Bernie Sanders capitalistic anti-capitalist

[headshuck]

$95 buys you a ticket to Bernie Sanders’ “anti-capitalism” event to promote his new $25 book “It's Okay To Be Angry About Capitalism.”

[Nailbender]

[Plasmodium]

I hope a I am as passionate and spunky when I'm 93.

[El Luchador]

[El Luchador]

4 hours ago, headshuck said:

$95 buys you a ticket to Bernie Sanders’ “anti-capitalism” event to promote his new $25 book “It's Okay To Be Angry About Capitalism.”

When my youngest graduated from college the commencement speaker carried on about all the catch phrase liberal talking points told the kids to use their careers to help all the Leftists causes then tried to sell us all her book she just published. 

[Plasmodium]

5 minutes ago, El Luchador said:

Pay some now or everything later.

[El Luchador]

7 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

Pay some now or everything later.

Yes because everything the government does is efficient and cost effective. 

[mspart]

NOT!!

mspart

[GreatWhiteNorth]

23 hours ago, El Luchador said:

Yes because everything the government does is efficient and cost effective. 

Sarcasm. Good way for you to vent, but not useful for anybody else in the conversation.

The federal government has been inefficient for many decades. Through both blue and red administrations.

The NEXT question is - except for whining, what are we going to do about it? More promises that aren't kept by more BS politicians?

 

That is exactly what Bernie is trying to address. He's different than the others because he's all about significant change and making it happen NOW.

If you don't agree with Bernie's policies - that's just fine. I understand that. I didn't vote for him either. But I like him. He's honest and no BS. Nobody else is.

We can keep bitchin' around in circles and get nowhere, or we can try to find somebody who fits the bill and puts helping the country above helping themselves (and those that financed their campaigns.)

I don't think Bernie is the guy... but I think Bernie is the guy to listen to, because he's got the right idea - and the right guy may be in the next generation of candidates.

Lord, I hope so. We really need a leader who is about leading instead of being about himself.

[mspart]

13 hours ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

Lord, I hope so. We really need a leader who is about leading instead of being about himself.

Bernie is not the guy.    He is not a leader.   He is loud and that's about it.   He may be a true believer but I'm not sure that is the case.  He's making money off of books and events.  That's what a capitalist does, not a marxist.  But I guess a marxist has to get money to further the goal somehow right?

I agree that we need a leader who is about leading.   That is very true.

mspart

[jross]

Bernie is still Bernie even if he has a little money now.  

[GreatWhiteNorth]

2 hours ago, mspart said:

Bernie is not the guy.    He is not a leader.   He is loud and that's about it.   He may be a true believer but I'm not sure that is the case.  He's making money off of books and events.  That's what a capitalist does, not a marxist.  But I guess a marxist has to get money to further the goal somehow right?

I agree that we need a leader who is about leading.   That is very true.

mspart

Agree that Bernie is not the guy - don't agree with many of his positions. I never voted for him. But I like to listen to politicians who are honest about real change. Most pay it only lip service - and nothing ever changes. I also like U.S. Rep. Dan Crenshaw (R-Texas). Don't agree with a many of his positions either, but he seems honest about calling out the self-serving, circus antics of some of those currently in Congress. Instead of being supported for political reasons by those that should know better, those clowns should be exposed and sent packing. That's a change I'd like to see. Won't fix everything, but throwing the bums out would be a good start.

Marxist, fascist, socialist, etc. are all labels being thrown around to get people angry and distract them from the things that are simple, obvious, and we can all support.

I don't have a problem with politicians making money. We all need to make money - the world runs on money. As long as they aren't taking taxpayer/government money, insider trading, making decisions based on the money they receive from lobbyists (aka 'bought off'), or other underhanded/under the table shenanigans.  Books, events, and the like seem legitimate to me. 

[mspart]

2 hours ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

 Books, events, and the like seem legitimate to me. 

Unless you are a marxist.  That is capitalism and must be avoided by all means.   I agree with most of what you said, except. "Marxist, fascist, socialist, etc. are all labels being thrown around to get people angry and distract them from the things that are simple, obvious, and we can all support."   It should seem obvious, but we have children being indoctrinated into transgenderism and enforced by chemical and physical means including surgery.   And you better not say anything or your kid will be taken away by the state.   This is patently wrong, but there is one side that just doesn't see it that way.  Or they pretend not to see it that way.   There are many other topics that are similar.    That's why I agree with that statement but it cannot happen as we all are now.   No one can agree on what is simple, obvious and something we can all support as of  now.   I suspect we might all agree we need to react with haste and harshness if hostile forces try to do something to us.   But I'm not so sure about that. 

mspart

[headshuck]

Anyone else like Rep. Thomas Massie, Kentucky?

