Top Stalling - does anyone else have a problem with this?

[NM1965]

2 hours ago, boconnell said:

Is this a serious answer?

If the bottom guy can't get out, then he must be easy to turn if you're trying to turn him?  You actually believe this?

Well you are the guy arguing that guys should be allowed to ride forever with no turns, aren't you?  My apology that my answer was beyond your power of reading comprehension, I'll try to keep it simple when addressing you in the future. 

Edited November 27, 2025 by NM1965

[NM1965]

21 hours ago, Hammerlock3 said:

People who think the top guy should get hit for stalling more either never wrestled or don't remember what its like. 

I wrestled for 17 years, I think I might know more about the topic than you think. 

[MPhillips]

7 minutes ago, NM1965 said:

I wrestled for 17 years

...Eighteen.

[Hammerlock3]

6 minutes ago, NM1965 said:

I wrestled for 17 years, I think I might know more about the topic than you think. 

its possible.

[NM1965]

16 minutes ago, MPhillips said:

...Eighteen.

So....you think you are 1/17th better than me, eh? 

[ionel]

30 minutes ago, NM1965 said:

I wrestled for 17 years ...

... but 15 years on bottom? 

[boconnell]

1 hour ago, NM1965 said:

Well you are the guy arguing that guys should be allowed to ride forever with no turns, aren't you?  My apology that my answer was beyond your power of reading comprehension, I'll try to keep it simple when addressing you in the future. 

Where did I ever say you should be able to ride forever without turns?  That's a strawman that nobody has suggested.

Do you seriously think that if a guy can't escape, he must be easy to turn?  Is that what you actually believe or were you just saying stuff to try to win a meaningless internet discussion?  I want to believe you know better.

[boconnell]

35 minutes ago, ionel said:

... but 15 years on bottom? 

Bob Dole.

[Hillbilly Jim]

10 hours ago, NM1965 said:

That sounds like a reasonable compromise. Drifting close to FS though. 

Absolutely not.  It takes time to get turns.  Often times you gotta wear that bottom guy down.  Break him.  That takes time.  You can’t reward the bottom guy by letting him out.  Top wrestling will be over if the bottom guy can just sit down there and get let off the hook.  
mat returns are fun.  Guys stuck on their belly while the crowd cheers is fun.  Holding a grown man down against his will is fun.  You guys must hate folkstyle.  

[Caveira]

There is a good reason when you google stallrocci the first item you see is the king top staller from the last several decades.

the master top staller.   Carter himself.   

[ionel]

47 minutes ago, Hillbilly Jim said:

Absolutely not.  It takes time to get turns.  

... but 17 years!  

[boconnell]

1 hour ago, Hillbilly Jim said:

Absolutely not.  It takes time to get turns.  Often times you gotta wear that bottom guy down.  Break him.  That takes time.  You can’t reward the bottom guy by letting him out.  Top wrestling will be over if the bottom guy can just sit down there and get let off the hook.  
mat returns are fun.  Guys stuck on their belly while the crowd cheers is fun.  Holding a grown man down against his will is fun.  You guys must hate folkstyle.  

Yep.  If you are going to let the bottom guy out, then just don't have mat wrestling.  Because once the bottom guy is allowed to just belly out and wait for a release, there will be far less turns.  

[The Kid]

10 hours ago, boconnell said:

Yep.  If you are going to let the bottom guy out, then just don't have mat wrestling.  Because once the bottom guy is allowed to just belly out and wait for a release, there will be far less turns.  

If ThE refs CalLEd sTalLinG coRrEctly.......

[NM1965]

13 hours ago, boconnell said:

Where did I ever say you should be able to ride forever without turns?  That's a strawman that nobody has suggested.

Do you seriously think that if a guy can't escape, he must be easy to turn?  Is that what you actually believe or were you just saying stuff to try to win a meaningless internet discussion?  I want to believe you know better.

I was being intentionally sarcastic. Is there a sarcasm font I should use in the future. Btw, I apologize for my snotty response, I'm not usually that snotty. 

[NM1965]

11 hours ago, Caveira said:

There is a good reason when you google stallrocci the first item you see is the king top staller from the last several decades.

the master top staller.   Carter himself.   

There's an art form to stalling. My results improved tremendously when I learned how to stall correctly (which didn't happen until my last year wrestling). I preferred being aggressive, but that cost me a lot of matches in my career. 

[NM1965]

12 hours ago, Hillbilly Jim said:

Absolutely not.  It takes time to get turns.  Often times you gotta wear that bottom guy down.  Break him.  That takes time.  You can’t reward the bottom guy by letting him out.  Top wrestling will be over if the bottom guy can just sit down there and get let off the hook.  
mat returns are fun.  Guys stuck on their belly while the crowd cheers is fun.  Holding a grown man down against his will is fun.  You guys must hate folkstyle.  

The best part of folkstyle is getting to manhandle the other guy once you get him down, no question about it. The reverse isn't so fun. The guys here don't necessarily want to get rid of mat wrestling, but the question is about addressing wrestlers who just ride and make no attempts to turn.  My suggestion is that since it's easy to fake attempts, that only actual turns should count. The question in my mind then is how long the top guy should be allowed to ride with no successful turn attempts. On the other hand simply removing the riding time point may do the trick, now that I think about it. The only reason to ride, if you can't get riding time, is to work for attempts (or keep the other guy off his feet). 

[NM1965]

14 hours ago, ionel said:

... but 15 years on bottom? 

As A bottom, get it right. 

[PSULou64]

I understand what some of you are saying but I'm not arguing about guys who are breaking down the bottom wrestler repeatedly but can't get a turn. Let's face it once you get to the top guys at any weight turns from top are rare.  I'm also not saying reward bottom guys who just lay there either by letting them up.  I just don't think there is argument for not calling stalling on guys clearly not attempting to break down the bottom wrestler and only ride.

[Hillbilly Jim]

3 hours ago, PSULou64 said:

I understand what some of you are saying but I'm not arguing about guys who are breaking down the bottom wrestler repeatedly but can't get a turn. Let's face it once you get to the top guys at any weight turns from top are rare.  I'm also not saying reward bottom guys who just lay there either by letting them up.  I just don't think there is argument for not calling stalling on guys clearly not attempting to break down the bottom wrestler and only ride.

Of course—that is what the rule basically says.  Refs just need to call it that way.  
 

You may not be arguing against guys that are working aggressively, but several others were arguing for dumb rule changes.  The rules maintain the integrity of folkstyle wrestling.  You don’t change good rules because of poor execution.  And the rules aren’t hard or ambiguous.  It is called quite well at the high school level if you ask me.  educate the refs and make sure they perform or get rid of them.  

[PSULou64]

That's the thing that kind of gets me. It seems to be called much better, in general, at the high school level. The refs seem to not have a problem understanding the rule as it is written and calling it as such. 

[rsotelo]

On 11/26/2025 at 5:11 PM, NM1965 said:

How about this: no riding time point awarded unless a turn is achieved while riding? That should reduce stall rides. 

How about this:  If you can't get out, you give up a point AND you should be hit for stalling.  Wrestling is hard and folkstyle is about control.  I think that top wrestlers should earn a point or EACH minute of riding time earned.

[Cornell Kevin]

so what happens if riding time has been locked up and the top wrestler is doing the o’le 35 mat returns tie breaker ride out we have been accustomed to zzzzzzz through.  At that point they aren’t trying to score, but it won’t be called either.  I just recall wrestling in the late 90s and if you were just hanging on for dear life and not attempting a turn..you had to cut him or get called for stalling. I am not sure when exactly it became ok to to do other wise but I hate the way it is now.