look at the whole picture.  

That's fair when comparing them to other past groups.  It's not really possibly to make a fair comparison like that with this years 133.  Five years from now sure it's possible.  It's also relevant because many of those guys were not the wrestlers they would later become.  Metcalf beat Sidakov, but he 2008 Brent Metcalf wasn't beating 2021 Olympic champion Sidakov  and Burroughs was far from being a multi time world champ.

What is interesting in making the comparison is how many of those 2008 wrestlers didn't use a redshirt.  Schlatter, Palmer, O'Connor, Burroughs, Jenkins, Caldwell none of them redshirted straight out of high school.  Some of them would use redshirts later.  This year's returning 133s have all used redshirts, some multiple redshirts, and three the free COVID year.  Two are 7th years (Byrd and Cannon) and one is a 6th year (Shawver).  Lang and Churella were the only 5th years at 149 in 2008 and Fish was the only 4th year.  All were returning except Lang and Churella.

[boconnell]

37 minutes ago, fishbane said:

That's fair when comparing them to other past groups.  It's not really possibly to make a fair comparison like that with this years 133.  Five years from now sure it's possible.  It's also relevant because many of those guys were not the wrestlers they would later become.  Metcalf beat Sidakov, but he 2008 Brent Metcalf wasn't beating 2021 Olympic champion Sidakov  and Burroughs was far from being a multi time world champ.

What is interesting in making the comparison is how many of those 2008 wrestlers didn't use a redshirt.  Schlatter, Palmer, O'Connor, Burroughs, Jenkins, Caldwell none of them redshirted straight out of high school.  Some of them would use redshirts later.  This year's returning 133s have all used redshirts, some multiple redshirts, and three the free COVID year.  Two are 7th years (Byrd and Cannon) and one is a 6th year (Shawver).  Lang and Churella were the only 5th years at 149 in 2008 and Fish was the only 4th year.  All were returning except Lang and Churella.

I agree many of them were not the wrestlers they would later become. But I also know they were not the wrestlers they were in 2007 or before.  That's why I think the whole picture is taken, even if we don't have the whole picture yet for this new group.

[BigRedFan]

3 hours ago, boconnell said:

I agree many of them were not the wrestlers they would later become. But I also know they were not the wrestlers they were in 2007 or before.  That's why I think the whole picture is taken, even if we don't have the whole picture yet for this new group.

If you go that "count their whole career, past and future route," I wanted to see how the 2023 133 pound bracket went.

Arujau (4,3,1,1)

RBY (8,1,1,2)

McGee (6,4,3)

Fix (2,2,2,4,2)

Ragusin (5)

Mendez (6,1,1,TBD)

Nagao (5)

Orine (8,8)

Latona (6,7)

Byrd (5,5,1,TBD)

Cannon (7,7)

LaMont (5)

So, 31xAAs by 12 wrestlers, 7 1st place with 2 defending champs still to go, 12 finalists.

Edited January 14 by BigRedFan

[fishbane]

32 minutes ago, BigRedFan said:

If you go that "count their whole career, past and future route," I wanted to see how the 2023 133 pound bracket went.

Arujau (4,3,1,1)

RBY (8,1,1,2)

McGee (6,4,3)

Fix (2,2,2,4,2)

Ragusin (5)

Mendez (6,1,1,TBD)

Nagao (5)

Orine (8,8)

Latona (6,7)

Byrd (5,5,1,TBD)

Cannon (7,7)

LaMont (5)

So, 31xAAs by 12 wrestlers, 7 1st place with 2 defending champs still to go, 12 finalists.

Some of them are wrestling this year (Cannon, Mendez, Byrd) are wrestling this year and could add to this.  Also some of the incoming freshman at 133 have beatenthe champs on that list.  Devino beat Fix at senior nationals last year and Forrest beat Arujau to make the world team last year.