[GreatWhiteNorth]

On 2/3/2023 at 6:58 PM, mspart said:

Unless you are a marxist.  That is capitalism and must be avoided by all means.   I agree with most of what you said, except. "Marxist, fascist, socialist, etc. are all labels being thrown around to get people angry and distract them from the things that are simple, obvious, and we can all support."   It should seem obvious, but we have children being indoctrinated into transgenderism and enforced by chemical and physical means including surgery.   And you better not say anything or your kid will be taken away by the state.   This is patently wrong, but there is one side that just doesn't see it that way.  Or they pretend not to see it that way.   There are many other topics that are similar.    That's why I agree with that statement but it cannot happen as we all are now.   No one can agree on what is simple, obvious and something we can all support as of  now.   I suspect we might all agree we need to react with haste and harshness if hostile forces try to do something to us.   But I'm not so sure about that. 

mspart

You've given (2) examples - let's start there:

1. 1. Transgenderism: I have a co-worker who I worked with for over 20 years who sent out a company-wide email that he was becoming a woman and that we shouldn't be surprised when we saw him wearing dresses to work, etc. I thought his email account had been hacked and went straight to his office to deal with it. Nope - he sent it, it was real. I had absolutely no idea. During our 20+ years of working together, he was great. Kind, patient, fair, helpful, understanding, etc. More of a real cowboy than a village people one. When I think of transgender, I think of him (now her.) Some people didn't accept it well and ridiculed her behind her back - I had no time for that. She is a good person and didn't deserve that. I wouldn't tolerate it because I thought she had the right to make choices and be who she felt she was. I support her 100%. NOW... all that being said, personally I did think it was a little nutty. And it did creep me out, and it still does at some level. But I have to balance my thoughts on who "I am" vs who "she is." I would never make that choice, but at the same time I can support her making that choice. We're all so very different, this just happens to be one of the more extreme examples. I am strongly opposed to anybody who is anti-transgender.
   
   Children? No - I don't think children are equipped to make that choice and shouldn't be allowed to. They can dress and act like their gender of choice, just as any child has always been able to do. And only when they turn 18, as adults, they then have the ability to make their permanent choices. This seems simple, obvious and something we can all support.
   
   The problem here is that the far-left distracts us with nonsense, and the far-right distracts us with equal and opposing nonsense, and we get fired up over very little. Most moderates on both sides are in the same camp.
    
2. Hostile forces: I think most of us are in alignment when it comes to anyone attacking us. That won't be tolerated. But there is that gray area between threats (constantly coming from North Korea, Iran, etc.) and actual hostility. Can't nuke NK because that bozo likes to constantly threaten us with nukes. That would be a bad move. Also, things like "weather balloon" that blew off course - maybe that's true? maybe that's a lie? Dunno. Nobody here knows. Bold moves and conservative moves are both available, but let's not make it something more than it is until we know.  If it's hostile, it is simple, obvious, and something we can all support.

Seems to me we can find common ground. It's the garbage politicians we've voted for who can't seem to make that a priority for them. And those are the ones who's job it is to represent us (instead of representing themselves and their bank accounts.)

[El Luchador]

On 2/3/2023 at 12:04 AM, GreatWhiteNorth said:

Sarcasm. Good way for you to vent, but not useful for anybody else in the conversation.

The federal government has been inefficient for many decades. Through both blue and red administrations.

The NEXT question is - except for whining, what are we going to do about it? More promises that aren't kept by more BS politicians?

 

That is exactly what Bernie is trying to address. He's different than the others because he's all about significant change and making it happen NOW.

If you don't agree with Bernie's policies - that's just fine. I understand that. I didn't vote for him either. But I like him. He's honest and no BS. Nobody else is.

We can keep bitchin' around in circles and get nowhere, or we can try to find somebody who fits the bill and puts helping the country above helping themselves (and those that financed their campaigns.)

I don't think Bernie is the guy... but I think Bernie is the guy to listen to, because he's got the right idea - and the right guy may be in the next generation of candidates.

Lord, I hope so. We really need a leader who is about leading instead of being about himself.

What is 1 thing the government does well, better than any private example. Name 1 agency not politically motivated.

[Plasmodium]

51 minutes ago, El Luchador said:

What is 1 thing the government does well, better than any private example. Name 1 agency not politically motivated.

Clearly medicaid is more efficient.  Can't even be debated since medicaid pays out less for the same procedure than the medical insurance industrial complex.

[BerniePragle]

On 2/3/2023 at 5:47 PM, GreatWhiteNorth said:

Agree that Bernie is not the guy - don't agree with many of his positions. I never voted for him. But I like to listen to politicians who are honest about real change. Most pay it only lip service - and nothing ever changes. I also like U.S. Rep. Dan Crenshaw (R-Texas). Don't agree with a many of his positions either, but he seems honest about calling out the self-serving, circus antics of some of those currently in Congress. Instead of being supported for political reasons by those that should know better, those clowns should be exposed and sent packing. That's a change I'd like to see. Won't fix everything, but throwing the bums out would be a good start.

Marxist, fascist, socialist, etc. are all labels being thrown around to get people angry and distract them from the things that are simple, obvious, and we can all support.

I don't have a problem with politicians making money. We all need to make money - the world runs on money. As long as they aren't taking taxpayer/government money, insider trading, making decisions based on the money they receive from lobbyists (aka 'bought off'), or other underhanded/under the table shenanigans.  Books, events, and the like seem legitimate to me. 

I have beaten that drum on here, and elsewhere, numerous times. 
Unfortunately, what you have said will somehow be construed as a "bunch of Leftist talking points".
I'd say Bernie Sanders is somewhat the Ralph Nader of this generation, though more of a politician and less honest and direct. (Ralph Nader lite?)  Someone who tries to get the American electorate to wake up to the con job being perpetrated on them by pretty much all the scumballs in Washington.
As a second career,  my wife got her actuarial license and worked for a couple of insurance companies.  She said the name Ralph Nader was similar to the name Satan at those insurance companies.  The insurance and financial companies convinced everyone that Ralph Nader was the devil simply because he tried to get the American public to educate themselves in the matters of government,  finances,  insurance, and investments.  This of course was not in the best interests of said powerful companies and politicians.  They do better when the masses are ignorant.  FWIW, I voted for Ralph Nader for president 4 times and have read most of his books. It never occurred to me that he was a hypocrite because he was selling books.  Ralph Nader was not opposed to capitalism,  he was opposed to what he referred to as "cronie capitalism".
In 5, 10, 100 years I believe this period in American history will be seen as one of the greatest con jobs in history. 

"I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country."
-Thomas Jefferson

[mspart]

On 2/4/2023 at 5:41 PM, GreatWhiteNorth said:

You've given (2) examples - let's start there:

1. 1. Transgenderism: I have a co-worker who I worked with for over 20 years who sent out a company-wide email that he was becoming a woman and that we shouldn't be surprised when we saw him wearing dresses to work, etc. I thought his email account had been hacked and went straight to his office to deal with it. Nope - he sent it, it was real. I had absolutely no idea. During our 20+ years of working together, he was great. Kind, patient, fair, helpful, understanding, etc. More of a real cowboy than a village people one. When I think of transgender, I think of him (now her.) Some people didn't accept it well and ridiculed her behind her back - I had no time for that. She is a good person and didn't deserve that. I wouldn't tolerate it because I thought she had the right to make choices and be who she felt she was. I support her 100%. NOW... all that being said, personally I did think it was a little nutty. And it did creep me out, and it still does at some level. But I have to balance my thoughts on who "I am" vs who "she is." I would never make that choice, but at the same time I can support her making that choice. We're all so very different, this just happens to be one of the more extreme examples. I am strongly opposed to anybody who is anti-transgender.
   
   Children? No - I don't think children are equipped to make that choice and shouldn't be allowed to. They can dress and act like their gender of choice, just as any child has always been able to do. And only when they turn 18, as adults, they then have the ability to make their permanent choices. This seems simple, obvious and something we can all support.
   
   The problem here is that the far-left distracts us with nonsense, and the far-right distracts us with equal and opposing nonsense, and we get fired up over very little. Most moderates on both sides are in the same camp.
    
2. Hostile forces: I think most of us are in alignment when it comes to anyone attacking us. That won't be tolerated. But there is that gray area between threats (constantly coming from North Korea, Iran, etc.) and actual hostility. Can't nuke NK because that bozo likes to constantly threaten us with nukes. That would be a bad move. Also, things like "weather balloon" that blew off course - maybe that's true? maybe that's a lie? Dunno. Nobody here knows. Bold moves and conservative moves are both available, but let's not make it something more than it is until we know.  If it's hostile, it is simple, obvious, and something we can all support.

Seems to me we can find common ground. It's the garbage politicians we've voted for who can't seem to make that a priority for them. And those are the ones who's job it is to represent us (instead of representing themselves and their bank accounts.)

You quoted me and then stated your opinion.   I agree with you in regards to children.   But the far left is not in agreement with you and opposes  you with vitriol.   The "don't say gay" bill in FL is the classic example.   The left misnamed the bill on purpose.   The bill was about not teaching sexual anything to K-3 elementary students.   Why was this felt necessary in FL.   Because that is the direction of school districts across the nation.   It is not something that we can all support.   There are many that support and want surgical and chemical "gender affirming care" to minors.   That is just sick, yet, anytime you oppose this, they will pile on.   So I do not agree that "we" can all understand and deplore this.   I'm glad you and I agree on this however.

mspart

 

 

 

[GreatWhiteNorth]

4 hours ago, mspart said:

You quoted me and then stated your opinion.   I agree with you in regards to children.   But the far left is not in agreement with you and opposes  you with vitriol.   The "don't say gay" bill in FL is the classic example.   The left misnamed the bill on purpose.   The bill was about not teaching sexual anything to K-3 elementary students.   Why was this felt necessary in FL.   Because that is the direction of school districts across the nation.   It is not something that we can all support.   There are many that support and want surgical and chemical "gender affirming care" to minors.   That is just sick, yet, anytime you oppose this, they will pile on.   So I do not agree that "we" can all understand and deplore this.   I'm glad you and I agree on this however.

mspart

I see your point. You're right. That was my mistake.

By saying - simple, obvious and something we can all support. I didn't intend to include wackos on the far left and far right. There has always been and will always be plenty of wackos out there. I don't expect that to ever change. When I refer to 'all of us', I'm not strictly referring to 100% of us. I'm not including the loonies. I'm referring to what I believe is the vast majority of the country who are thoughtful and reasonable. Those who, most importantly, are willing to listen and discuss rather than stomp, scream, and shout like children. I believe we significantly outnumber them - they just make a lot more noise.

 

[El Luchador]

On 2/5/2023 at 10:20 AM, Plasmodium said:

Clearly medicaid is more efficient.  Can't even be debated since medicaid pays out less for the same procedure than the medical insurance industrial complex.

You most certainly can debate it. Forcing price controls onto Doctors doesn't result in quality care. The biggest reason medical prices are out of control is massive government regulation.  Forcing hospitals to give care to people who have no intention of paying for it and Forcing everyone else to foot the bill is ridiculous. Health care is in terrible shape because of the government.  The more they do to control it the worse it gets.

[BerniePragle]

1 hour ago, El Luchador said:

You most certainly can debate it. Forcing price controls onto Doctors doesn't result in quality care. The biggest reason medical prices are out of control is massive government regulation.  Forcing hospitals to give care to people who have no intention of paying for it and Forcing everyone else to foot the bill is ridiculous. Health care is in terrible shape because of the government.  The more they do to control it the worse it gets.

Can't disagree with any of this.

[Plasmodium]

3 hours ago, El Luchador said:

You most certainly can debate it. Forcing price controls onto Doctors doesn't result in quality care. The biggest reason medical prices are out of control is massive government regulation.  Forcing hospitals to give care to people who have no intention of paying for it and Forcing everyone else to foot the bill is ridiculous. Health care is in terrible shape because of the government.  The more they do to control it the worse it gets.

You can debate it, but it is self-evident. The share of GDP we spend on health care is fifty percent higher than our peers, who all have single payer systems.  Medicaid administrative costs are a fraction of medical insurance administrative costs.  The ridiculous cost of health care is caused by the pursuit of margins on the payer and provider sides, compounded by the lack of anything resembling a free market in between.  People can't shop medical services and the actual cost is almost irrelevant.

[Plasmodium]

We are about to see the efficiency of our system play out in all it's glory.  The government is going to stop paying for COVID vaccinations.  The price will sky rocket.  For a vaccination funded by the people of our country.

[jross]

On 2/5/2023 at 9:23 AM, El Luchador said:

What is 1 thing the government does well, better than any private example. Name 1 agency not politically motivated.

Plunder.  Waste.  Corruption.  Bureaucracy.  Ponzi schemes.  

Protect our rights and maintain order are some positives.